Do We Need Religion?

[AVG-JOE]

one is either an atheist or a theists

there is no in-between

Can there not be a spiritual realm we know nothing about which we call 'spiritual' for lack of a better term?

-Joe

if you don't know about it, you can't call it anything

Sure I can. I don't know anything about giving blow-jobs but I can call them fantastic...

Incomplete knowledge doesn't mean I don't have a right to be wrong in my beliefs!

-Joe

 

[JBeukema]

You know that they exist, That is knowing something about them. You might not have complete, gnostic knowledge about them, but that's not what you said

 

[AVG-JOE]

You know that they exist, That is knowing something about them. You might not have complete, gnostic knowledge about them, but that's not what you said

Literalist!

 

[JBeukema]

You know that they exist, That is knowing something about them. You might not have complete, gnostic knowledge about them, but that's not what you said

Literalist!

Oh, you meant 'know about' in the sense of 'understand'.. I thought you meant it as in 'know of'...


you must speak more clearly

 

[amiam*]

[

JB I have here 5 quotes by Einstein. I found them at Collected Quotes from Albert Einstein

Here are the 5.
"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."

He explained this in the conte4xt of physics explaining the proverbial 'mind of god'

"I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice." (disliked quantum mechanics)

Again, one need not be atheist to use easily understood idoms or images. Einstein had personal issues excepting the Uncertainty Principle and elements of Chaos Theory. he was human, and he had his moments of weakness like us all.



Again, he spoke often of what he meant by 'religion' Much like Russel and others, Einstein made the error of using common language to be understood, which inadvertently led to misinterpretations and confusion in simple minds like yours,
"



It is misrepresentations like yours that he was referring to in the quotation i cited.

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

-Albert Einstein

Wiki:

Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality....

It is a sort of philisophical deism

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views." Albert Einstein Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God?

Belief is hyper personal. It is Einstein's belief the led him to postulate the warping of space near massive gravitational bodies. Thus he preserved the "sanctity" of light. Physics to him was a religious experience.

 

[JBeukema]

Issac Newton,

Start watching at about 10 minutes in

 

[Baron]

Yes, we need a religion!

 

[JBeukema]

No. Religion glorifies ignorance and is detrimental to progress and the improvement of the human condition on the grand scale

 

[Al Gunn]

Yes, we need a religion!

I agree, we need religion so that simpletons like baron won't get scared of things they can't explain.

 

[Baron]

The Man In The Hilltowns

"I am reminded, from time to time, of a man who lived with almost nothing, up in the hill towns of the Catskill Mountains. He lived in a shack on a farm, that afforded him a meager cost of living. And very little else. He worked in construction for as long as he needed and could budget $100.00 over a month's time. He did not take food from anyone and did not complain of anything. A middle aged man of about 50.

I am reminded of the wisdom of his experiences he subtly affirmed with each conversation. They were neither reaching nor replacing nor condescending. They were more a reciprocation, digested into his mind and soul, and recycled into a view far less common. Reciprocated in a compassionate candidness that one would initially find intimidating. As if to convey things of yourself to him, would find you suddenly less noble and honorable and righteous and wealthy. As if to suddenly realize that self-worth is worthless, if what we've gained in materialism, would sustain us, from it's loss. That we would have to walk at least a mile away, in shame, before we realize that we've always had more than enough to survive, even with nothing.

I am reminded that what we harbor in our spirit is forever. That it will get us through anything, as he would tell you. This man in the hill towns. He would tell you that we should perhaps live vicariously through him. With the least amount of responsibility, except to ourselves and our spiritual well being. He would tell us that love is everything, even in it's isolation. He would tell us to walk a mile in his life, perhaps towards his shack. That this exercise would afford us enough humility to bring us back to good, away from the charms that measure the successes of our lives. In what we have gained or lost. Instead of the success of his wisdom, which abounds so freely and graciously within his world, in his evaluation of ours.

I am reminded, daily, of the things I have, of the things I've lost and the things that will stay with me forever. As I live and breath, it's only a short walk in the park sometimes, that equates into hours of sleep affording me years of rejuvenation. Or meeting that elusive man, holding a mirror to my face, my having pondered over such senseless, unimportant things. This man in the shack in the hilltowns, not far from me, that for many years I haven't seen...

Anne Marie xxx Copyright 2009

********

For me, realizing one's self covers a broader ground for me. This man has never spoken of God or of any faith, yet he carries a greater reception to this wisdom than most people in my life, because he actually lives as he speaks. The kind of profound humility which brings us back to good. I believe I am fortunate in this respect, as well. And it's because of my faith. You might say he's somewhat of a Buddhist as is reflected in his love for nature, and well grounded self-perception. I have no idea of his faith, except for the wisdom that would typically come of it.

I have a great deal of respect for Buddhism. I don't see a conflict of interest necessarily with that and genuine Christianity. Divine Providence and Nirvana are both in tune to ourselves and what lies beyond conventional perceptions of life, and the universe. But with me, there's far more tangibility based on blind faith and infinity, which in itself is difficult for us to perceive, but nonetheless some of us are driven by a higher power. And it's not religion. It's not man-made.

There is a difference between institutionalized religion, and genuine faith. Jesus was here to remind us of our inherent nature. Something that existed well before His teachings, before His conception. But for me, that nature is of God. His father. He was the divine messenger.

I truly believe this, not as a protocol or ultimate act of faith in Catholicism, despite my being a cradle Catholic, as I am not bound by protocols incepted by individuals who themselves, all too often use religion subversively, but because I've had my experiences, shall we say. And I know some pretty wonderful people.

I know full well that our souls live on, that we have a soul to begin with. I know the fresh fragrance of roses, and a perfectly etched Oak Tree in ice on my window in an otherwise cold old musty basement that hadn't been lived in for over a year, in a moment of grief over my father's death. In remembering the type of wonderful man he was. In just missing him, that moment and being overwhelmed by such things. Such sudden unexplainable fragrances and art etched in ice, from thin air on a window I had just cleaned dry. I love trees, especially oak trees and maples.

I know the feeling of being overwhelmed with absolute love. With a sense of well being, indescribable, incomparable to anything else I've ever experienced. Including the most passionate of moments. As deeply as I have loved someone, as deeply enamored, this feeling surpasses all common exhilaration. And it's the Grace of God that I feel.

If I'm delusional, then I would be in the good company of many world renowned physicians, many scientists, many physicists who have concluded no other possibility than there being a continuance in our existence. The we are souls surrounded in a body of flesh. Our souls live on.

I know this full well, and I know full well, who God is and what is expected of us, despite our free will. This is the perpetual challenge. Self-preservation through self-regulation. The concept of core value predicated on our spiritual reality. Not physical reality. I know that we have the ultimate responsibility of self-preservation, as He and only He created us, no matter the process of evolution. There is no conflict of interest there. It was part of His master plan, yet exclusive to a separation of species. There is nature, and there is us.

We are judged by our capacity to balance our existence with nature, by accommodating nature. Not in reverse form. We are challenged to not reach for things we don't need, no matter it's abundance. And with such abundance we are obligated to share our degree of wealth with those who have yet to be challenged. It'll be there turn next time. At some time. But indeed we must pass the legacy of our existence in such fashion. We have this obligation to motivate even if just one individual to such higher ground. And you will begin to understand, who God is.

He is not responsible nor accountable for our self-destruction, because those who are befallen to such evil, will find paradise with Him. You will come to know what this means as well. We are inherently good people, born of His breath. His love well within our grasp, and hopefully deep inside of us, as I have felt. He watches those who have taken to mission a mockery of His glory. And He waits for a reprise to such innocence. He has waited relentlessly for these people, as He would leave no-one behind but they will be left behind. I assure you. I have come to know such things, because my level of perception became increasingly acute and comprehensive when my father died and my mom soon thereafter. That was many years ago. It has since reached new heights. As if all these things that are happening in this world, I have foreseen in some form or another, though lacking in any definition. I believe many have and simply don't understand what's happening.

I have been shown things that will bring anyone to tears, both in it's magnificence, and it's horror. All quite profound, all quite real. Things that are soon to come. I can feel a sense of uneasiness simply laying down and talking to Him as if a neighbor, a friend. Something is happening, beyond common knowledge. And we are not all prepared to face this.

If God is non-existent, which to me is as ridiculous as denying my own existence, as I live and breath in love and despair, then we have lived for nothing. We are here for no reason. This is not logical. We view the world exclusively through our own minds, as children who view other children, not yet understanding such a connection, yet having a closer view of God, in their innocence. We are all very separate individuals who are spiritually connected. As being in close proximity of the cloaked presence of evil is quite vivid to us. We sense evil because we sense God. It's not a matter of clinical survival. It's an inherent familiarity that for those who have gained such senses and spiritual sensibility know, again, full well. We are surrounded by evil, embraced well within God's hands. If we are suddenly taken down by it, He carries us to His place. We are reunited. And this reality is being demonstrated by thousands and thousands of people, in the worst unimaginable conditions in the worst unimaginable places, far away from the freedom we are afforded in this country. And some of these people, having lost their families in the most unimaginable way, have found some resolve. They did this through the unintrusive compassion of foreigners. Genuine Christians, who have themselves risks their lives to give these people some hope to not so much measure their loses, but to begin to understand their own existence.

It matters little what institutional practice of faith we adopt into our daily lives. It matters that we come to find this inherent love for humanity, which draws us closer to loving ourselves, and loving nature and ultimately understanding who God is. This supreme being, the likes of which I have yet to fully define, or come close to any resolve of my worth to Him. I don't know that I will ever imagine such things. Except that He has brought me to this place. This beautiful place which, no matter the difficulty, the lack of humanity, the lack of common sensibility to our own image of God, is here for us.

We carry the weight of our sins, on our shoulders. But you will no sooner find happiness and fulfillment until you allow God's grace to adorn your spirit. When this happens, as I hope it does for everyone, you will have found providence within your own existence, your shortcomings, and all that pain and misery, and overwhelming worry and anxiety ceases to stifle these sensibilities. You will then have begun to find God, who is pure love, beyond anyone's imagination. Love is everything.

Anne Marie

We all need a religion because life without God is empty and senseless.

 

[Baron]

Yes, we need a religion!

I agree, we need religion so that simpletons like baron won't get scared of things they can't explain.

...so that simpletons like Baron and others 50 Nobel laureates who believe in God...

50 NOBEL LAUREATES
AND OTHER GREAT SCIENTISTS
WHO BELIEVE IN GOD

PART I. NOBEL SCIENTISTS (20th - 21st Century)

1. Albert EINSTEIN – Nobel Laureate in Physics

2. Max PLANCK – Nobel Laureate in Physics

3. Erwin SCHROEDINGER – Nobel Laureate in Physics

4. Werner HEISENBERG – Nobel Laureate in Physics

5. Robert MILLIKAN – Nobel Laureate in Physics

6. Charles TOWNES – Nobel Laureate in Physics

7. Arthur SCHAWLOW – Nobel Laureate in Physics

8. William PHILLIPS – Nobel Laureate in Physics

9. William BRAGG – Nobel Laureate in Physics

10. Guglielmo MARCONI – Nobel Laureate in Physics

11. Arthur COMPTON – Nobel Laureate in Physics

12. Arno PENZIAS – Nobel Laureate in Physics

13. Nevill MOTT – Nobel Laureate in Physics

14. Isidor Isaac RABI – Nobel Laureate in Physics

15. Abdus SALAM – Nobel Laureate in Physics

16. Antony HEWISH – Nobel Laureate in Physics

17. Joseph H. TAYLOR, Jr. – Nobel Laureate in Physics

18. Alexis CARREL – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

19. John ECCLES – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

20. Joseph MURRAY – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

21. Ernst CHAIN – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

22. George WALD – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

23. Ronald ROSS – Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology

24. Derek BARTON – Nobel Laureate in Chemistry

25. Christian ANFINSEN – Nobel Laureate in Chemistry

26. Walter KOHN – Nobel Laureate in Chemistry

27. Richard SMALLEY – Nobel Laureate in Chemistry

PART II. NOBEL WRITERS (20th - 21st Century)

28. T.S. ELIOT – Nobel Laureate in Literature

29. Rudyard KIPLING – Nobel Laureate in Literature

30. Alexander SOLZHENITSYN – Nobel Laureate in Literature

31. Francois MAURIAC – Nobel Laureate in Literature

32. Hermann HESSE – Nobel Laureate in Literature

33. Winston CHURCHILL – Nobel Laureate in Literature

34. Jean-Paul SARTRE – Nobel Laureate in Literature

35. Sigrid UNDSET – Nobel Laureate in Literature

36. Rabindranath TAGORE – Nobel Laureate in Literature

37. Rudolf EUCKEN – Nobel Laureate in Literature

38. Isaac SINGER – Nobel Laureate in Literature

PART III. NOBEL PEACE LAUREATES (20th - 21st Century)

39. Albert SCHWEITZER – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

40. Jimmy CARTER – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

41. Theodore ROOSEVELT – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

42. Woodrow WILSON – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

43. Frederik de KLERK – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

44. Nelson MANDELA – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

45. Kim DAE-JUNG – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

46. Dag HAMMARSKJOELD – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

47. Martin Luther KING, Jr. – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

48. Adolfo PEREZ ESQUIVEL – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

49. Desmond TUTU – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

50. John R. MOTT – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

PART IV. FOUNDERS OF MODERN SCIENCE (16th - 21st Century)

1. Isaac NEWTON – founder of Classical Physics and Infinitesimal Calculus

2. Galileo GALILEI – founder of Experimental Physics

3. Nicolaus COPERNICUS – founder of Heliocentric Cosmology

4. Johannes KEPLER – founder of Physical Astronomy and Modern Optics

5. Francis BACON – founder of the scientific inductive method

6. Rene DESCARTES – founder of Analytical Geometry and Modern Philosophy

7. Blaise PASCAL – founder of Hydrostatics, Hydrodynamics, and the Theory of Probabilities

8. Michael FARADAY – founder of Electronics and Electro-magnetics

9. James Clerk MAXWELL – founder of Statistical Thermodynamics

10. Lord KELVIN – founder of Thermodynamics and Energetics

11. Robert BOYLE – founder of Modern Chemistry

12. William HARVEY – founder of Modern Medicine

13. John RAY – founder of Modern Biology and Natural History

14. Gottfried Wilhelm LEIBNIZ – German mathematician and philosopher, founder of Infinitesimal Calculus

15. Charles DARWIN – founder of the Theory of Evolution

16. Ernst HAECKEL – German biologist, the most influential evolutionist in continental Europe

17. Thomas H. HUXLEY – English biologist and evolutionist, famous as “Darwin’s bulldog”

18. Joseph J. THOMSON – Nobel Laureate in Physics, discoverer of the electron, founder of atomic physics

19. Louis PASTEUR – founder of Microbiology and Immunology

20. Wernher von BRAUN – rocket engineer, founder of Astronautics

21. Francis COLLINS – Director of the National Human Genome Research Institute

22. Founders of Modern Science Included in Part I

etc. etc. etc.

Only primitive people who belived in God!

50 NOBEL LAUREATES WHO BELIEVE IN GOD

 

[JBeukema]

We all need a religion because life without God is empty and senseless.

only for the weak and ignorant, who make up meaning where none exists because reality is too much for them

 

[Diuretic]

At this stage in the evolution of humanity, yes, we do need religion. Most religions - I know there will be exceptions - have deities and ideas of an afterlife. Humans are probably the only animals on Earth with the ability to imagine their own, individual mortality, which is a sobering thought. The balm that religious belief brings, that there are deities and a continuing existence of some sort beyond this corporeal existence, is necessary for us, without those ideas we would, collectively, be in big trouble.

 

[Al Gunn]

Gee, 51 people! Boy, you sure got me!

Baron Simpleton

 

[sidneyworld]

Gee, 51 people! Boy, you sure got me!

Baron Simpleton

Actually the list that Baron provided is in the hundreds of other scientific fields, but that limited number is actually a reference to the top global minds, not just concentrated to the United States.

Conventional intelligence does not require a faith, which only compells the notion that great minds have come to a similar conclusion beyond their tangible theories. The perfection of creation simply cannot have come by accident, no matter how many billions of years one might have evidenced life.

If nothing else, one fact remains. Science cannot recreate life from nothing, nor can it conclusively explain why we exist to begin with.

Anne Marie

 

[Al Gunn]

Gee, 51 people! Boy, you sure got me!

Baron Simpleton

Actually the list that Baron provided is in the hundreds of other scientific fields, but that limited number is actually a reference to the top global minds, not just concentrated to the United States.

Conventional intelligence does not require a faith, which only compells the notion that great minds have come to a similar conclusion beyond their tangible theories. The perfection of creation simply cannot have come by accident, no matter how many billions of years one might have evidenced life.

If nothing else, one fact remains. Science cannot recreate life from nothing, nor can it conclusively explain why we exist to begin with.

Anne Marie

So because something can't be explained that's proof of god? Fuck, are you a simpleton too. It doesn't matter how many people are wrong (the total amount of people who believe in a god is probably about 90% of the world's people, I'm guessing but I'm sure it's a pretty high percentage), but it's impossible at this time to determine the why of our existence, it's more a philosophical question, not a purely scientific one. Einstein can debate the meaning of life, but he's no more certain of anything then anyone else is, just because he's a very smart guy. In other words, if everyone in Mensa believed in god, that would only prove that our brain is still in its infancy.

btw, scientist are working on creating life from the basic elements, I'm not sure if they've done it yet, but if not, they're not far away.

 

[JBeukema]

I linked you to a discussion and explanation regarding this matter some time ago. Even great minds have faltered and, in moments of weakness, turned to embrace ignorance for the psychological comforts awarded by such delusions.

The perfection of creation simply cannot have come by accident, no matter how many billions of years one might have evidenced life.

This ais a str4awman and a red herring. only IDiots like yourself view the universe as an 'accident'

If nothing else, one fact remains. Science cannot recreate life from nothing,

Prove that it can't be done. Also, since nothing can come from nothing or exist without coming to be or being caused within existence- then that would include your god

nor can it conclusively explain why we exist to begin with.

There is n0 'why' in the metaphysical sense; it is not a valid question

 

[sidneyworld]

I linked you to a discussion and explanation regarding this matter some time ago. Even great minds have faltered and, in moments of weakness, turned to embrace ignorance for the psychological comforts awarded by such delusions.

The perfection of creation simply cannot have come by accident, no matter how many billions of years one might have evidenced life.

This ais a str4awman and a red herring. only IDiots like yourself view the universe as an 'accident'

If nothing else, one fact remains. Science cannot recreate life from nothing,

Prove that it can't be done. Also, since nothing can come from nothing or exist without coming to be or being caused within existence- then that would include your god

nor can it conclusively explain why we exist to begin with.

There is n0 'why' in the metaphysical sense; it is not a valid question

Your attitude is a complete turn off. Go get a pacifier and relfect on your complete ignorance. I'm done with wasting my time on your continued sophomoric diatribe.

Anne Marie

 

[JBeukema]

it is you who is both ignorant and self-refuting. That you lash out and flee to hide from intellect merely reflects on the sad nature of your self.

 

[manifold]

Karl Marx: Religion is the opiate of the people

manifold: You say that like it's a bad thing?