Do you seriously believe

[koshergrl]

There's gonna be a lot of divine judgement going around for everyone who "did it" in other than the missionary position for reproductive purposes only.

This is of course, just your opinion of your god.

Again, arguing to points that aren't being made. You people want to make it about religion. It isn't about religion. You have to do that or you have no excuse for exerting government control over religion..

But this topic isn't about religion. It's about why homosexuals can't and shouldn't marry each other..and it has nothing to do with religion.




I haven't seen one argument that it should be rejected on the base of "God doesn't like it". So try really hard to be honest and stop muddying the water by pretending it's about religion. It isn't.

GOOD. No more quotes from religious texts, religious leaders, etc. That was easy.

As soon as you quit making them, sure.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In other news, dead horses continue to be beaten, and the same people are talking the same shit they've always talked.

If Del can marry a woman, my sister should be able to marry her dearly beloved Anita. If I can marry a man, Brian (her gay friend) should be able to marry his dearly beloved Noel.

And Infidel - again. Why are you whining? What do you care what I think, what my perceptions are? You think gays are second-class citizens who chose to be gay. And? So? That's what you think. C'est la vie.

Del is - allegedly - a male. Your sister isn't. You are - allegedly - a female. Brian isn't. And this constant faux argument you people keep throwing up of "someone you love" is just hurting your cause. The law says nothing about "the right to marry someone you love", so you're claiming a so-called "civil right" that doesn't exist.

The law does not sanction relationships because "it's what the person wants", or "we're in loooooove!" Nuns don't want to marry mortal men; they want to consider themselves the Brides of Christ. Fine, but the government's not going to start issuing marriage licenses for Sister Bernadette and Jesus of Nazareth because of that.

Please, for the love of God, would you endlessly juvenile, narcissistic liberals grow the fuck up and realize that everything isn't about YOU and the incredibly boring emotions you constantly twitter on about?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Since you are an advocate, I will answer you.

No, I don't. It's all the other shiteous talk that goes hand-in-hand with the objection. Read above (fudge packer, etc). The belief that somebody could choose to be gay, and by virtue of having chosen, they are viewed as less than. The fact that it is fine with them that my sister cannot marry. She is not entitled. She is not straight, therefore, she is not deserving. That they are to be identified by their sexual preference and automatically perceived as perverts ... there are just so many lies, and I grow weary of being accused of all manner of things because essentially? I love my sister.

Your sister can marry in exactly the same way you can. You cannot marry someone of the same sex any more than she can. In what way is the law being unfairly applied to her? If she tries to access the exact same marriage laws that everyone else uses, ie. marrying someone of the opposite sex, and is not allowed to because she is a lesbian, then you come talk to us.

No one is being "identified by their sexual preference" . . . aside from their obsessive need to identify THEMSELVES by it. I can't marry someone of the same sex any more than she can, and neither can anyone else of any sexual preference. No singling out necessary.

As to how people perceive them . . . well, here's where you finally get close to the REAL heart of the issue. What advocates of homosexual "marriage" REALLY want is to legislate other people's perceptions and opinions for them. They want everyone to think their behavior is perfectly normal, and they think that passing laws declaring it normal is the first step toward that. Only problem is, you can't legislate people's opinions, nor should you.

Personally, I get tired of being accused of all manner of things because you love your sister and somehow think that should affect how I view the world. I think we'd all appreciate it if you'd find some way a little less intrusive into other people's lives to work out your little personal family drama.

Do you want to marry a woman? No? Then your point is invalid. Here is a bunny with a pancake on its head.

Well, I'm glad you realize that your "argument" has as much relevance as a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head. The first step to you sounding like an intelligent human being is for you to recognize how much you DON'T sound like one now.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Is it worth it, to any of you. 8,000,000 young people have left the church because of how said church treats gay people. Is it worth it? Sure, you can be right. You can even have the last word. But look at the cost.

Only a liberal would think it's better to be wrong and popular.

You miss the point of Christianity every bit as much as you miss the point of marriage laws.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How can you say I'm wrong about most Christians? You can't possibly speak for most Christians, just like your mom can't speak for most GLBT.

Nope, but I can promise you this.... I have NEVER heard, no not once, heard a christian that I know EVER say they hated gays.... NEVER!


Your assumptions about me were wrong BTW.
Just sayin'

Dude, do you think they have to say those exact words? You think all the negativity isn't shining through loud and clear? I know a fair number of Christians who love and accept gays. And if this isn't your shoe, then ffs don't wear it! I am talking to people who can't even believe that there are Christian GLBT people. Who think that gays are perverts, and it's the first step in a slippery slope to all other perversions. Like being gay is a gateway to complete immorality. That shit is talked to death all day, every day here and so I KNOW that even if hate is too strong a word? There are plenty of other ugly words which do apply.

Basically, all you've just said is "I'm going to call anything that disagrees with me hate. Don't bother me with your facts and your evidence, because I refuse to hear anything except that I'm right and my opinion is the only morally valid one!"

No matter how many words you dress it up with, your position is that of a child throwing a screaming tantrum.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My favorite.

Well, thank you for clarifying for us which lie out of all the lies you cling to and endlessly parrot you like the best.

Not that anyone asked.

I won't even bother explaining to you how many ways your bullshit is bullshit, since I'm well aware that your entire worldview consists of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "I'm right! Everyone else is wrong! I'm morally superior! You disagree with me, so you're evil! Lalalala!"

I'm sure Jesus is used to being lied about and used falsely to propagate false doctrine. And He's very forgiving, I hear.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, I'm not proposing that we just keep marching along that path. You want to get rid of government in education? Take your kids out of government schools and do whatever you can to help you neighbors do the same. Sooner or later the government won't have the power to control it anymore.

But you seem to advocate a different tact, one that puts the government in charge of enforcing morals. That is something I cannot abide. A government with enough power to enforce morals is a government powerful enough to define them for its own benefit.

Not at all. I don't think government should enforce morals. I don't object to homosexual marriage on a moral basis. I object to it on the basis that it isn't marriage when two homosexuals reject the favored construct for raising children, but insist we all pretend they are doing the exact same thing as married heteros.

They reject the construct. They don't want to be a part of it. That's fine, they have the right to do that..but in rejecting that, it means we don't just close our eyes and say "ok ok, you're married anyway". When you reject something, you don't get to force people to pretend you are participating. If you were offered a cush job, and rejected it for a lower paying, harder job...should we be forced to pay you at the rate of the cush job and provide you with all the benefits?

Nope. You made your choice. If you change your mind, it's right there. But it's crap to pretend that they're being "forced" to live by anybody else's standards. They reject the standard...but they are attempting to force us to give them the benefits of the construct they don't want to participate in. It's ridiculous, and has nothing to do with morality, except that I guess it's a sign of a moral person to accept the consequences of their choices and actions.

Married gay people or two non-married gay people raising a child aren't insisting "we all pretend they are doing the exact same thing as married heteros." They are just raising their kids the same way a divorced mother, a widowed father, a couple raising their nieces and nephews after a tragedy, grandparents rearing their grandchildren, OCTOMOM, and all sorts of other legally recognized family units do it.

Gay family units are not rejecting the construct, they are embracing it.

Nice attempt at diversion, but we're not talking about people just quietly going on about their lives here. I know homosexual "marriage" advocates just LOVE conflating "what two people do in their own home behind closed doors" with going to the ballot box, the legislature, and ultimately the courts and demanding that the laws be changed to suit them, but they are NOT the same, and it is the latter we're talking about, not the former.

As much as you'd like to insist that by refusing to change the laws to officially equate homosexual "marriage" with heterosexual marriage is somehow marching into private homes and dragging gay couples out, it isn't. It's not even the same as giving a tin shit what people do in their homes at all, which - just for the record - the vast majority of conservatives don't. We'd be mightily obliged, in fact, if they were just quietly going on about their lives without bothering anyone. We should be that fucking lucky.

But what they ARE doing is, in fact, marching out into public and demanding changes in the law to say that what they are doing is exactly the same as a heterosexual marriage. That most definitely DOES constitute demanding that everyone else agree with them. Don't even try it on with us to pretend that making laws in favor of something is not granting societal approval of that action.

And no, they're not "embracing the construct", since what you've conveniently ignored is that "the construct" in question is a nuclear family with a man and a woman, legally married to each other and raising their offspring together. There is no way for two men or two women or any other combination to "embrace that construct".

I will never understand why anyone thinks lying and misrepresenting is a path to convincing anyone that their position is right. The fact that you need to lie about it automatically tells us that it's not only crap, but that YOU KNOW it's crap.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nobody denies them the right to have children and to raise them as they please.

In fact, nobody is denying them a right at all. They are choosing to reject marriage. And that is fine..but it's bs to force us to call them "married" when they chose not to marry. They aren't the same as a married couple, this is not the structure that is ideal that we as a society seek to protect and promote.

You do know that a mod here is married to another woman, right? And Ellen and Portia are married. There are thousands of legally wed marrieds in the USA.

You do know how little respect conservatives have for laws forced on the people by fiat, against their expressed wishes, right? Yeah, that's the ticket, wave around illegitimate, illegally-imposed laws and tell us how society is all different now, and so we should just accept it. That'll work. Look what great success it's had in settling the abortion question, after all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nobody denies them the right to have children and to raise them as they please.

In fact, nobody is denying them a right at all. They are choosing to reject marriage. And that is fine..but it's bs to force us to call them "married" when they chose not to marry. They aren't the same as a married couple, this is not the structure that is ideal that we as a society seek to protect and promote.

You do know that a mod here is married to another woman, right? And Ellen and Portia are married. There are thousands of legally wed marrieds in the USA.

So? If it's a done deal, I wonder why we're having this convo..

Oh, because it isn't legal in most states.

I thought it was because, in the strictest sense, it's not legal AT ALL.

I must have missed the point where the mayors of cities were granted the ability to declare something legal solely on their own hook. And last time I checked, conservatives have been disputing the legality of laws established by activist courts for decades.

I will never understand what there is in history to make leftists think that simply declaring something legal and all discussion closed is going to settle anything. They don't recognize laws they don't like when they've been legally passed, so I can't imagine why they think we're going to recognize laws we don't like that have no claim to legitimacy at all. It's not like we ever have.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You do know that a mod here is married to another woman, right? And Ellen and Portia are married. There are thousands of legally wed marrieds in the USA.

So? If it's a done deal, I wonder why we're having this convo..

Oh, because it isn't legal in most states.

Not the point. Your marriage as a construct argument doesn't hold water because there are states and countries where it IS legal.

Yeah, they barged in and illegally claimed that everything was different, so that utterly erases the existence of all of human history before that point. It never happened. The way BDPoop wants to see the world is now officially the way things have always been, since time immemorial.

Make a note of that, and throw out all your history books. BDPoop and her compatriots have officially declared all that to be fiction.

Good luck with that approach, Einstein. It's worked so well in the past.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Is it supposed to be impressive, or some sort of newsflash, that you "can quote the Bible too"? We were already aware that even Satan can quote Scripture, so you're a bit behind on that particular news story.

I do always stand in breathless awe of the hubris it takes for someone to memorize three verses out of context from a religion they don't profess and then proclaim themselves an expert and start preaching to believers about how they should be practicing their faith.

You might as well start teaching men how to jack off correctly, because they've been doing it wrong all this time, while you're at it.

 

[BDBoop]

In other news, dead horses continue to be beaten, and the same people are talking the same shit they've always talked.

If Del can marry a woman, my sister should be able to marry her dearly beloved Anita. If I can marry a man, Brian (her gay friend) should be able to marry his dearly beloved Noel.

And Infidel - again. Why are you whining? What do you care what I think, what my perceptions are? You think gays are second-class citizens who chose to be gay. And? So? That's what you think. C'est la vie.

Del is - allegedly - a male. Your sister isn't. You are - allegedly - a female. Brian isn't. And this constant faux argument you people keep throwing up of "someone you love" is just hurting your cause. The law says nothing about "the right to marry someone you love", so you're claiming a so-called "civil right" that doesn't exist.

The law does not sanction relationships because "it's what the person wants", or "we're in loooooove!" Nuns don't want to marry mortal men; they want to consider themselves the Brides of Christ. Fine, but the government's not going to start issuing marriage licenses for Sister Bernadette and Jesus of Nazareth because of that.

Please, for the love of God, would you endlessly juvenile, narcissistic liberals grow the fuck up and realize that everything isn't about YOU and the incredibly boring emotions you constantly twitter on about?

Loving v Virginia

 

[BDBoop]

Marriage is already legal in the USA, and after this, the SCOTUS will decide just like they did in Loving v Virginia, so pancaked bunny it is.

 

[Sunni Man]

BDBoop, I believe that you have stated that you are a Christian? Correct??

If you are; then why are you defending homosexuality?

Which is clearly against what the Bible teaches, and contrary to God's laws.

 

[BDBoop]

BDBoop, I believe that you have stated that you are a Christian? Correct??

If you are; then why are you defending homosexuality?

Which is clearly against what the Bible teaches, and contrary to God's laws.

Because it doesn't add up. The Bible does not support the teachings of Christ. HE never said anything against it.

And Christ came to free us from the Law.

 

[koshergrl]

Good grief, do you think that means we're now free to violate all the commandments?

What about adultery?

Not that it matters. The religion aspect of it is the pro-homosexual hang up, not the pro-nuclear family one.

 

[BDBoop]

Good grief, do you think that means we're now free to violate all the commandments?

What about adultery?

Not that it matters. The religion aspect of it is the pro-homosexual hang up, not the pro-nuclear family one.

Which commandment was on gays again.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Bible does not support the teachings of Christ.

What??

 

[koshergrl]

But, just because you brought it up

""Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

 

[koshergrl]

Good grief, do you think that means we're now free to violate all the commandments?

What about adultery?

Not that it matters. The religion aspect of it is the pro-homosexual hang up, not the pro-nuclear family one.

Which commandment was on gays again.

Adultery, probably.