Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments

[Soggy in NOLA]

Obviously but that's not the issue. The issue is that the richest men in America pay less percentage wise in taxes then you probably do because of some loopholes that their accountants find and fully exploit. They aren't paying their fair share and that needs to be changed. If it was a fair system then receipts would definitely increase.

Oh brother. So, the fate of the American budget lies at the feet of 1% of the taxpayers?

That's just brilliant.. really.

This scam has gone on for over a decade now and it's a huge reason why the debt has skyrocketed. The top 1% isn't paying their fair share because they aren't paying 35% in income tax. It's more like 15% to 20% while your average middle class person is paying 25% or so.

Make the top 1% pay the damn rates that they are supposed to pay and it will certainly help. Then you can cut programs but cutting stuff and not addressing the tax issue will only mean middle class pain and the top 1% will not be affected at all by it.

And what rate is it that they, as you say, "are supposed to pay". And define fair? I'm a six-figure guy... what should I pay, according to you? And what rate should you pay?

And while you're in the mood to answer questions... who appointed you God anyway?

 

[DontBeStupid]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

 

[Toro]

The Dems need to stop playing games with taxes being raised.
Reid is being stubborn and will not compromise.
He knows that it will not pass in the house to raise any taxes now.
Even when the Dems were in the majority they could not get anything passed to raise taxes right now.

Raise taxes.
Cut spending.

Do it 3:1 spending cuts. But if the GOP are serious about the deficit, taxes must rise.

 

[Bern80]

There are a lot of thins that could be done to cut the budget deficit and overall debt and still keep many social programs intact. But allowing our already horribly fiscally irrespnsible government to borrow yet more money it will have a hard time paying back without government drastically changing how it does business is not a workable long term solution.

Using the debt limit requirement in the Constitution to control spending makes no sense. It is Congress that has approved government financial obligations. Now Congress is deciding whether they will honor their obligations.

The place to control spending is through the budget. If the budget process does not work, the process needs to change.

You seem to be suggesting that the best way to make the process 'work' is simply let congress borrow whatever they want.

Yes the process needs to change. A balanced budget amendment would be good. But the fact is that is basically what denyiny an increase in the debt cieling would be. It would be a self imposed budget balancing measure that says "okay folks you can't keep piling ever more money. When you reach the debt cieling, you're done."

Or, and I believe some congressman has already authored this bill, a measure that says government may not have a budget that exceeds 20% of GDP.

 

[WillowTree]

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.

Poor old Don'tBeStupid

 

[WillowTree]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

so did you successfully explain why obie noodle says the ss checks will stop?

 

[Toro]

Sorry, I wasn't aware Social Security had become a "serious subject", considering its been headed down this path of bankrupcy for decades and no one has done anything to fix it.

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

Then why are they claiming that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, SS checks won't go out?

They can go out, but SS, Medicare and defense are $2.4 trillion in expenditures while total revenue is $2.2 trillion. Interest is $200 billion so we have to find at least $400 billion from somewhere, assuming that the $1.4 trillion spent on everything else goes to $0.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

Doubt all you want.... These "assets" are only as good as the ability to readily convert them into cash as far as liquidity is concerned. And the fact that they are borrowing money to make the payments means those assets aren't very liquid.. in fact, they are probably worthless.

 

[DontBeStupid]

BTW... I am a CPA.

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

so did you successfully explain why obie noodle says the ss checks will stop?

I did. You must have missed it. Or chose not to read. Or just don't understand it.

 

[Urkie]

And what rate is it that they, as you say, "are supposed to pay". And define fair? I'm a six-figure guy... what should I pay, according to you? And what rate should you pay?

And while you're in the mood to answer questions... who appointed you God anyway?

I told you the top earners should pay 35%. They don't because of capital gains and other exemptions. I have no problem with the rates, I have a problem with the avenues the top earners can take to avoid it.

Fair? Again, it would be fair if everyone paid the rate that they're supposed to.

What should you pay? 28% or 33% depending on how much income you make. I should pay 25%. That's what the current income tax policy says and I have no issue you with it.

God? lol...no I just want you to realize that the system is catered to people in the top tax bracket.

 

[Toro]

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.

I'm an MBA and a CFA and have spent my career in and around pension funds.

SS is about the single worst way to design a pension plan IMO but the IOUs are as much assets as are government bonds. If SS were instead composed of 100% Treasury bonds, the economics would be the same.

 

[DontBeStupid]

in fact, they are probably worthless.

They are only worthless if the Government chooses not to honour them. There are ways of easily getting cash in the short-term to redeem bonds. The GOP just doesn't want to allow any of those ways to happen.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

Then why are they claiming that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, SS checks won't go out?

They can go out, but SS, Medicare and defense are $2.4 trillion in expenditures while total revenue is $2.2 trillion. Interest is $200 billion so we have to find at least $400 billion from somewhere, assuming that the $1.4 trillion spent on everything else goes to $0.

That's a valid assessment, but he point I am making is, SS is a pension fund, and as such, a trust fund. As such, it should be self-sufficient. The payments into the trust fund should be generating enough revenue to cover the costs and the outflows.

But.. it ain't because SS receipts have been used for decades to finance deficit spending.

 

[WillowTree]

I HIGHLY doubt this. Otherwise you would not be dismissing $2.5T in assets as mere "IOUs".

so did you successfully explain why obie noodle says the ss checks will stop?

I did. You must have missed it. Or chose not to read. Or just don't understand it.

so he lied?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

in fact, they are probably worthless.

They are only worthless if the Government chooses not to honour them. There are ways of easily getting cash in the short-term to redeem bonds. The GOP just doesn't want to allow any of those ways to happen.

They are worthless if the only way to honor them is to borrow more money. That is unsustainable.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.

You maybe a CPA, you are without doubt a right winger. That said, who is the "I" in IOU?

 

[DontBeStupid]

the point I am making is, SS is a pension fund, and as such, a trust fund. As such, it should be self-sufficient. The payments into the trust fund should be generating enough revenue to cover the costs and the outflows.

But.. it ain't because SS receipts have been used for decades to finance deficit spending.

"It ain't" only because you have decided that government bonds are "worthless". By your standard, virtually every pension fund in this country is "bankrupt".

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.

I'm an MBA and a CFA and have spent my career in and around pension funds.

SS is about the single worst way to design a pension plan IMO but the IOUs are as much assets as are government bonds. If SS were instead composed of 100% Treasury bonds, the economics would be the same.

And had I filled my client's poension funds with IOU's, where would I be today?

 

[WillowTree]

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.

You maybe a CPA, you are without doubt a right winger. That said, who is the "I" in IOU?

Piss on Leftwingers.

 

[DontBeStupid]

They are worthless if the only way to honor them is to borrow more money. That is unsustainable.

You know full well that is not the only way to honour them.