Do you remember Vietnam on TV?

[Katzndogz]

Most here in the US see Nam as a history lesson, one that is being repeated in Afghanistan.
Images affecting memory? Well of course there is some since memory fades and audio/visual recordings don't. Nam was the first war that a minority group was able to pressure politicians into a policy change of great magnitude and defeat the industrial complex and the never ending war for industry.

Afghanistan is nothing like Viet Nam. There is no war against Afghanistan. The war is against fundamentalist islam. Afghanistan is merely a theater in that war. As is New York or any other US city. As is every aircraft. If we are still comparing Afghanistan or Iraq to Viet Nam, I have to agree with Al Quaeda. We didn't learn our lessons. The embassy bombings didn't teach us. Nor either the 1993 or 2001 attacks in New York. Bombing the Cole failed to instruct. The torture of our people in Libya didn't work. Al Quaeda must think we are either the hardest headed people in the world or the most easily deluded. Maybe Iran is right it would take a nuclear bomb. That might not even work.

 

[konradv]

I remember later on Nixon having a plan, the many protests, the Kent state shootings, and lots of mixed TV coverage. We were always winning, then losing, then winning, same BS, another time. Friends wrote and sent me Polaroids I still have of their Nam exploits, screwed up some of them, others survived well in and out of the military. I served 67 to 69 and even though I volunteered for Nam ended up in another remote but safer place. (I stupidly (?) wanted to form my own opinion) Before the service we all waited for the draft paper, teenage boys then didn't watch the news and those who tell you Cronkite lied are repeating the nonsense of revisionists ideologues, mostly chickenhawks. We called them draft dodgers, but lots were draft dodgers then. Cars and girls, ain't that what life's about for teenage boys - American Graffiti. Country Joe and the Fish was often played in our barracks but we were the lucky ones. 'Be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box.' A few of my HS buddies did. Check youtube or PBS documentary below. I find it kinda funny when I read the revisionist nonsense of the right, we were young dumb and full of ... and ready to do our duty as Americans - that the place was a corrupt hell hole only some people like an Eisenhower or others who served knew. The rest live in Rambo fantasyland even today. Everyone can be brave from their couch.

American Experience | PBS | Vietnam Online

The Hidden War In Vietnam - The Big Picture - YouTube

Viet Nam Vet, SF Medal of Honor recipient on CBS Evening News with Katie Couric 25 March 2009 - YouTube

Battle of Long Tan ABC TV - 17 Aug 2006 - Vietnam War - YouTube

now if the liberal kennedy hadn't started the war and the liberal johnson escalated it, we wouldn't have had this mess.

Eisenhower started the involvement. Just sayin', let's be accurate.

 

[konradv]

Most here in the US see Nam as a history lesson, one that is being repeated in Afghanistan.
Images affecting memory? Well of course there is some since memory fades and audio/visual recordings don't. Nam was the first war that a minority group was able to pressure politicians into a policy change of great magnitude and defeat the industrial complex and the never ending war for industry.

Afghanistan is nothing like Viet Nam. There is no war against Afghanistan. The war is against fundamentalist islam. Afghanistan is merely a theater in that war. As is New York or any other US city. As is every aircraft. If we are still comparing Afghanistan or Iraq to Viet Nam, I have to agree with Al Quaeda. We didn't learn our lessons. The embassy bombings didn't teach us. Nor either the 1993 or 2001 attacks in New York. Bombing the Cole failed to instruct. The torture of our people in Libya didn't work. Al Quaeda must think we are either the hardest headed people in the world or the most easily deluded. Maybe Iran is right it would take a nuclear bomb. That might not even work.

You can say the same thing about Viet Nam. Just substitute Communism for Islam. There was no war against Viet Nam. The war was against international communism. Viet Nam was merely a theater in the war. SEE?

 

[usmcstinger]

When I think about Viet Nam these are the images that come to mind.

View attachment 23736 View attachment 23737 View attachment 23738

Click picture for larger version.

Do you know truth about the last 2 pictures? Read the link below.
The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
In taking that picture," Adams later told Parade magazine, "I had destroyed [Loan's] life. For General Loan had become a man condemned both in his country and in America because he had killed an enemy in war. People do this all the time in war, but rarely is a photographer there to record the act."
Adams accepted Loan's explanation that the man he shot was a Viet Cong captain who had murdered several civilians.
Years later, when Loan, who lost a leg during the war, was running a pizza parlor in suburban Washington, D.C., Adams visited him.
"He told me, 'You were doing your job, and I was doing mine,' " Adams told Parade.
Despite efforts to deport him, Loan lived out his life in Virginia, dying of cancer in 1998. "Photographs, you know, they're half-truths," Adams said a day after Loan's death.
Often asked if he had it to do over, the photographer said: "If it happened again, I'd probably take the picture again -- it's my job."


As Nick Ut, the man who snapped this Pulitzer Prize winning photo, said: “If the Communists had only stayed in North Vietnam” he said,“this never would have happened.” But our leftwing journalists’ Orwellian memory effectively filtered out Ut’s observation, leaving the picture to speak not for the victims of communism but for the left.
Despite the photo’s insinuations and claims by the left, these children were not victims of an American napalm attack. North Vietnamese troops and some Viet Cong units had launched an attack on Trang Bang, successfully cutting the road that ran through the village, forcing South Vietnamese troops to launch a counter attack. The use of napalm was delayed until the third day of the battle so as to give civilians a chance to escape the battle zone.The Historic ‘Napalm Girl’ Pulitzer Image Marks Its 40th Anniversary - ABC News
Nick Ut’s Iconic Napalm Girl Photo | Photo This & That

 

[JakeStarkey]

Check stinger's source. The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
Gerard Jackson (economic editor)
BrookesNews.Com
Monday 28 January 2008
http://brookesnews.com/index.html Trail leads nowhere.

Stinger's final paragraph needs better sourcing.

 

[konradv]

When I think about Viet Nam these are the images that come to mind.

View attachment 23736 View attachment 23737 View attachment 23738

Click picture for larger version.

Do you know truth about the last 2 pictures? Read the link below.
The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
In taking that picture," Adams later told Parade magazine, "I had destroyed [Loan's] life. For General Loan had become a man condemned both in his country and in America because he had killed an enemy in war. People do this all the time in war, but rarely is a photographer there to record the act."
Adams accepted Loan's explanation that the man he shot was a Viet Cong captain who had murdered several civilians.
Years later, when Loan, who lost a leg during the war, was running a pizza parlor in suburban Washington, D.C., Adams visited him.
"He told me, 'You were doing your job, and I was doing mine,' " Adams told Parade.
Despite efforts to deport him, Loan lived out his life in Virginia, dying of cancer in 1998. "Photographs, you know, they're half-truths," Adams said a day after Loan's death.
Often asked if he had it to do over, the photographer said: "If it happened again, I'd probably take the picture again -- it's my job."


As Nick Ut, the man who snapped this Pulitzer Prize winning photo, said: “If the Communists had only stayed in North Vietnam” he said,“this never would have happened.” But our leftwing journalists’ Orwellian memory effectively filtered out Ut’s observation, leaving the picture to speak not for the victims of communism but for the left.
Despite the photo’s insinuations and claims by the left, these children were not victims of an American napalm attack. North Vietnamese troops and some Viet Cong units had launched an attack on Trang Bang, successfully cutting the road that ran through the village, forcing South Vietnamese troops to launch a counter attack. The use of napalm was delayed until the third day of the battle so as to give civilians a chance to escape the battle zone.

My analysis of the second picture still stands. It was a civil war that shouldn't have been involved in. Whatever the reason for the killing, it was a summary execution of the kind that would have been considered a war crime, if it were a Nazi officer and an underground partisan.

As for communists staying in the north, that presumes there weren't many already living in the south. The war/insurgency was going on long before main elements of the NVN army took to the field. As a matter of fact, it was the US involvement that brought them in.

 

[there4eyeM]

I remember many, many lies from military and government on both sides of the conflict. It was a ridiculous war for the US to fight. It was ridiculous of the VC and N. Vietnam to sacrifice so much so unnecessarily.

The only people I don't remember lying were those who were resolutely and constantly against the war.

 

[there4eyeM]

"It was a ridiculous war for the US to fight."

In this way, it is like Afghanistan and Iraq. We could also add "foolish".

 

[Papawx3]

Dear All

I am trying to find out if anyone clearly remembers the television footage from The Vietnam War as the event was unfolding? Did any TV footage stick in peoples minds or have photographs now taken over our memory of the war?


All your comments are welcome

Thanks Ross

Man, now you're making me feel really, really old.
I don't have to remember it on TV.
I remember it in person.

 

[Rossuk]

Hi Konradv

Thanks for your reply, I was just thinking about how it can be difficult to remember events clearly when images like these are constantly in the media. But like you say it must be hard to forget any of it if you were there.

Would you be interested in discussing the Polaroid’s you saved? Or are they too personal?

Thanks Ross

 

[usmcstinger]

Check stinger's source. The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
Gerard Jackson (economic editor)
BrookesNews.Com
Monday 28 January 2008
http://brookesnews.com/index.html Trail leads nowhere.

Stinger's final paragraph needs better sourcing.

I added 2 more sources. Obviously, you never did any research in regard to the photos. You just accepted the left wing lies.

The only thing you know about Combat in Vietnam is you never experienced it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Check stinger's source. The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
Gerard Jackson (economic editor)
BrookesNews.Com
Monday 28 January 2008
http://brookesnews.com/index.html Trail leads nowhere.

Stinger's final paragraph needs better sourcing.

I added 2 more sources. Obviously, you never did any research in regard to the photos. You just accepted the left wing lies. The only thing you know about Combat in Vietnam is you never experienced it.

You act like a child because I chided you on the poor sourcing? Really?? It's your job, stinger, not mine to make your narrative. GTFU.

 

[Oldguy]

Hi Konradv

Thanks for your reply, I was just thinking about how it can be difficult to remember events clearly when images like these are constantly in the media. But like you say it must be hard to forget any of it if you were there.

Would you be interested in discussing the Polaroid’s you saved? Or are they too personal?

Thanks Ross

There are photographic images, and then there are real images burned into the mind which cannot be so easily deleted.

During the time I was there, I carried a disposable Instamatic just about everywhere I went and took something like 500 pictures. Each is a story unto itself, but each also calls up images which play through my mind like a video made just yesterday. By looking at the photographs in chronological order, I can remember just about every detail of my time in Vietnam. And, I have them in chronological order because I sent the film home to be developed, then the pictures were sent back to me for captioning, which included the dates and places, then returned home once again to Mom for saving.

Those images crossed the Pacific three times, which seems cumbersome, but the end result is a record of my tour of duty which has withstood the ravages of time and a fading memory. When I couple those with every single, solitary letter I wrote home from the war, also in order, not much has been forgotten, in spite of the intervening years and the other images I've seen since.

I will be forever indebted to my Mom for her diligence in keeping my letters and photographs intact until I came home, even though she knew I might not.

 

[Trajan]

Believe it or not, but VietNam was actually fought in black and white

I remember each newscast (there were only three and they lasted a half hour) would have footage. Most was guys getting off a helicopter, some patrol type stuff....not a lot of "look at the dead bodies"

A lot of the really gross stuff was in still photographs

In spite of right wing revisionist history, Cronkite was great

Revisionist history like the NVA and NLF getting crushed during and after TET?

On topic, thats what I remember too, choppers on LZs, infantry walking line formations etc. nothing epic. They did recite body counts though, big time, until it became unfashionable...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Cronkite and Ernie Pyle should have traded places.

 

[Trajan]

In fact, after France fell at Dien Bien Phu, Eisenhower picked up the military training and supplies side of propping up a pro-West government under the Diems. The pragmatic Cold Warrior, Kennedy, increased that assistance, supported the development of Spec Ops, and widened the American involvement. An aside: I find that Nixon's and Obama's involvements in Vietnam and Afghanistan parallel in several ways.

Our neo-cons cannot get it into their heads that we can change another country without massive treasure and manpower involved and with the aid of significant allies.

Your ignorance is showing again and you always seem to save it for a thread like this- Cabot lodge ( chosen personally by jfk) as ambassador, got deim assassinated, his hands are bloody as hell, deim and he knocked heads because, lodge wanted him to run the country like a western democracy , deim told him that would not work, Kennedy chose to accept his advice in the end and let deim go down, any , any chance of the south remaining free from the north died right there.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When I think about Viet Nam these are the images that come to mind.

View attachment 23736 View attachment 23737 View attachment 23738

Click picture for larger version.

Do you know truth about the last 2 pictures? Read the link below.
The stories behind the pictures that defined the Vietnam War
In taking that picture," Adams later told Parade magazine, "I had destroyed [Loan's] life. For General Loan had become a man condemned both in his country and in America because he had killed an enemy in war. People do this all the time in war, but rarely is a photographer there to record the act."
Adams accepted Loan's explanation that the man he shot was a Viet Cong captain who had murdered several civilians.
Years later, when Loan, who lost a leg during the war, was running a pizza parlor in suburban Washington, D.C., Adams visited him.
"He told me, 'You were doing your job, and I was doing mine,' " Adams told Parade.
Despite efforts to deport him, Loan lived out his life in Virginia, dying of cancer in 1998. "Photographs, you know, they're half-truths," Adams said a day after Loan's death.
Often asked if he had it to do over, the photographer said: "If it happened again, I'd probably take the picture again -- it's my job."


As Nick Ut, the man who snapped this Pulitzer Prize winning photo, said: “If the Communists had only stayed in North Vietnam” he said,“this never would have happened.” But our leftwing journalists’ Orwellian memory effectively filtered out Ut’s observation, leaving the picture to speak not for the victims of communism but for the left.
Despite the photo’s insinuations and claims by the left, these children were not victims of an American napalm attack. North Vietnamese troops and some Viet Cong units had launched an attack on Trang Bang, successfully cutting the road that ran through the village, forcing South Vietnamese troops to launch a counter attack. The use of napalm was delayed until the third day of the battle so as to give civilians a chance to escape the battle zone.The Historic ‘Napalm Girl’ Pulitzer Image Marks Its 40th Anniversary - ABC News
Nick Ut’s Iconic Napalm Girl Photo | Photo This & That

Loan should have shot the photographer

Cronkite should be buried near Hanoi

 

[JakeStarkey]

In fact, after France fell at Dien Bien Phu, Eisenhower picked up the military training and supplies side of propping up a pro-West government under the Diems. The pragmatic Cold Warrior, Kennedy, increased that assistance, supported the development of Spec Ops, and widened the American involvement. An aside: I find that Nixon's and Obama's involvements in Vietnam and Afghanistan parallel in several ways.

Our neo-cons cannot get it into their heads that we can change another country without massive treasure and manpower involved and with the aid of significant allies.

Your ignorance is showing again and you always seem to save it for a thread like this- Cabot lodge ( chosen personally by jfk) as ambassador, got deim assassinated, his hands are bloody as hell, deim and he knocked heads because, lodge wanted him to run the country like a western democracy , deim told him that would not work, Kennedy chose to accept his advice in the end and let deim go down, any , any chance of the south remaining free from the north died right there.

Trajan, are you willfully ignorant or do you it because you are stupid? Nothing you wrote supercedes an iota of "The pragmatic Cold Warrior, Kennedy, increased that assistance, supported the development of Spec Ops, and widened the American involvement." Diem's removal was part of American planning and operations. Are you a fool by choice?

 

[Trajan]

In fact, after France fell at Dien Bien Phu, Eisenhower picked up the military training and supplies side of propping up a pro-West government under the Diems. The pragmatic Cold Warrior, Kennedy, increased that assistance, supported the development of Spec Ops, and widened the American involvement. An aside: I find that Nixon's and Obama's involvements in Vietnam and Afghanistan parallel in several ways.

Our neo-cons cannot get it into their heads that we can change another country without massive treasure and manpower involved and with the aid of significant allies.

Your ignorance is showing again and you always seem to save it for a thread like this- Cabot lodge ( chosen personally by jfk) as ambassador, got deim assassinated, his hands are bloody as hell, deim and he knocked heads because, lodge wanted him to run the country like a western democracy , deim told him that would not work, Kennedy chose to accept his advice in the end and let deim go down, any , any chance of the south remaining free from the north died right there.

Trajan, are you willfully ignorant or do you it because you are stupid? Nothing you wrote supercedes an iota of "The pragmatic Cold Warrior, Kennedy, increased that assistance, supported the development of Spec Ops, and widened the American involvement." Diem's removal was part of American planning and operations. Are you a fool by choice?

Being called ignorant by you is actually a compliment IMHO. Thx.

The deim removal was a disaster, the reasoning behind his assassination went down as I described, we did not plan it and the nod was last minute and reluctant, but to rfks credit he advised against it, stop googling and pick up a few books.

 

[Bill Angel]

I respected Cronkite, because you were supposed to; hell, everyone did. There was no other version of the news.

I guess I wanted to hear the news the way he presented it too. After all, like most guys my age, I carried a 2"x 3" card in my wallet that said 1-A.

As was said, most of the film was helicopters and USO shows. The things that stick out were still photos.

The thing I remember most about the CBS newscasts about the Vietnam war was the body counts. The broadcasts were always emphasizing that US troops were killing a lot more of the enemy than the casualties being inflicted on US forces. I think that the ratio was something like 5 or 10 to 1 ( 5 or 10 enemy troops killed for each US soldier killed). The body count ratios stayed that way until we lost the war.