Discussion of why the US continually act as the authoritative body in foreign affairs

[midcan5]

There are no examples in this thread? Provide please. My quick take. WWI was kinda stupid but WWII was an attack and declared war. Korea and Vietnam were born of the fears of the domino theory of world domination. An idea that grew from Germany's invasions and narrow minded view of nations falling in line and Russia's domination of eastern Europe. Iraq was an illegal invasion based on trumped up intelligence. Afghanistan started out OK but got screwed up with this idiotic idea that democracy or love of American corporatism can be bought with a gun. American has always supported bad guys and good guys. Interfering for humanitarian reasons such as Kosovo is hardly a bad thing. Wish they helped in Darfur. This is the ??? one. The History Guy: The Invasion of Grenada

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The whole reason I brought this up was because that this neoimperial vision that the united states (mostly bush) has formed is going to continue to make enemies. The terrorist groups in the middle east are just the beginning, eventually a lot of large nations are going to start hating us and then we'll be in real trouble.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's lame. We didn't "make" Islamic fascists.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No, but we did make Islamic fascists hate us.

 

[AllieBaba]

No we didn't.

 

[AllieBaba]

Psychology 101....we aren't responsible for the "feelings" of others.

The only feelings you're responsible for are your own.

You can't make somebody love you. You can't make them hate you. You can only control your own behavior.

The whole "we made them terrorists" argument is so ridiculous.

 

[AllieBaba]

"I'm a sex offender because my teacher molested me! I'm not to blame for molesting those 35 children! It's my teacher's fault!"

"I'm an arsonist because my mom didn't like me. It's her fault that 15 people died in the club I burned!"

"I'm a terrorist because America is an evil empire! It's their fault that I killed all those people..."

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The terrorists are against western ideology because of what we do, because of the way we handle foreign relations in an imperial, our-country-is-better- than-everyone-else's kind of manner. If we weren't like this they would still be terrorists but they wouldn't hate us. (I mean the terrorists hate pretty much everyone but they wouldn't hate us with such passion like they do now.)

 

[Xenophon]

We are following FDR's design.

He wanted the four great powers to rule the world and keep it in line, Truman had a falling out with Russia and China but the concept remains.

It's damaging to us as a nation and to our economy but we keep right on doing it.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well why can't we stop doing it? Hopefully we'll be following Obama's design soon and hopefully that design won't cause us to waste our resources on things that shouldn't concern us.

 

[Xenophon]

BO is a democrat, intervention is a cornerstone of Democrats, they invented this sytem.

It will go right along and will probaly be worse as we appear in araes that are far outside our national interests, like sudan for example.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Uhh, well, that's quite a claim. Maybe it would make a difference if Charles Taylor hadn't already said he was stepping down from power before the Americans told him to.

But that doesn't make the claim any more humorous. I mean, if you're saying that the US has had some sort of mission to liberate peoples, the track record is frigging terrifying. You say "Liberia!", maybe you could EVEN stretch to say "Afghanistan!" or "Iraq!" (and that's a big stretch), but it doesn't erase the dozens of US-backed our outrightly US-installed dictators, just for the past 60 years:

1953- Overthrown democratically elected government of Iran; Shah installed as absolute dictator. (Interestingly, even Khomeini was on the CIA payroll until he actually deposed the Shah).
1954- Overthrown democratically elected government of Guatemala; installed brutal military junta and supported it for decades.
1973- Overthrown democratically elected government of Chile; installed Generalissimo Augusto Pinochet. Supported his attrocities.
1937- Marines land on Nicaragua, install Anastasio Somoza as dictator. Support of Somoza ruling DYNASTY, until 1979, which leads us to...
1980s- Funds terrorists to depose democratically elected (1986) government of Nicaragua, after the party in power deposed the brutal US-backed dictatorship of the previous 40+ years.
1978- Supports Saddam Hussein's coup. Supports Saddam Hussein regime until 1991. (Aka, full support and knowledge during Kurd-Killing, Iranian-Gassing, and all sorts of evil things that were later used to defend the invasion. Guess everybody forgot who was daddy when the atrocities were going on).
1970- Gen. Hugo Banzer overthrows Bolivian government. US supports him.
1965- Gen. Branco overthrows elected government of Joao Joulart in Brazil; with US help. Subsequently supported dictatorship.
1965-1998- Unwavering support of the brutal, genocidal regime of Suharto in Indonesia. (Clinton called him "Our kinda guy", the same guy who exterminated more than a third of the population of East Timor in 1975).

And of course, full support for the Argentine military junta (a couple of which were trained in one of the biggest terrorist camps in the world- The School of the Americas), the Salvadorean military junta, the Paraguayan dictatorship of Stroessner, the continuing support for the Saudi Royal Dictatorship, and of course Noriega, another alumn of the School of the Americas.

Of course, the support has often dependent on total obedience to US policy. So, when the Argentines mess with even bigger clients (i.e. Britain) there is no support. Likewise for Noriega or Saddam.

A true history of liberation. Thanks, America!

Of course, every last one of those "democratic regimes" were the result of Soviet and Soviet proxy funded rigged elections and pro-Soviet governments. And it was our standing policy of containment during the cold war that pro-American dictatorship was ALWAYS and WITHOUT QUESTION, INFINITELY more desirable than a pro-Soviet "democracy".

That still holds today, where we vigorously support Israel in it's battle to destroy "democratically" elected terrorists in Hamas.

It's what we do, and we are ALWAYS right in all things, because we have the biggest stick, and in the end, that is all that really matters.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Well why can't we stop doing it? Hopefully we'll be following Obama's design soon and hopefully that design won't cause us to waste our resources on things that shouldn't concern us.

Obama has appointed mostly HAWKS to his foreign policy team, lead by the biggest hawk of them all, Joe Biden. Not sure what you think the Obama design is, but it is most certainly NOT appeasement. He may talk to Iran, before he bombs them, rather than a Bush just not bothering with the talking part...

 

[indago]

We're in everybody's business because we are the #1 power in the world, because we are the protectors of freedom.

So, point out just where this power is granted in the Constitution of the United States.

 

[elvis]

BO is a democrat, intervention is a cornerstone of Democrats, they invented this sytem.

It will go right along and will probaly be worse as we appear in araes that are far outside our national interests, like sudan for example.

Exactly. Everything Obama has said has indicated we will continue to play Watchdog for the World.

 

[Zoomie1980]

So, point out just where this power is granted in the Constitution of the United States.

Irrelevant point. Constitution deals with the function of government. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the conduction of foreign policy. But it gave that function largely to the President to do as he see's fit.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Irrelevant point. Constitution deals with the function of government. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the conduction of foreign policy. But it gave that function largely to the President to do as he see's fit.

No, it most certainly does not give the President authority to do as he sees fit. The Constitution does not authorize our government to form an overseas American Empire, and it is ridiculous to assume that the founders would allow that to happen considering they had just broken away from a tyrannical government.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Of course, every last one of those "democratic regimes" were the result of Soviet and Soviet proxy funded rigged elections and pro-Soviet governments. And it was our standing policy of containment during the cold war that pro-American dictatorship was ALWAYS and WITHOUT QUESTION, INFINITELY more desirable than a pro-Soviet "democracy".

That still holds today, where we vigorously support Israel in it's battle to destroy "democratically" elected terrorists in Hamas.

It's what we do, and we are ALWAYS right in all things, because we have the biggest stick, and in the end, that is all that really matters.

Bull-fucking-shit. So much bullshit, in fact, that it doesn't merit a response.

You last sentence says it all. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Cardboard]

I do think that the United States should stop acting as the world's police, but in all honesty, it won't happen anytime soon. It's not enough to ask why and condemn the U.S. for assuming a global leadership role. It has to be stopped by outside forces, and I don't mean with force.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I don't believe that dissent from government is ridiculous crap. I think the stance that you're being a "good citizen" if you're pissing on your government is ridiculous crap. I think this thread is ridiculous crap. It's more whining and posturing about "Dammit, why are we so GREAT? Can't we just sit around on our hands and act like losers, that's what everyone else does...why are we in the middle of everyone's business? Waaahhhh.."

Now that's ridiculous, juvenile crap. We're in everybody's business because we are the #1 power in the world, because we are the protectors of freedom. If that's too much for people to get their heads around, then they need to take a flipping nap.

A good citizen is watchful of their government. Only through vigilance can we make sure that our government does not become tyrannical at home and abroad.

We're the protectors of freedom alright, except when we're not. When we put a military dictator back in power in Iran in 1953 comes to mind.