Dismantle all welfare programs.

[Modbert]

You are an arrogant fuck...aren't you? *YOU* have no fucking clue BOY. Keep assuming. It will be your undoing.

Arrogant? Of course not Thomas. They always say one of the first things to go with old age is memory. And other substances being involved doesn't help either.

 

[The T]

I like your answer because it presents a view I hadn't heard before and on the surface seems reasonable to me. It doesn't alleviate my concern that the system will be morphed by politicans who'll set tax rates based on their own discriminations, not much different than what we see now through "sin taxses" but on a grander scale.

Once enacted? The Politicians can't touch it except by Amendment action...and THAT in of itself is HARD to do and why the Constitution isn't filled by hundreds of Amendments in our 200+ year History...and why we aren't wrecked by now. [Even now we are on the road to being wrecked by the current CODE(s), because they're punative, and practice Class Warfare for manipulation purposes].

Can you imagine what our Constitution would look like if they could add to it as easily as they pass laws in Congress?

Shoot! We would not be questioning whether or not Health Care Reform was Constitutional because by now it would be part of the Constitution.

Immie

Remember this as *YOU* weigh what true rights are...as it relates to Liberty, and how much of both you've already LOST via LAW courtesy of your own government...as weighed *WITH* the intent of the Founders AND the Constitution as written.

Some of you have been ill- taught, and remain ignorant as to "Rights' Vs. Responsibilities. And everything it entails.

Must some of you rely upon Government to tell *YOU* what they are or will you rely upon common sense?

And of more import? WHY must you wait for government to tell you?

For those of you that must ponder this question? have learned ZERO, and *ARE* the problem.

 

[Immanuel]

Once enacted? The Politicians can't touch it except by Amendment action...and THAT in of itself is HARD to do and why the Constitution isn't filled by hundreds of Amendments in our 200+ year History...and why we aren't wrecked by now. [Even now we are on the road to being wrecked by the current CODE(s), because they're punative, and practice Class Warfare for manipulation purposes].

Can you imagine what our Constitution would look like if they could add to it as easily as they pass laws in Congress?

Shoot! We would not be questioning whether or not Health Care Reform was Constitutional because by now it would be part of the Constitution.

Immie

Remember this as *YOU* weigh what true rights are...as it relates to Liberty, and how much of both you've already LOST via LAW courtesy of your own government...as weighed *WITH* the intent of the Founders AND the Constitution as written.

Some of you have been ill- taught, and remain ignorant as to "Rights' Vs. Responsibilities. And everything it entails.

Must some of you rely upon Government to tell *YOU* what they are or will you rely upon common sense?

And of more import? WHY must you wait for government to tell you?

For those of you that must ponder this question? have learned ZERO, and *ARE* the problem.

Are you drunk? Have you been smoking some nasty shit tonight?

What the hell are you talking about with all this "you" shit?

Never mind, I don't expect an answer, you ignored post #62. You only seem to be dropping in for stupid one sided attacks and then moving on to the next attack tonight.

Is this the real "The T" or has little brother logged on in his place?

Immie

 

[The T]

Can you imagine what our Constitution would look like if they could add to it as easily as they pass laws in Congress?

Shoot! We would not be questioning whether or not Health Care Reform was Constitutional because by now it would be part of the Constitution.

Immie

Remember this as *YOU* weigh what true rights are...as it relates to Liberty, and how much of both you've already LOST via LAW courtesy of your own government...as weighed *WITH* the intent of the Founders AND the Constitution as written.

Some of you have been ill- taught, and remain ignorant as to "Rights' Vs. Responsibilities. And everything it entails.

Must some of you rely upon Government to tell *YOU* what they are or will you rely upon common sense?

And of more import? WHY must you wait for government to tell you?

For those of you that must ponder this question? have learned ZERO, and *ARE* the problem.

Are you drunk? Have you been smoking some nasty shit tonight?

What the hell are you talking about with all this "you" shit?

Never mind, I don't expect an answer, you ignored post #62. You only seem to be dropping in for stupid one sided attacks and then moving on to the next attack tonight.

Is this the real "The T" or has little brother logged on in his place?

Immie

The 'YOU' Is a general statement meant for the reader. And you may cease your attack. As to post 62? What's the big deal?

I meant what *I* said. And what's the big deal? YOUR question was MOOT since that isn't what *I* implied.

Get the FUCK over yourself Immie.

And *I* mean that.

 

[Immanuel]

Remember this as *YOU* weigh what true rights are...as it relates to Liberty, and how much of both you've already LOST via LAW courtesy of your own government...as weighed *WITH* the intent of the Founders AND the Constitution as written.

Some of you have been ill- taught, and remain ignorant as to "Rights' Vs. Responsibilities. And everything it entails.

Must some of you rely upon Government to tell *YOU* what they are or will you rely upon common sense?

And of more import? WHY must you wait for government to tell you?

For those of you that must ponder this question? have learned ZERO, and *ARE* the problem.

Are you drunk? Have you been smoking some nasty shit tonight?

What the hell are you talking about with all this "you" shit?

Never mind, I don't expect an answer, you ignored post #62. You only seem to be dropping in for stupid one sided attacks and then moving on to the next attack tonight.

Is this the real "The T" or has little brother logged on in his place?

Immie

The 'YOU' Is a general statement meant for the reader. And you may cease your attack. As to post 62? What's the big deal?

I meant what *I* said. And what's the big deal? YOUR question was MOOT since that isn't what *I* implied.

Get the FUCK over yourself Immie.

And *I* mean that.

I think you are the one that needs to get over yourself T.

I simply asked you to explain what you meant, because it sure as hell sounds as if you blame the children for their irresponsible parents.

Immie

 

[Avatar4321]

You have to be a troll, nobody can be this stupid.

You obviously haven't been reading all the posts on this board.

 

[Avatar4321]

ALL subsidies. Time the government cease the manipulation on all levels.

Sink or swim on you own accord. The essence of true Liberty.

According to whom?

Nature

 

[JBeukema]

I think we should end all welfare...period.

Cool. I'll remember that the next time you're hurt or hungry and you ask for help.

 

[JBeukema]

ALL subsidies. Time the government cease the manipulation on all levels.

Sink or swim on you own accord. The essence of true Liberty.

According to whom?

The bourgeoisie who inherits his father's wealth...

 

[Avatar4321]

SUre, and watch crime go up when starving people get desperate and turn to other methods to survive, like robbing and stealing

Because we all know that robbing and stealing are the only ways out there to make money.

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.

Do you resort to stealing when rough times hit?

 

[JBeukema]

According to the Founders and the idea of True Liberty, Minimum Government intrusion upon the States and the people and their affairs.

Really now? Find me where Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Washington, Jackson, or any of the other founders told people that whole spiel you made about essential true liberty being sink or swim.

Bourgeois Liberalism...

 

[GilbertArizona]

Well from my reading of the legislation that's not the situation. Consider a car dealer with a used Cadillac on his lot having a Blue Book value of $20,000. From what I read his tax liability could be either $0 or roughly $6000 based on the circumstances

If I remember correctly, used items are not taxed and that is because they were taxed at the point of original purchase.

That is absolutely true. But while you and I have our definition of "used" the FairTax legislation has one of its own. If the Caddy in the example was traded in by a customer who purchased it new, the dealer could consider it a used car for tax purpose. Now let's say the Caddy had been turned in at the end of a lease. Those lease payments would be taxed but the car would still be considered "new" at end of the lease and be subject to the FairTax which would be based on its remaining value.

The FairTax certainly isn't any enemy to tax lawyers. I think I'd do well to avoid much of it but my aggrevation would grow in knowing I was jumpinig through many more hoopes simply based on the government's change of whips.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think we should end all welfare...period.

Obama was just to much.

Then what?

Seriously . . . then what happens?

The same thing that happened for thousands of years before welfare was started. Life goes on.

 

[Immanuel]

Well from my reading of the legislation that's not the situation. Consider a car dealer with a used Cadillac on his lot having a Blue Book value of $20,000. From what I read his tax liability could be either $0 or roughly $6000 based on the circumstances

If I remember correctly, used items are not taxed and that is because they were taxed at the point of original purchase.

That is absolutely true. But while you and I have our definition of "used" the FairTax legislation has one of its own. If the Caddy in the example was traded in by a customer who purchased it new, the dealer could consider it a used car for tax purpose. Now let's say the Caddy had been turned in at the end of a lease. Those lease payments would be taxed but the car would still be considered "new" at end of the lease and be subject to the FairTax which would be based on its remaining value.

The FairTax certainly isn't any enemy to tax lawyers. I think I'd do well to avoid much of it but my aggrevation would grow in knowing I was jumpinig through many more hoopes simply based on the government's change of whips.

Except that you wouldn't have the headache of having to submit the taxes. The car dealer would have to do so and they already have to submit state sales taxes. It would be simple for them to incorporate the Fair Tax into their system.

You really would not have any hoops to jump through.

You would go to the dealer and negotiate the price of the Caddy. They would tell you that the price is $20,000 and taxes on it were $6,000. If $26,000 was too expensive for you, you would move down the scale to the Chevy Capri and pick it up for whatever price you could negotiate.

If the Caddy were considered used and the dealer sold it to you at $20,000 and you agreed to that price you would have your Caddy... now why on Earth you would want a land boat, I have no idea, but whatever floats your boat!

I'm gonna try to get to bed now, so if I ignore The T and you in this thread, for a while, please forgive me. The discussion has been for the most part enjoyable with both of you.

Immie

 

[SuMar]

I think we should end all welfare...period.

Obama was just to much.

He should eliminate as many liberal programs as he can. He needs to find away to pay for Obamacare.

 

[Madeline]

I think we should end all welfare...period.

Obama was just to much.

What a wonderful idea! Let me start us off!

Price supports to Big Agriculture

Depletion allowances and depreciation deductions for Big Oil, Gas, Coal

R & D expense deductions to Big Pharam

Let's see, what else......

Fixed price contracting with the Department of Defense

Government credit card spending by DOD employees

Humm, there must be more. I'm looking, looking...this is complex stuff....can I add another reply later?

An explanation of the chart and what the values mean is here:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=2000_2011&view=0&expand=&units=b&fy=fy11&chart=F0-total_40-total_70-total_60-total_30-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=l&title=&state=US&color=c&local=s

 

[DiamondDave]

Ummm... your graphic is flat out wrong... entitlements, welfare, and the like is one of the 2 top expenditures of the federal government

 

[DiamondDave]

I think we should end all welfare...period.

Cool. I'll remember that the next time you're hurt or hungry and you ask for help.

Asking for help from friends, family, and charity, where they have the option of saying yes OR no depending on their situation and will.... is MUCH different than forced redistribution in an overbloated governmental red tape machine

 

[Brubricker]

Ummm... your graphic is flat out wrong... entitlements, welfare, and the like is one of the 2 top expenditures of the federal government

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What I'm interested in knowing is how the troll defines "welfare."

Do farm subsidies count?

Yep...and foreign aid too!!!!!