CDZ Do you consider a country free when 62% of its people are afraid to express an opinion? Simple Yes or NO please.

[pknopp]

Being free to publicly say you hate this group of people or that group of people without any sort of push back is not the sign of a free country.

Free speech means people have the right to tell you what you said was stupid

Which is fine. Free speech does NOT mean people have the right to take your livelihood, drag you through the courts, harass you and your family, and make you fear for your lives because they think you're stupid.

If you think all anyone is talking about in this thread is something saying, "No, you're wrong and your opinion is stupid", then you haven't been paying attention for several years now. People aren't afraid to speak their minds because someone might disagree with them; they're afraid to speak their minds because it can destroy your life.

Your employer can fire you for just about any reason they want.

If you post some racist crap on line under your own name then your employer may very well lose business and yes he can fire you for that.

And you can call the cops if someone is harassing you. You may even be able to get a restraining order.

There have always been societal limits on speech.

Take the N word for example. It used to be you could call every person with a tan a N@#$er. Now it's societally unacceptable in most public places.

So you can still say what you want but why kick a hornet's nest if you don't have to? It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

To make common sense mandatory? Well that would be cool.

 

[Mac1958]

It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

As a passionate advocate for freedom of expression, our most liberal value, this kind of sentiment truly scares me.

 

[konradv]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

NO.

A simple 'yes' or 'no' question seems to be an odd choice for a forum that's supposed to be about debate.

 

[Blues Man]

It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

As a passionate advocate for freedom of expression, our most liberal value, this kind of sentiment truly scares me.

You can say whatever you want

Where in the Constitution does it state you can say whatever you want with no consequences?

If you walk into a Black Panthers rally and start yelling "White Power" you get what you get and it's 100% your own fault

 

[Mac1958]

It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

As a passionate advocate for freedom of expression, our most liberal value, this kind of sentiment truly scares me.

You can say whatever you want

Where in the Constitution does it state you can say whatever you want with no consequences?

If you walk into a Black Panthers rally and start yelling "White Power" you get what you get and it's 100% your own fault

You're not forced to issue consequences. That's your choice.

You could instead choose engage and defeat the other person in the arena of ideas. That's the point of freedom of expression.

Being judge, jury and executioner makes a mockery of the idea of freedom of expression. It is authoritarian, and sure as hell not liberal.

 

[Blues Man]

It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

As a passionate advocate for freedom of expression, our most liberal value, this kind of sentiment truly scares me.

You can say whatever you want

Where in the Constitution does it state you can say whatever you want with no consequences?

If you walk into a Black Panthers rally and start yelling "White Power" you get what you get and it's 100% your own fault

You're not forced to issue consequences. That's your choice.

You could instead choose engage and defeat the other person in the arena of ideas. That's the point of freedom of expression.

Being judge, jury and executioner makes a mockery of the idea of freedom of expression. It is authoritarian, and sure as hell not liberal.

I said nothing about issuing consequences.

I don't condone violence and never have.

But I also am not stupid enough to go to a KKK rally and shout Black Lives Matter

 

[Mac1958]

It's called common sense and it's too bad we can't pass a law making it mandatory

As a passionate advocate for freedom of expression, our most liberal value, this kind of sentiment truly scares me.

You can say whatever you want

Where in the Constitution does it state you can say whatever you want with no consequences?

If you walk into a Black Panthers rally and start yelling "White Power" you get what you get and it's 100% your own fault

You're not forced to issue consequences. That's your choice.

You could instead choose engage and defeat the other person in the arena of ideas. That's the point of freedom of expression.

Being judge, jury and executioner makes a mockery of the idea of freedom of expression. It is authoritarian, and sure as hell not liberal.

I said nothing about issuing consequences.

I don't condone violence and never have.

But I also am not stupid enough to go to a KKK rally and shout Black Lives Matter

This goes far deeper than a KKK rally. Cancel Culture has infected every part of our society, and Americans are afraid to speak their minds, or even just "say the wrong thing".

AMERICANS.

That won't do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

of course it is.

People can CHOOSE whether or not so say what they want.

When choosing to say something generic and benign can lead to losing your job and having your family get death threats, that doesn't sound like much of a choice or especially free.

Everything you do has consequences.

You are free to say what you want and no one can prevent you from saying it.

That whooshing noise is the point going right over your head.

You keep trying to tell us that freedom is comprised of the ability to mouth off to the firing squad before they shoot. By that standard, the people who were sentenced to the gulags under the Soviet Union were free; the people in Cambodia under Pol Pot were free; the people who live in China today are free.

The freedom of speech that our Founders envisioned, that the United States was founded to protect and guarantee, was more than just "no one can stop me from claiming a Pyrrhic victory". The whole purpose of the American Revolution and the US Constitution was for people to be able to speak their minds and act on their beliefs . . . AND THEN CONTINUE LIVING THEIR LIVES.

Certainly choices have consequences, but all consequences are not the same, and not all of them should be accepted merely as "the price of doing business". If someone wants to disagree with me, or my friends and relatives want to shun me, or my boss chooses to fire me for what I say at work, those are all reasonable consequences arising out of their own freedom to speak and to act on their beliefs. But harassing me, igniting a media smear campaign against me, firing me for things I say on my own time, threatening me or my family, or even physically attacking me are NOT "just the consequences of your choices", simply to be accepted as "part of freedom". They are the antithesis of freedom, even though enacted by private citizens rather than the government. Know how I can tell? Because all of those things are actually against the law, for starters.

You like to think you have some sort of tough, purist stance on the First Amendment by saying that only direct government action is truly an infringement on freedom, and "you just need to be brave and take the destruction", or some such nonsense. But the government has far more obligation to our First Amendment freedoms than merely declining to arrest us for speaking. Its very purpose for existing is to enforce the laws that protect us from excessive and harmful actions by others. I would contend that inaction on - and even outright endorsement of - the most egregious examples of cancel culture by government entities is as much an abrogation of the First Amendment as jailing journalists for writing exposes would be. I further contend that cancel culture would not have gotten to the extreme it has if that inaction/endorsement had not taught people that the rights of those they dislike could be disrespected with impunity.

So no, this society we're living in today is not freedom, and the narrow definition of freedom you want to cling to is not what the United States was created for.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course not. Between the hyper-partisan political environment we're in, PC, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture, I can't blame anyone for keeping their mouths shut. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all American values, and we're going in exactly the opposite direction.

Not on the internet ...people say what they think, and some....

As long as they're anonymous, sure. But if your name is on the screen and you say the wrong thing, you could be the next target.

Agree.

But I was brought up by my parents, not to discuss politics or religious differences at the dinner table with guests, and at work with coworkers, etc.... So I had a real PC upbringing.... And life was actually good and peaceful, and dems and repubs and protestants and Catholics and Jews and Buddhist all got along...

The internet, has changed all of that.... And not for the good...imho.

I do not think avoiding topics while at work as PC.

And the whole "Don't talk politics or religion" at the table thing has been practiced long before PC was even a thing

The problem is, these days you can lose your job for what you say when you're not at work.

No you can lose your job for the what you post on line. you can say whatever you want and not get fired if you're smart enough to not post it on line

If you're not smart enough to use an alias on line that's on you.

So your idea of freedom of speech is to only do it in certain places and ways, while hiding your identity? You call that freedom, do you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

of course it is.

People can CHOOSE whether or not so say what they want.

using that logic, nazi germany was free. hell, using that logic, the inmates of the death camps were "free".

right up until they were dead.

No one is getting gassed in this country for saying what they want.

No one is getting arrested

Talk about a shitty comparison

So the great freedom of America is only to not be overtly dragged off to camps, is it? Hey, your life is destroyed, but at least you're not in a gulag. That's the ideals our Founders fought a revolution for? Might as well not have bothered, then.

I was responding to a ridiculous comparison to Nazi Germany.

And the first amendment protects you from the government so you really can't be thrown in prison for saying anything barring threats or inciting riots

The only thing ridiculous here is your absurd notion that as long as you can get the words out before you're killed, you have freedom of speech. If you don't like hearing your nonsense taken to its logical conclusion, that's YOUR problem, not anyone else's.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one is getting gassed in this country for saying what they want.

No one is getting arrested

Talk about a shitty comparison

Folks are getting murdered and beaten for wearing a red baseball cap. Put a Trump bumper sticker on your car at your own peril.

Right, no one is getting arrested...for assault, looting, arson or any of dozens of other felonies.

Is it freedom that I won't get arrested for saying what I think, if the people who beat me to death for saying it don't get arrested either?

Quite an assumption.

In other words, you know it isn't freedom, but you don't want to say it because it means you were wrong.

 

[Cecilie1200]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

of course it is.

People can CHOOSE whether or not so say what they want.

And get the crap beat out of them if they say an UNAPPROVED thing. Get real.

Yeah OK

Did you see how many kids died this weekend???? You need to get the super glue off your eyelashes.

So all that was the result of political speech?

Are you saying that there are roaming bands of though and speech police killing people in the streets now?

Wear a MAGA hat to a Black Lives Matter protest. I dare you.

Does that answer your question?

I don't wear political slogans on my clothes. Never did Never will.

Why would you go to a BLM protest if you don't believe in their cause anyway?

If you want to try to get a rise out of people by doing that then you get to deal with the consequences.

There is no law stopping you so you are free to do it.

Once again the constitution only protects you from the government not from other people

For someone who keeps trying to present himself as a tough, manly man who's ready to speak his mind at the cost of everything and sneer at anyone so cowardly as to demand a safe and peaceful society for their freedoms, you certainly spend a lot of time weaseling around and dodging questions.

"I have complete freedom, because I just stay within the lines they draw and don't do anything to piss them off. If your freedom of speech is interfered with, it's your own fault for saying and doing the wrong things in the wrong place."

You are finished having the privilege of being noticed by me.

 

[lg325]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

no

 

[2aguy]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

No....and if Harris wins, it will just be the beginning. They are already allowing violent joe biden voters who have been burning, looting, beating and murdering Americans for 6 months, out of jail and they are dismissing the charges.........antifa and blm are now the new kkk/brown shirts of the democrat party.

 

[Correll]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New Poll: 62% Say the Political Climate Prevents Them from Sharing Political Views

A new Cato Institute/YouGov survey finds that self‐censorship is on the rise. 62% say the political climate prevents them from saying things they believe because others might find them offensive.

www.cato.org

No....and if Harris wins, it will just be the beginning. They are already allowing violent joe biden voters who have been burning, looting, beating and murdering Americans for 6 months, out of jail and they are dismissing the charges.........antifa and blm are now the new kkk/brown shirts of the democrat party.

Yep. I was jus thinking that things will get much worse if they win. It will be a signal to turn up the shit even more.