Democrats: the more people know about government run healthcare, the less they like

[jreeves]

Right has nothing to do with it. This poster thinks his insults better input than a factually supportive response.

Asking a neo con to think for his or her self is a non starter. They let thier idols do the thinking. Thier job is to scorch the earth on those that can't be conned.

I'm waiting for the day the libs do their thinking for themselves, and quit thinking that our government is the answer. The brightest people in this great nation aren't in our government...they're in our private sector.
Huggy you let the government do your thinking for you...that's where it starts and ends for you. The government has problems with SS, they have problems with medicare, and you want them to take over the healthcare? I see no thought process on your end with that.

THE PROBLEM is that there is no viable alternative. I'd gladly climb on board for some new, proven less costly solutions. I have never been a strong advocate for universal health care, for the very reasons you state. IF it could be done in a cost-effective manner, however, I would probably be all for it. But I do advocate the health care insurance being proposed. To me, that's a decent compromise because THE PROBLEM is the number of Americans caught between a rock and a hard place--they aren't old enough for Medicare and earn too much to qualify for Medicaid--yet their personal out-of-pocket expenses for health care are breaking their backs.

So you are for universal coverage and crappy health care for all? There are alternatives to spending ourselves into bankruptcy, this program will cost over 1 trillion dollars in the first 10 years. 1 trillion dollars that our government doesn't have.

 

[DiveCon]

Yeah, it's just a normal part of our day to get smacked down when we post OUR backup information. You guys think you're always right, all the time because you are so tightly restricted by your own backup reading. So tell us again? If you're so "right" about everything, how come you're all running around sans a party to call your own with no cohesive alternatives? I keep Jack Kemp's quotation visible for a purpose. Think about it for a change.

yeah, some dumbassed progress/liberal asshole site says it so it MUST be true

I see you're really just too stupid to see how utterly stooooopid that comment was.

talkin about yourself again

 

[editec]

No solution, government or private, is going to end the problem as long as the cost of HC is increasing at a rate twice the rate of inflation, folks.

The private insurance system we had worked fairly well back when most Americans actually worked for a living and the median age in this nation was about ten years less than it is now.

But now, now that age-demographics and rising prices of continuously more complex (and slightly better) HC are eroding our ability to pay (regardless of what system we have in place) we are facing a real problem, and one that neither capitalism OR socialism seems to have any REAL long term solution for.

The median salary for a GP in the usa is $135,000. Many medical MD specialites have median incomes twice that amount. And that's SALARIES, not what they're making in private practices!

The median salary for nurses is $41, 642.

The median salary for Americans overall is $21,587.

And the incomes of HC providers is only a small part of the problem, too.

Through in the cost of highly specialized technicians, the rising prices of new drugs, and medical equipment, and the problem become obvious.

HC gets more expensive because it gets better, and the market demand for it is increasing as the media age of Americans get older, too.

It's ONLY going to get worse, folks.

An aging population, and a population whose incomes are declining combine to make HC a real problem regardless of what solutions we apply or don't apply.

Tryingot blame liberals or capitalists or socialism or capitalism for this state of affairs might be satisfying for some of you ideaologues, but it is simply wrong.

 

[jreeves]

No solution, government or private, is going to end the problem as long as the cost of HC is increasing at a rate twice the rate of inflation, folks.

The private insurance system we had worked fairly well back when most Americans actually worked for a living and the median age in this nation was about ten years less than it is now.

But now, now that age-demographics and rising prices of continuously more complex (and slightly better) HC are eroding our ability to pay (regardless of what system we have in place) we are facing a real problem, and one that neither capitalism OR socialism seems to have any REAL long term solution for.

The median salary for a GP in the usa is $135,000. Many medical MD specialites have median incomes twice that amount. And that's SALARIES, not what they're making in private practices!

The median salary for nurses is $41, 642.

The median salary for Americans overall is $21,587.

And the incomes of HC providers is only a small part of the problem, too.

Through in the cost of highly specialized technicians, the rising prices of new drugs, and medical equipment, and the problem become obvious.

HC gets more expensive because it gets better, and the market demand for it is increasing as the media age of Americans get older, too.

It's ONLY going to get worse, folks.

An aging population, and a population whose incomes are declining combine to make HC a real problem regardless of what solutions we apply or don't apply.

Tryingot blame liberals or capitalists or socialism or capitalism for this state of affairs might be satisfying for some of you ideaologues, but it is simply wrong.

Maybe you are talking about individuals, instead of households but....
Are you sure about this number? $21,857?
Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The median income divides households in the US evenly in the middle with half of all household earning more than the median income and half of all households earning less than the median household income. In 2004 the median household income in the United States was $43,389.[citation needed] According to the US Census Bureau, the median is "considerably lower than the average, and provides a more accurate representation."[55] Considering other racial and geographical differences in regards to household income, it should come as no surprise that the median household income varies with race, size of household and geography. The state with the highest median household income in the United States as of the US Census Bureau 2005/06 is New Jersey with $66,752, followed by Maryland, Hawaii and Connecticut, making the Northeastern United States the wealthiest area by income in the entire country.[56] In terms of region the median household income was as follows: "Northeast ($47,994), West ($47,680) and South ($40,773)." Median household income in the Mid-West declined by 2.8% to $44,657.[57] While median household income has a tendency to increase up to four persons per household, it declines thereon after. This indicated that while four person households have larger incomes than those with one, two or three members, households seem to earn progressively less as their size increases beyond four persons. According to the US Census Bureau 2004 Community Survey, two-person households had a median income of $39,755, with $48,957 for three-person households, $54,338 for four-person households, $50,905 for five-person households, $45,435 for six-person households, with seven-or-more-person households having the second lowest median income of only $42,471..[58] In terms of race, Asian-Americans households had the highest median household income of $57,518, European-American households ranked second with $48,977, Hispanic or Latino households ranked third with $34,241. African American or Black households had the lowest median household income of all races with $30,134.[57]

 

[jreeves]

Right has nothing to do with it. This poster thinks his insults better input than a factually supportive response.

Asking a neo con to think for his or her self is a non starter. They let thier idols do the thinking. Thier job is to scorch the earth on those that can't be conned.

I'm waiting for the day the libs do their thinking for themselves, and quit thinking that our government is the answer. The brightest people in this great nation aren't in our government...they're in our private sector.
Huggy you let the government do your thinking for you...that's where it starts and ends for you. The government has problems with SS, they have problems with medicare, and you want them to take over the healthcare? I see no thought process on your end with that.

THE PROBLEM is that there is no viable alternative. I'd gladly climb on board for some new, proven less costly solutions. I have never been a strong advocate for universal health care, for the very reasons you state. IF it could be done in a cost-effective manner, however, I would probably be all for it. But I do advocate the health care insurance being proposed. To me, that's a decent compromise because THE PROBLEM is the number of Americans caught between a rock and a hard place--they aren't old enough for Medicare and earn too much to qualify for Medicaid--yet their personal out-of-pocket expenses for health care are breaking their backs.

You are aware of the 47 million uninsured, reported by Obama, that 10 million are not American citizens?

Furthermore, we could reduce costs drastically if we prevented chronic disease through education and better diet.
THE ROOT CAUSE OF RISING HEALTH CARE COSTS: CHRONIC DISEASE
Recently, President Barack Obama has reaffirmed his conviction that we must have quality, affordable health care for every American. This is an important goal. But as lawmakers move forward, they must be aware of the facts. And they must be clear on the precise causes of America's health care woes, says Peter Pitts, president of the Center for Medicine in the Public Interest.

Take the president's claim that the number of uninsured "now totals 45.7 million Americans." Although the Census Bureau puts the number of uninsured U.S. residents at approximately 46 million, its report clearly states that 10 million of them are noncitizens, and almost 18 million make $50,000 a year or more, yet have chosen not to purchase health insurance.

What's most concerning is that these inflated statistics are distracting us from addressing the root causes of our nation's ballooning health care costs, says Pitts:

* Of the $2.2 trillion America spends each year on health care, 75 percent of that money goes to fighting chronic diseases, many of which are preventable but require regular treatment; it's for this reason that treating chronic conditions carries such a hefty price tag.
* And the problem is getting worse; between 1980 and 2006, the incidence of diabetes tripled, triggering a massive increase in health care spending; heart disease and related illnesses will cost Americans over $304 billion this year alone.
* In 2005, nearly half of all Americans were suffering from at least one chronic disease.

Luckily, huge strides can be made toward this goal by empowering Americans through better health education. Informing citizens about good diet and exercise habits would go a long way toward curbing the incidence of obesity, a condition that often deteriorates into more costly chronic illnesses, says Pitts.


It's not so much that American health care costs more, its that Americans live more unhealthy lives.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yeah, it's just a normal part of our day to get smacked down when we post OUR backup information. You guys think you're always right, all the time because you are so tightly restricted by your own backup reading. So tell us again? If you're so "right" about everything, how come you're all running around sans a party to call your own with no cohesive alternatives? I keep Jack Kemp's quotation visible for a purpose. Think about it for a change.

Chris can go fuck himself.....hes a dipship....

Right has nothing to do with it. This poster thinks his insults better input than a factually supportive response.

Asking a neo con to think for his or her self is a non starter. They let thier idols do the thinking. Thier job is to scorch the earth on those that can't be conned.

for you to refer to me as a NEO-CON Huggy tells me your as stupid as many on this board claim you are....and Chris does not have "factually supportive responses" he gets shot down time and time again because he uses the same dam old arguments every time.....but then....so do you....so why dont YOU try thinking for yourself and come up with something new,instead of what your NEO-LEFTIST idols tell you....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Right has nothing to do with it. This poster thinks his insults better input than a factually supportive response.

Asking a neo con to think for his or her self is a non starter. They let thier idols do the thinking. Thier job is to scorch the earth on those that can't be conned.

A lot of people, right and left, don't particularly like the ideal of turning their health care over to crooks(politicians) . Some people actually like to be able to get CT scans when they need them. Some people like to get Mri's when they need them....etc....

Some people like to be treated when they are injured or sick....

Those crazy neo cons want to get treated when their sick.....the nerve of them.

think about it,, obamalama has tasked nanci pop up pelosi with writing the legislation for health care reform dosen't that just the shit outta you??

it dont scare Huggy or Chrissy because Michael Moore told them "dont worry about it"

 

[Harry Dresden]

Right has nothing to do with it. This poster thinks his insults better input than a factually supportive response.

Asking a neo con to think for his or her self is a non starter. They let thier idols do the thinking. Thier job is to scorch the earth on those that can't be conned.

I'm waiting for the day the libs do their thinking for themselves, and quit thinking that our government is the answer. The brightest people in this great nation aren't in our government...they're in our private sector.
Huggy you let the government do your thinking for you...that's where it starts and ends for you. The government has problems with SS, they have problems with medicare, and you want them to take over the healthcare? I see no thought process on your end with that.

THE PROBLEM is that there is no viable alternative. I'd gladly climb on board for some new, proven less costly solutions. I have never been a strong advocate for universal health care, for the very reasons you state. IF it could be done in a cost-effective manner, however, I would probably be all for it. But I do advocate the health care insurance being proposed. To me, that's a decent compromise because THE PROBLEM is the number of Americans caught between a rock and a hard place--they aren't old enough for Medicare and earn too much to qualify for Medicaid--yet their personal out-of-pocket expenses for health care are breaking their backs.

and you make some good points Maggie....but having our Uncle Sam have a say in this may make things worse OR just as bad....

 

[Harry Dresden]

A lot of people, right and left, don't particularly like the ideal of turning their health care over to crooks(politicians) . Some people actually like to be able to get CT scans when they need them. Some people like to get Mri's when they need them....etc....

Some people like to be treated when they are injured or sick....

Those crazy neo cons want to get treated when their sick.....the nerve of them.

think about it,, obamalama has tasked nanci pop up pelosi with writing the legislation for health care reform dosen't that just the shit outta you??

She didn't write squat. Which is another total MISCONCEPTION. There is absolutely NOTHING, NADA, ZIP that has been sealed in concrete. The entire health care debate is currently only now being drafted in various versions by various congressional committees, the most recent (Friday) was Ted Kennedy's proposed plan. The entire subject has yet to be put in any type of form for floor debate, and thereafter there will be numerous amendment offerings, debate on those, etc., etc.

and having the "BLOB" have a say in this is just as scary....

 

[Soaring]

I am 65 and retired from government service. I make less than 40,000 a year, and although I am on medicare which I pay 96 bux a month for, I also am able to pay for a secondary medical insurance for my wife and me. I have grown so frustrated with hearing people gripe about health insurance and the cost of it. Face it, the democrats want what they consider "Free" healthcare. There ain't jackshit on this earth that is "Free." Instead of paying what I am currently affording, I will be required to pay more and receive less service. I will be paying more because I and others will be subsidizing the lazy assed drunks and welfare recipients who refuse to contribute to the welfare of our country monitarilly. The AMA needs to get off its' ass and tell congress they are against any government interference in the medical field. I have done the only thing that I can do as a sheeple. I have contacted my reps and stated that I do not want the government to interfere in the current medical field, and if they vote for Obama's proposal, I will vote for their competitor in 2010.

 

[Navy1960]

First jreeves good post, after reading the information which I had known already,what it all boils down to at least in my mind is a self management issue. Discounting, the fact after the numbers have been run that we have 85 plus percent of Americans convered and I suspect that number is higher if you take into account the factors presented above, does not sound much like a crisis due to lack of coverage. It does however sound like Govt. does not have a firm grasp on what their responsibilites are which is nothing new, and as a result are over-stepping , again nothing new. If our Govt. would get back into the business of creating a friendly environment for comeptetion i.e. regulating commerce then through competetion, prices would come down. One more factor, here is prevention, again this is an educational issue and for those who choose to not listen and continue lifestyles that are unhealthy then scream for healthcare to offset that at the taxpayers expense, that needs to be stopped. This call for Govt. mandated healthcare when it comes down to it is nothing more than the Govt.s inability to actually solve the problem and further add fire to a generation of individuals that feel as if the Govt. is there not only to represent them but is also there to take care of them.

 

[HUGGY]

First jreeves good post, after reading the information which I had known already,what it all boils down to at least in my mind is a self management issue. Discounting, the fact after the numbers have been run that we have 85 plus percent of Americans convered and I suspect that number is higher if you take into account the factors presented above, does not sound much like a crisis due to lack of coverage. It does however sound like Govt. does not have a firm grasp on what their responsibilites are which is nothing new, and as a result are over-stepping , again nothing new. If our Govt. would get back into the business of creating a friendly environment for comeptetion i.e. regulating commerce then through competetion, prices would come down. One more factor, here is prevention, again this is an educational issue and for those who choose to not listen and continue lifestyles that are unhealthy then scream for healthcare to offset that at the taxpayers expense, that needs to be stopped. This call for Govt. mandated healthcare when it comes down to it is nothing more than the Govt.s inability to actually solve the problem and further add fire to a generation of individuals that feel as if the Govt. is there not only to represent them but is also there to take care of them.

Good then you won't mind if we dump that costly vet medical care and let you "manage" your own health.

 

[jreeves]

First jreeves good post, after reading the information which I had known already,what it all boils down to at least in my mind is a self management issue. Discounting, the fact after the numbers have been run that we have 85 plus percent of Americans convered and I suspect that number is higher if you take into account the factors presented above, does not sound much like a crisis due to lack of coverage. It does however sound like Govt. does not have a firm grasp on what their responsibilites are which is nothing new, and as a result are over-stepping , again nothing new. If our Govt. would get back into the business of creating a friendly environment for comeptetion i.e. regulating commerce then through competetion, prices would come down. One more factor, here is prevention, again this is an educational issue and for those who choose to not listen and continue lifestyles that are unhealthy then scream for healthcare to offset that at the taxpayers expense, that needs to be stopped. This call for Govt. mandated healthcare when it comes down to it is nothing more than the Govt.s inability to actually solve the problem and further add fire to a generation of individuals that feel as if the Govt. is there not only to represent them but is also there to take care of them.

Good then you won't mind if we dump that costly vet medical care and let you "manage" your own health.

Ah yes, when all else fails attack someone's vet status? What a fucking low move, you do realize he served to earn that benefit?
You piece of shit....show some gratitude

 

[Navy1960]

Huggy do you know the difference between my TRICARE and let's say a single payer system where a person can apply for a "waiver" and not have to pay for Govt. sponsored healthcare and the taxes I pay now would go to pay for their medical insurance? The difference is actually quite simple, I and many like me earned what we have it was not given to us, just like a person who would work daily to pay for their familes healthcare that too is not given to them they earn it. What I have always proposed is an environment where people who WISH to have medical insurance be able to find it and purchase it. With the proper incentives. an environment can established where competetion brings down the cost, making it affordable to those who don't have it. Those who do not wish to have medical insurance do so by choice and exercise a freedom they are allowed to in this nation.

 

[Chris]

First jreeves good post, after reading the information which I had known already,what it all boils down to at least in my mind is a self management issue. Discounting, the fact after the numbers have been run that we have 85 plus percent of Americans convered and I suspect that number is higher if you take into account the factors presented above, does not sound much like a crisis due to lack of coverage. It does however sound like Govt. does not have a firm grasp on what their responsibilites are which is nothing new, and as a result are over-stepping , again nothing new. If our Govt. would get back into the business of creating a friendly environment for comeptetion i.e. regulating commerce then through competetion, prices would come down. One more factor, here is prevention, again this is an educational issue and for those who choose to not listen and continue lifestyles that are unhealthy then scream for healthcare to offset that at the taxpayers expense, that needs to be stopped. This call for Govt. mandated healthcare when it comes down to it is nothing more than the Govt.s inability to actually solve the problem and further add fire to a generation of individuals that feel as if the Govt. is there not only to represent them but is also there to take care of them.

I agree, Navy.

Therefore, I suggest you forgo your military pension and healthcare.

 

[jreeves]

First jreeves good post, after reading the information which I had known already,what it all boils down to at least in my mind is a self management issue. Discounting, the fact after the numbers have been run that we have 85 plus percent of Americans convered and I suspect that number is higher if you take into account the factors presented above, does not sound much like a crisis due to lack of coverage. It does however sound like Govt. does not have a firm grasp on what their responsibilites are which is nothing new, and as a result are over-stepping , again nothing new. If our Govt. would get back into the business of creating a friendly environment for comeptetion i.e. regulating commerce then through competetion, prices would come down. One more factor, here is prevention, again this is an educational issue and for those who choose to not listen and continue lifestyles that are unhealthy then scream for healthcare to offset that at the taxpayers expense, that needs to be stopped. This call for Govt. mandated healthcare when it comes down to it is nothing more than the Govt.s inability to actually solve the problem and further add fire to a generation of individuals that feel as if the Govt. is there not only to represent them but is also there to take care of them.

I agree, Navy.

Therefore, I suggest you forgo your military pension and healthcare.

As soon as you put yourself in harm's way for your country's sake. Then you will be able to reject your medical coverage. Until then you can STFU because you haven't earned medical coverage through your service....

 

[DiveCon]

gee, why am i not surprised

chris and huggy both pissing on vets

fucking morons they are

 

[Harry Dresden]

gee, why am i not surprised

chris and huggy both pissing on vets

fucking morons they are

Michael Moore told them too....

 

[Navy1960]

Chris, I'd be happy to comply with your wishes if you would be so kind as to ask Congress and the President to forgo their salaries and pensions as well, when I get the memo. You will see me in line to do my part. Seriously though Chris, the difference here is actually quite simple, I'm not taking what I have not earned and did not contract for and did not sacrifice for. It's not like I was elected to represent California as the democrat from San Francisco for 8 years sitting on my ass then get a nice pension and benefits afterwards. We actually had to earn ours, a concept that seems lost on the about half the American public these day's, hard work, sacrifice, and serving something greater than yourself. These days simply by consuming space and absorbing oxygen one feels entitled to things they do not earn. So again Chris call your Congressman, Senator and President Obama and once I get the news I'd be only too happy to comply with your wishes.

 

[Chris]

Chris, I'd be happy to comply with your wishes if you would be so kind as to ask Congress and the President to forgo their salaries and pensions as well, when I get the memo. You will see me in line to do my part. Seriously though Chris, the difference here is actually quite simple, I'm not taking what I have not earned and did not contract for and did not sacrifice for. It's not like I was elected to represent California as the democrat from San Francisco for 8 years sitting on my ass then get a nice pension and benefits afterwards. We actually had to earn ours, a concept that seems lost on the about half the American public these day's, hard work, sacrifice, and serving something greater than yourself. These days simply by consuming space and absorbing oxygen one feels entitled to things they do not earn. So again Chris call your Congressman, Senator and President Obama and once I get the news I'd be only too happy to comply with your wishes.

Thanks for proving my point.

The only people who are supported for life by the government are politicians and retired military.