Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Sky Dancer]

Get rid of bigotry. Oppose extremism in all its forms.

 

[Jack Fate]

Well I use the opinions of scholars and imams, I dont post my opinions .

Right. If that were true, then how do I know that you don't like Muslims? I'll tell you one way I know. Whenever I make a post that is neutral to positive about Muslims you neg rep me.

Mr. Fitnah, who despises Islam, still claims to be a scholar of that faith although he has never practiced it. He would have us trust him above actual Muslims on all matters Islamic. This desire to control what we think of Islam is quite powerful in him; I cannot recall ever seeing him post on another topic. Speculating about the motives of someone who would behave in this way has led to me one dark idea after another, but IME those with a craven desire to control the thoughts of others have suffered a loss of their own sense of personal power.

He's a victim of his own paranoia and hate, and I pity him.

You can be a student of somethign without having to practice it. There are a lot of very good Oncology specialists who have never had cancer, but they know how to treat it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Right. If that were true, then how do I know that you don't like Muslims? I'll tell you one way I know. Whenever I make a post that is neutral to positive about Muslims you neg rep me.

Mr. Fitnah, who despises Islam, still claims to be a scholar of that faith although he has never practiced it. He would have us trust him above actual Muslims on all matters Islamic. This desire to control what we think of Islam is quite powerful in him; I cannot recall ever seeing him post on another topic. Speculating about the motives of someone who would behave in this way has led to me one dark idea after another, but IME those with a craven desire to control the thoughts of others have suffered a loss of their own sense of personal power.

He's a victim of his own paranoia and hate, and I pity him.

You can be a student of somethign without having to practice it. There are a lot of very good Oncology specialists who have never had cancer, but they know how to treat it.

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. He picks out passages that lend credence to his bigotry. He hates all things Islamic.

Anyone can pick up a book on Buddhist philosophy and read it. That doesn't mean that they have understood the teaching. In our tradition, we have oral, symbolic, and mind to mind transmission in addition to written scriptures.

Also we contemplate and then mediate on the scriptures which allows for a deeper understanding.

Try folliwng the Bodihcharyaravatara. When Buddhist teachers lecture on scripture they go into it in minute detail. It's not unusual for them to spend an entire day just explaing the title of a scripture.

If you're going to make an analogy to medicine you would be wise to use Chinese medicine as an example. Anyone can learn the acupuncture sites on a human body, but understanding the energy flows and elements and how to promote real healing using them takes a lifetime to master.

 

[Adamo]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Some people who oppose marriage equality use biblical passages to justify their bias against gays and lesbians. Other Christians say of the same passages that they don't support harm to any gay or lesbian person. There is a school of thought that believes the Bible is the literal truth word for word, and there is another school of thought that says the Bible is a wisdom book best understood in terms of allegory, and best contemplated and meditated on.

Scripture can be misused and misinterpreted. Terrorists misuse scripture.

 

[Si modo]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Some people who oppose marriage equality use biblical passages to justify their bias against gays and lesbians. Other Christians say of the same passages that they don't support harm to any gay or lesbian person.

Scripture can be misused and misinterpreted. Terrorists misuse scripture.

Terrorists often domisuse scripture.

Those who misuse scripture are not terrorists.

Nice, but lame, try.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Some people who oppose marriage equality use biblical passages to justify their bias against gays and lesbians. Other Christians say of the same passages that they don't support harm to any gay or lesbian person.

Scripture can be misused and misinterpreted. Terrorists misuse scripture.

Terrorists often domisuse scripture.

Those who misuse scripture are not terrorists.

Nice, but lame, try.

You misunderstand my point. Let me put it another way. Jihad, for example. One school of Islamic thought is that jihad is a spiritual battle waged inside the individual devotee of Islam.

Fundamentalist Islam, may interpret jihad as combat with external enemies.

It's a matter of interpretation.

 

[Si modo]

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Some people who oppose marriage equality use biblical passages to justify their bias against gays and lesbians. Other Christians say of the same passages that they don't support harm to any gay or lesbian person.

Scripture can be misused and misinterpreted. Terrorists misuse scripture.

Terrorists often domisuse scripture.

Those who misuse scripture are not terrorists.

Nice, but lame, try.

....
It's a matter of interpretation.

With religion, it often is. Yet, some things are just as they are.


But, when it comes to terrorism, I would imagine your relativism serves you well.



That's the nice thing about living in a country with secular laws. I can blast stone-age theocracies and those who admire stone-age theocracies and those from stone-age theocracies without worrying about being punished for blasphemy.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Terrorists often domisuse scripture.

Those who misuse scripture are not terrorists.

Nice, but lame, try.

....
It's a matter of interpretation.

With religion, it often is. Yet, some things are just as they are.


But, when it comes to terrorism, I would imagine your relativism serves you well.



That's the nice thing about living in a country with secular laws. I can blast stone-age theocracies and those who admire stone-age theocracies and those from stone-age theocracies without worrying about being punished for blasphemy.

I don' t understand what you are saying about 'my relatavism serving me well. I don't support terrorism in any way. I don't support theocracy at all--Christian or Muslim.

 

[uscitizen]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

So the Koran and the Bible are pretty much the same?

Stoning of unfaithful wives and such.

 

[Adamo]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Cherry picking or not, you're saying the koran has that many bigotted passages, since MrFistfucked posts non-stop, 24/7.
It's ok, I'm down with that.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

I cherrypick, I only concern myself with the parts of Islam that concern me Jihad ,terrorism ,dhimmietude,ETC what constitutes offenses to muslims.
I do not care about the muslim on muslim dealing .

Scripture can be misused and misinterpreted. Terrorists misuse scripture.

You cant prove that.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

To bring the ends together to show the complete lack of response to the question this is the claim

I hate mahogany.

Not to mention all of the information that isn't consistent with your silly Islamic world domination conspiracy theory.

Thank you, that is more deflection it does not answer or explain the second part of the first sentence in ayat 8:39 that is repeated in 2:193
I will bold it so those who wish to explain it can more easliy identify the part Im refering to.


And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) (Al-Baqarah 2:193)

 

[britishbulldog]

Faithful muslims believe in a lie. So their entire life is one.

 

[Jack Fate]

Mr. Fitnah, who despises Islam, still claims to be a scholar of that faith although he has never practiced it. He would have us trust him above actual Muslims on all matters Islamic. This desire to control what we think of Islam is quite powerful in him; I cannot recall ever seeing him post on another topic. Speculating about the motives of someone who would behave in this way has led to me one dark idea after another, but IME those with a craven desire to control the thoughts of others have suffered a loss of their own sense of personal power.

He's a victim of his own paranoia and hate, and I pity him.

You can be a student of somethign without having to practice it. There are a lot of very good Oncology specialists who have never had cancer, but they know how to treat it.

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. He picks out passages that lend credence to his bigotry. He hates all things Islamic.

Anyone can pick up a book on Buddhist philosophy and read it. That doesn't mean that they have understood the teaching. In our tradition, we have oral, symbolic, and mind to mind transmission in addition to written scriptures.

Also we contemplate and then mediate on the scriptures which allows for a deeper understanding.

Try folliwng the Bodihcharyaravatara. When Buddhist teachers lecture on scripture they go into it in minute detail. It's not unusual for them to spend an entire day just explaing the title of a scripture.

If you're going to make an analogy to medicine you would be wise to use Chinese medicine as an example. Anyone can learn the acupuncture sites on a human body, but understanding the energy flows and elements and how to promote real healing using them takes a lifetime to master.

Okay. The Quran tells muslim men they are allowed to beat their wives under certain conditions. Would you like to experiene that so you fully understand Islam?

 

[Jack Fate]

What you can't do without practicing the faith is have a living experience of it. Hissyfit has an anti-Islam bias. All he does it pick out passages that lend credence to his bigotry.

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

So the Koran and the Bible are pretty much the same?

Stoning of unfaithful wives and such.

Here is where you and your pals get confused. Just because something is in the bible doesn't mean it's a Christian teaching. You're in way over your head. Study the religion of Christianity if you want to understand Christianity.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What does Buddhism say about name calling and speaking ill of someone from a posistion of ignorance?

 

[Kalam]

Its close enough to get the gist .
Isnt it?

Nope.

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) (Al-Baqarah 2:193)

Fitnah does not mean "disbelief and polytheism," deen does not mean "worship," "If they cease..." does not refer to "worshipping (sic) others besides Allah," and a dhalim is not a "polytheist." The meaning is context-dependent and does not denote polytheists. Completely incorrect.

And if Allah had pleased, they would not have set up others (with Him). And We have not appointed thee a keeper over them, and thou art not placed in charge of them. And abuse not those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest, exceeding the limits, they abuse Allah through ignorance. Thus to every people have We made their deeds fair-seeming; then to their Lord is their return so He will inform them of what they did... so leave them alone with what they forge -- and that the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter may incline thereto, and that they may be pleased with it, and that they may earn what they are earning. - 6:106-113​

From your source concerning the verse I asked about,
8:39
[39-40] O Believers, fight with the disbelievers till there is no more mischief and the way of life prescribed by Allah is established in its entirety.31 Then if they desist from mischief, surely Allah beholds what they do, but if they give no heed, know it that Allah is your Protector, and He is the best of all protectors and helpers.

Do you not have access to the end notes?

Here the war aim of Islam, which had previously been declared in 11: 193, has been repeated. This aim has two aspects-- the negative and the positive. On the negative side, the aim of war is to abolish (fitnah), and on the positive, it is to establish Allah's Way completely and in its entirety. This is the only objective for which it is lawful, nay, obligatory for the believers to fight. There is no other object for which fighting is lawful, and it does not behoove the believers to resort to fighting for any other objective. (For fuller details, please see E.N.'s 204 and 205 of Al-Baqarah.)​

Those being the end notes that I quoted earlier in this thread and which you failed to acknowledge. You must realize that you completely ignore information that contradicts your plebeian interpretations even when that information is right in front of you. Is your dishonesty still a conscious act or has it become automatic out of habit?

Meaning of Mischief

In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,

[وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ]

(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,

[لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ]

("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,

[وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ]

(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

The word translated as "mischief" in 8:39 is فتنةٌ - fitnatun.

The word translated as "make mischief" in 2:11, the passage your quote references, is تفسد - tafasid.

Sorry; they aren't synonyms, nor do they come from the same root. Regarding 8:39, why don't we use Maududi's definition of the word which you ignored earlier?

"...it denotes that condition of society which is not safe and free for adoption of the way of Allah."​

 

[Kalam]

So if he can find passages that lend credence to his bigotry, are you saying that the koran is a book for bigots? I'm down with that.

I'm saying that he is cherry picking verses to back his bigotry. Some atheists do the same with Christian passages.

Cherry picking or not, you're saying the koran has that many bigotted passages, since MrFistfucked posts non-stop, 24/7.
It's ok, I'm down with that.

You forget that he posts the same things ad nauseum. Generally speaking, all of Mr. Fitnah's musings on the subject are very slight variations of the same 5-10 posts.

 

[Kalam]

Right. If that were true, then how do I know that you don't like Muslims? I'll tell you one way I know. Whenever I make a post that is neutral to positive about Muslims you neg rep me.

Mr. Fitnah, who despises Islam, still claims to be a scholar of that faith although he has never practiced it. He would have us trust him above actual Muslims on all matters Islamic. This desire to control what we think of Islam is quite powerful in him; I cannot recall every seeing him post on another topic.

He's a victim of his own paranoia and hate, and I pity him.

Interesting. As a person who has admitted being ignorant in Islam, how would you be in any possible position to judge the knowledge of another? Somehow, that makes sense to you.

Fascinating.

I'll vouch for the accuracy of her post except for the part about never posting on another topic. He also has an affinity for Glenn Beck.