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You've got it right. If it were not for the draft we probably would have stayed in Vietnam long enough to lose another 58,000 American lives -- for absolutely no good reason.Personally, I wouldn't go, mainly just because I don't believe in violence as a means of solving a problem, at least not in the long term. No matter who the enemy is, us killing them is more likely to give them more reason to want to kill us back, not to make them stop. It might temporarily beat them down into submission, but if we ever want lasting peace in this world it isn't going to come at gunpoint.
I know people aren't big fans of moral relativism, but I think it is kind of hard to determine right from wrong in these situations. In my opinion, killing is killing, no matter what the motivation or supposed justification. They say they're right and we're wrong,and we say the opposite. We're all equal human beings more-or-less, so who can judge which side is correct?
In a way, I do wish there was still a draft though. At least that way it would anger people enough who dislike war so that these conflicts couldn't continue. Instead, the volunteer system allows these wars to be pushed to the back of peoples' minds due to minimal media coverage and little to no personal sacrifice by the average American. Wars simply don't hit home anymore, and I think they should if we are going to go out of our way to wage them.
I was an active Vietnam protester and I can tell you that anger against the draft, which supplied that unnecessary debacle with lives to waste, was the engine that drove the resistance and forced Nixon to end it. The reason Washington was so willing to suspend the draft was awareness that after Vietnam the draft would serve to impede further military adventures -- like the Iraq invasion. Bush could never have invaded Iraq if the draft were still active.
I didn't serve in the ME (Read. Comprehend.)
Our boys who did serve engaged and killed terrorists who might otherwise have committed heinous crimes against ordinary Americans. Seems to me not getting kidnapped, raped, tortured, blown up, burned alive or having your head cut off with a dull knife is a considerable benefit.
You have one serious case of paranoia.
Considering the nature and the purpose of our military actions in the Middle East, the imposing question is what motivates those who volunteer to participate in it?
Exactly those same things that motivated your father and two brothers.
My father and his two brothers joined the army at a time when the U.S. was attacked by a nation which had formidable military resources. Based on all I've read and what I've been told, they endured much physical suffering and mental agony to defend us. If they hadn't made that sacrifice our Nation would have been invaded and occupied.
Bullshit. There is no evidence that Germany, Japan or Italy had any intention of invading the continental US. Germany battered the UK with bombs and rockets but was still unable to carry out the invasion they had planned. So they invaded Russia and lost.
I regard every American who volunteered to fight the Japanese and the Germans as genuine heroes.
So do I. But no more so than any other soldier that has fought for our country.
The World Trade Center was attacked by nineteen suicidal Middle Eastern shahids who represented an enemy which has absolutely no capability of invading the U.S. or effecting any aggression on this Nation other than occasional surreptitiously destructive ("terrorist") incidents implemented from within -- essentially a federal police matter.
You overlook the fact that they obviously didn't need that capability to cause us great destruction and death. Or do you just not think we deserve to be protected as long as we are not invaded. Is there any doubt that they would use WMD on us given a chance? Did you miss the fact Iraq had used chemical weapons and were thought to playing with biological ones?
While I do not disregard the bravery of those troops who demonstrate traditional warrior virtues on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact remains none of it was or is necessary or in any way productive. These people have volunteered and continue to volunteer to waste themselves.
Wrong. The truth is that you are willing to slander those who are fighting for you and undermine their efforts for no better reason than you are delusional enough think that your views on warfare and politics are the only correct ones.
To learn now that the remains of these wasted Americans are being quietly dumped into landfills is in undeniable fact a symbolic statement of the reality which is contemporary American military policy.
Why would you care when you display such disrespect yourself?
Considering the nature and the purpose of our military actions in the Middle East, the imposing question is what motivates those who volunteer to participate in it?
Exactly those same things that motivated your father and two brothers.
My father and his two brothers joined the army at a time when the U.S. was attacked by a nation which had formidable military resources. Based on all I've read and what I've been told, they endured much physical suffering and mental agony to defend us. If they hadn't made that sacrifice our Nation would have been invaded and occupied.
Bullshit. There is no evidence that Germany, Japan or Italy had any intention of invading the continental US. Germany battered the UK with bombs and rockets but was still unable to carry out the invasion they had planned. So they invaded Russia and lost.
I regard every American who volunteered to fight the Japanese and the Germans as genuine heroes.
So do I. But no more so than any other soldier that has fought for our country.
The World Trade Center was attacked by nineteen suicidal Middle Eastern shahids who represented an enemy which has absolutely no capability of invading the U.S. or effecting any aggression on this Nation other than occasional surreptitiously destructive ("terrorist") incidents implemented from within -- essentially a federal police matter.
You overlook the fact that they obviously didn't need that capability to cause us great destruction and death. Or do you just not think we deserve to be protected as long as we are not invaded. Is there any doubt that they would use WMD on us given a chance? Did you miss the fact Iraq had used chemical weapons and were thought to playing with biological ones?
While I do not disregard the bravery of those troops who demonstrate traditional warrior virtues on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact remains none of it was or is necessary or in any way productive. These people have volunteered and continue to volunteer to waste themselves.
Wrong. The truth is that you are willing to slander those who are fighting for you and undermine their efforts for no better reason than you are delusional enough think that your views on warfare and politics are the only correct ones.
To learn now that the remains of these wasted Americans are being quietly dumped into landfills is in undeniable fact a symbolic statement of the reality which is contemporary American military policy.
Why would you care when you display such disrespect yourself?
While I do not disregard the bravery of those troops who demonstrate traditional warrior virtues on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact remains none of it was or is necessary or in any way productive.
You've got it right. If it were not for the draft we probably would have stayed in Vietnam long enough to lose another 58,000 American lives -- for absolutely no good reason.Personally, I wouldn't go, mainly just because I don't believe in violence as a means of solving a problem, at least not in the long term. No matter who the enemy is, us killing them is more likely to give them more reason to want to kill us back, not to make them stop. It might temporarily beat them down into submission, but if we ever want lasting peace in this world it isn't going to come at gunpoint.
I know people aren't big fans of moral relativism, but I think it is kind of hard to determine right from wrong in these situations. In my opinion, killing is killing, no matter what the motivation or supposed justification. They say they're right and we're wrong,and we say the opposite. We're all equal human beings more-or-less, so who can judge which side is correct?
In a way, I do wish there was still a draft though. At least that way it would anger people enough who dislike war so that these conflicts couldn't continue. Instead, the volunteer system allows these wars to be pushed to the back of peoples' minds due to minimal media coverage and little to no personal sacrifice by the average American. Wars simply don't hit home anymore, and I think they should if we are going to go out of our way to wage them.
I was an active Vietnam protester and I can tell you that anger against the draft, which supplied that unnecessary debacle with lives to waste, was the engine that drove the resistance and forced Nixon to end it. The reason Washington was so willing to suspend the draft was awareness that after Vietnam the draft would serve to impede further military adventures -- like the Iraq invasion. Bush could never have invaded Iraq if the draft were still active.
A clue as to what?Personally, I wouldn't go, mainly just because I don't believe in violence as a means of solving a problem, at least not in the long term. No matter who the enemy is, us killing them is more likely to give them more reason to want to kill us back, not to make them stop. It might temporarily beat them down into submission, but if we ever want lasting peace in this world it isn't going to come at gunpoint.
I know people aren't big fans of moral relativism, but I think it is kind of hard to determine right from wrong in these situations. In my opinion, killing is killing, no matter what the motivation or supposed justification. They say they're right and we're wrong,and we say the opposite. We're all equal human beings more-or-less, so who can judge which side is correct?
In a way, I do wish there was still a draft though. At least that way it would anger people enough who dislike war so that these conflicts couldn't continue. Instead, the volunteer system allows these wars to be pushed to the back of peoples' minds due to minimal media coverage and little to no personal sacrifice by the average American. Wars simply don't hit home anymore, and I think they should if we are going to go out of our way to wage them.
You haven't a clue.
Considering the nature and the purpose of our military actions in the Middle East, the imposing question is what motivates those who volunteer to participate in it?
Exactly those same things that motivated your father and two brothers.
My father and his two brothers joined the army at a time when the U.S. was attacked by a nation which had formidable military resources. Based on all I've read and what I've been told, they endured much physical suffering and mental agony to defend us. If they hadn't made that sacrifice our Nation would have been invaded and occupied.
Bullshit. There is no evidence that Germany, Japan or Italy had any intention of invading the continental US. Germany battered the UK with bombs and rockets but was still unable to carry out the invasion they had planned. So they invaded Russia and lost.
I regard every American who volunteered to fight the Japanese and the Germans as genuine heroes.
So do I. But no more so than any other soldier that has fought for our country.
The World Trade Center was attacked by nineteen suicidal Middle Eastern shahids who represented an enemy which has absolutely no capability of invading the U.S. or effecting any aggression on this Nation other than occasional surreptitiously destructive ("terrorist") incidents implemented from within -- essentially a federal police matter.
You overlook the fact that they obviously didn't need that capability to cause us great destruction and death. Or do you just not think we deserve to be protected as long as we are not invaded. Is there any doubt that they would use WMD on us given a chance? Did you miss the fact Iraq had used chemical weapons and were thought to playing with biological ones?
While I do not disregard the bravery of those troops who demonstrate traditional warrior virtues on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact remains none of it was or is necessary or in any way productive. These people have volunteered and continue to volunteer to waste themselves.
Wrong. The truth is that you are willing to slander those who are fighting for you and undermine their efforts for no better reason than you are delusional enough think that your views on warfare and politics are the only correct ones.
To learn now that the remains of these wasted Americans are being quietly dumped into landfills is in undeniable fact a symbolic statement of the reality which is contemporary American military policy.
Why would you care when you display such disrespect yourself?
Stating this;
While I do not disregard the bravery of those troops who demonstrate traditional warrior virtues on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact remains none of it was or is necessary or in any way productive.
Is in no way disrespectful.
In no way.
Were any WMDs found in Iraq?
No.
One can support the troops, while at the same time bashing up the govt policy that sees them deployed to useless and stoopid wars...Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan but three.
Germany and Japan were always going to get around to attacking America eventually.
I doubt you have the vaguest idea of what communism is and I'm quite sure you couldn't define it without the aid of a dictionary or Google.Do you never tire of the Communist rhetoric?
First, our government had no business fraudulently sacrificing the lives and limbs of our sons and brothers in the cause of aiding the South Vietnamese. In spite of what you might be brainwashed to believe, we are not the world's police force. I lost a beloved cousin in Vietnam and there was no good reason for forcing him to go there and be killed. The civil war in Vietnam was no more a concern of ours than was our Civil War the concern of the South Vietnamese.Forty years later you're still trying to beg the question on Vietnam and still disrespecting those who served and those who sought to aid the South Vietnamese people.
I've known quite a few decorated Vietnam veterans who would debate that with you. And if you still believe your service in Vietnam was serving your country I'd like to know how that worked. What did the North Vietnamese ever do to the U.S.? And what could they do to us?Anger at the draft? I saw a lot more abject cowardice, fear and panic at the idea of serving the country.
If the draft had been active and the sons of millions of ordinary Americans would be placed in harm's way by that wholly unjustifiable act of criminal aggression you may rest assured the Congress would not have permitted Bush to slip that crime past the voters. Because he was in command of what fundamentally is a mercenary Army, rather than a conscripted Peoples' Army, that elitist fop bastard was able to do what he wanted with them. They weren't drafted -- they volunteered to place themselves at the disposal of that corporatist sonofabitch.We didn't need a draft to invade Iraq. Not even close.
Read and comprehend the Duelfer Report.
May 5, 1945: Japanese Balloon Bomb Kills 6 in Oregon
Made of rubberized silk or paper, each balloon was about 33 feet in diameter. Barometer-operated valves released hydrogen if the balloon gained too much altitude or dropped sandbags if it flew too low.
In all, the Japanese released an estimated 9,000 fire balloons. At least 342 reached the United States. Some drifted as far as Nebraska. Some were shot down.
Some caused minor damage when they landed, but no injuries. One hit a power line and temporarily blacked out the nuclear-weapons plant at Hanford, Washington.
But the only known casualties from the 9,000 balllons and the only combat deaths from any cause on the U.S. mainland were the five kids and their Sunday school teacher going to a picnic.
There were many on both sides of the political divide who had the good sense to realize how beneficial the draft is to America. The important thing is it is conducted fairly, such as via public lottery, and with careful scrutiny of exclusions such as Rush Limbaugh's (easily removed) pilonidal cyst.You've got it right. If it were not for the draft we probably would have stayed in Vietnam long enough to lose another 58,000 American lives -- for absolutely no good reason.Personally, I wouldn't go, mainly just because I don't believe in violence as a means of solving a problem, at least not in the long term. No matter who the enemy is, us killing them is more likely to give them more reason to want to kill us back, not to make them stop. It might temporarily beat them down into submission, but if we ever want lasting peace in this world it isn't going to come at gunpoint.
I know people aren't big fans of moral relativism, but I think it is kind of hard to determine right from wrong in these situations. In my opinion, killing is killing, no matter what the motivation or supposed justification. They say they're right and we're wrong,and we say the opposite. We're all equal human beings more-or-less, so who can judge which side is correct?
In a way, I do wish there was still a draft though. At least that way it would anger people enough who dislike war so that these conflicts couldn't continue. Instead, the volunteer system allows these wars to be pushed to the back of peoples' minds due to minimal media coverage and little to no personal sacrifice by the average American. Wars simply don't hit home anymore, and I think they should if we are going to go out of our way to wage them.
I was an active Vietnam protester and I can tell you that anger against the draft, which supplied that unnecessary debacle with lives to waste, was the engine that drove the resistance and forced Nixon to end it. The reason Washington was so willing to suspend the draft was awareness that after Vietnam the draft would serve to impede further military adventures -- like the Iraq invasion. Bush could never have invaded Iraq if the draft were still active.
Yet several on the left talked about reinstating it.
At least nine members of Congress have sons or daughters who have served in Iraq, according to the U.S. Senate Library. A tenth, Sen. John McCain, faces the possibility that his youngest son, Jimmy, will go there this year.
A clue as to what?Personally, I wouldn't go, mainly just because I don't believe in violence as a means of solving a problem, at least not in the long term. No matter who the enemy is, us killing them is more likely to give them more reason to want to kill us back, not to make them stop. It might temporarily beat them down into submission, but if we ever want lasting peace in this world it isn't going to come at gunpoint.
I know people aren't big fans of moral relativism, but I think it is kind of hard to determine right from wrong in these situations. In my opinion, killing is killing, no matter what the motivation or supposed justification. They say they're right and we're wrong,and we say the opposite. We're all equal human beings more-or-less, so who can judge which side is correct?
In a way, I do wish there was still a draft though. At least that way it would anger people enough who dislike war so that these conflicts couldn't continue. Instead, the volunteer system allows these wars to be pushed to the back of peoples' minds due to minimal media coverage and little to no personal sacrifice by the average American. Wars simply don't hit home anymore, and I think they should if we are going to go out of our way to wage them.
You haven't a clue.
That's a topic which could occupy another very long thread. In keeping with the topic at hand the fact remains our Nation was attacked and we were threatened by two enemy forces which together had the ability to defeat our military and occupy us.A clue as to what?You haven't a clue.
Tell it to Germany and japan.
We were attacked by fifteen Saudis, one Lebanese, one Egyptian, and two from the UAE. None from Iraq and none from Afghanistan. Yet there is no shortage of Americans who believe our aggressions in Iraq and Afghanistan are justified.Which side is correct? Gee we had 3000+ innocent civilians killed which started the war in Afghanistan, I wonder which side was right?
If that were true, how do you account for so many who think being "there" is something to be proud of -- in spite of the fact they had no moral right to be "there" killing and oppressing people who never did a goddam thing to them or to their country?No one dislikes war more than the soldier who has been there, thus again you haven't a clue and probably never will.
That's a topic which could occupy another very long thread. In keeping with the topic at hand the fact remains our Nation was attacked and we were threatened by two enemy forces which together had the ability to defeat our military and occupy us.A clue as to what?
Tell it to Germany and japan.
We were attacked by fifteen Saudis, one Lebanese, one Egyptian, and two from the UAE. None from Iraq and none from Afghanistan. Yet there is no shortage of Americans who believe our aggressions in Iraq and Afghanistan are justified.Which side is correct? Gee we had 3000+ innocent civilians killed which started the war in Afghanistan, I wonder which side was right?
If that were true, how do you account for so many who think being "there" is something to be proud of -- in spite of the fact they had no moral right to be "there" killing and oppressing people who never did a goddam thing to them or to their country?No one dislikes war more than the soldier who has been there, thus again you haven't a clue and probably never will.
I dislike war just as much as does any soldier who has been "there" and has the good sense to realize there was no good reason for what he endured. I've never been hit by a car but I'm quite aware it's worth all the effort it takes to avoid.
You know you asswipes that ignore the facts just piss me off. Fact is we were attacked by a group who had trained and whose leader was being protected by the Government in Afghanistan, Doesn't matter if they were Mexican or Canadian the guy we wanted was in Afghanistan.
And unless you've been out there in the fight you have nothing to fucking say about how any soldier feels.
Richard Nixon, a Republican, ended the Vietnam war, started by a democrat, when I was 17. I was prepared to go. I used to tell people back then that if I got drafted I would go.
I'd go still but I doubt they need a 58 year old.
Doesn't matter where he was on 9-11-01, it only matters where he was when the US executed him,Where was he on 9-11-01 dumbass. I've already stated many times that once we lost track of him at Bora Bora we should have pulled out because he was either dead in one of the caves or in Pakistan.
