Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Madeline]

I asked a question elsewhere about the need for a Muslim to be truthful to a non-Muslim, and received this response:

The correct form of "lying" you are referring to (taqiyya and kitman) has no real word for it in English. I guess the "long definition" would be "deceiving your oppressors in time of great calamity."

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam.​

What you CAN do, however, is tell "half-truths". Drawing once again on the example of Nazi Germany, if the SS came to a German Christian's front door, and asked whether or not he had seen any Jews for the past few days, "kitman" would be as follows:

The German says "I haven't seen them anywhere."

What he doesn't add is that he's HEARD about where the Jews are running, and so he has succeeded in keeping the Jews safe while still telling the truth. That is an example of kitman.

And a Muslim performing taqiyya is a paradox. Taqiyya is when a Muslim hides his or her faith from the state in times of oppression, and has nothing to do with lying for personal benefit. The people who promote forth the theory of "actively lying to the infidel West" are Muslim versions of the KKK, and simply no better than that.

Comments? Or are we ready to quit beating the "Muslims cannot be trusted" horse now?

 

[Skull Pilot]

All people lie.

It's the nature of the beast.

 

[chanel]

4 times a day they say.

However lying about your age is a white lie. Lying about your nefarious associates is not.

 

[Madeline]

Some of our fellow USMB-ers have claimed that Islam teaches Muslims they must lie to non-Muslims to enhance the religion's reputation and conceal its nefarious side. I find the notion that any widely followed religion has a tenent that requires adherents to lie unbelievable.

 

[Hister]

All people lie.

It's the nature of the beast.

So you do have kids?

 

[Skull Pilot]

All people lie.

It's the nature of the beast.

So you do have kids?

You should seek help for your unnatural obsession with other people's reproductive choices.

 

[Hister]

All people lie.

It's the nature of the beast.

So you do have kids?

You should seek help for your unnatural obsession with other people's reproductive choices.

But you'd want to, I can tell.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Some of our fellow USMB-ers have claimed that Islam teaches Muslims they must lie to non-Muslims to enhance the religion's reputation and conceal its nefarious side. I find the notion that any widely followed religion has a tenent that requires adherents to lie unbelievable.

That video of the middle school kids in the mosque also had video of some Muslim broad telling the students that women had the right to vote thousands of years ago in Muslim society. I would say that is a lie sanctioned by the Muslim faith in order to spread propaganda and possibly recruit new sheep.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you do have kids?

You should seek help for your unnatural obsession with other people's reproductive choices.

But you'd want to, I can tell.

You should also get help for your belief that you can read other's minds.

 

[Madeline]

Some of our fellow USMB-ers have claimed that Islam teaches Muslims they must lie to non-Muslims to enhance the religion's reputation and conceal its nefarious side. I find the notion that any widely followed religion has a tenent that requires adherents to lie unbelievable.

That video of the middle school kids in the mosque also had video of some Muslim broad telling the students that women had the right to vote thousands of years ago in Muslim society. I would say that is a lie sanctioned by the Muslim faith in order to spread propaganda and possibly recruit new sheep.

Is it a lie, Skull Pilot?

 

[Hister]

You should seek help for your unnatural obsession with other people's reproductive choices.

But you'd want to, I can tell.

You should also get help for your belief that you can read other's minds.

Cmon, don't lie, there's got to be a tiny part of you that would have liked to have had kids.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Some of our fellow USMB-ers have claimed that Islam teaches Muslims they must lie to non-Muslims to enhance the religion's reputation and conceal its nefarious side. I find the notion that any widely followed religion has a tenent that requires adherents to lie unbelievable.

That video of the middle school kids in the mosque also had video of some Muslim broad telling the students that women had the right to vote thousands of years ago in Muslim society. I would say that is a lie sanctioned by the Muslim faith in order to spread propaganda and possibly recruit new sheep.

Is it a lie, Skull Pilot?

Do you really believe that in Mohamed's time where neither men nor women had many if any political rights that women were allowed to vote?

Do you really believe that muslim culture which does not allow many women to learn to read was so much more advanced 6 or 7 centuries ago than the rest of the world and has only recently slid backwards?

 

[Skull Pilot]

But you'd want to, I can tell.

You should also get help for your belief that you can read other's minds.

Cmon, don't lie, there's got to be a tiny part of you that would have liked to have had kids.

Go away.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I asked a question elsewhere about the need for a Muslim to be truthful to a non-Muslim, and received this response:

The correct form of "lying" you are referring to (taqiyya and kitman) has no real word for it in English. I guess the "long definition" would be "deceiving your oppressors in time of great calamity."

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

You can't lie. That is very blatantly stated in Islam.​

What you CAN do, however, is tell "half-truths". Drawing once again on the example of Nazi Germany, if the SS came to a German Christian's front door, and asked whether or not he had seen any Jews for the past few days, "kitman" would be as follows:

The German says "I haven't seen them anywhere."

What he doesn't add is that he's HEARD about where the Jews are running, and so he has succeeded in keeping the Jews safe while still telling the truth. That is an example of kitman.

And a Muslim performing taqiyya is a paradox. Taqiyya is when a Muslim hides his or her faith from the state in times of oppression, and has nothing to do with lying for personal benefit. The people who promote forth the theory of "actively lying to the infidel West" are Muslim versions of the KKK, and simply no better than that.

Comments? Or are we ready to quit beating the "Muslims cannot be trusted" horse now?

You are free to be as gullible as you wish.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf's crime ?

He then returned to Madinah to start a fresh campaign of slanderous propaganda that took the form of obscene songs and amatory sonnets with a view to defaming the Muslim women.

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 269
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

Peacemaking
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 49 :: Hadith 857
Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba:

That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."
Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 268
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".

General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab)
Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4902
Narrated Umm Kulthum bint Uqbah al-Umawiyyah:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who forged in order to put things right between two persons did not lie. The version by Ahmad ibn Muhammad and Musaddad has: The liar is not the one who puts things right between people, saying what is good and increasing good.


Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 267
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah's Cause." He called, "War is deceit'.

 

[Hister]

You should also get help for your belief that you can read other's minds.

Cmon, don't lie, there's got to be a tiny part of you that would have liked to have had kids.

Go away.

Or don't they let gays adopt in your state?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 66:2

 

[Hister]

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 66:2

Nobody cares about your useless koran links, you fucking sand monkey.

 

[Sunni Man]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posted all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

 

[Hister]

LOL, Mr Fitnuts posed all of that just to show that Muhammud said. "War is deceit".

So what?

It was during a time of war. Of course you lie and try to deceive the enemy in order to win the war.

Ever seen what the Israeli's Mossad motto is? "By Way of Deception, thou shalt do War".

Looks like the kid's having a crap. That you kissing the carpet?

 

[Mini 14]

All muslims lie.

If a raghead gives me the time of day, I'm still checking my watch.

When they start acting holy, I'll treat them as a religion. Until then, they remain an ignorant, barbaric, evil, socio-political movement.