Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments

[Claudette]

Who says they will chose to cut SS or Medicare or the paychecks to the military??

The party in power will chose what to cut.

Of course if you claim your going to have to cut SS, Medicare or paychecks to the military and are doing so because you can't reach an agreement with the GOP then of course its the GOP's fault. Right??

Of course it is.

House Republicans have refused to raise the debt limit without concessions from Senate Democrats. Whether voters hold the Republicans or Democrats responsible for any resulting financial crisis depends on whether there is a crisis and how serious it is. If the crisis is serious enough to cause a major sell off in stocks and bonds and triggers another recession you can bet voters will hold Republicans responsible for a failed risky plan to bring about deficit reduction.

The other side is if the Dems made the concessions, no default.

I guess its in how you look at it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Who says they will chose to cut SS or Medicare or the paychecks to the military??

The party in power will chose what to cut.

Of course if you claim your going to have to cut SS, Medicare or paychecks to the military and are doing so because you can't reach an agreement with the GOP then of course its the GOP's fault. Right??

Of course it is.

House Republicans have refused to raise the debt limit without concessions from Senate Democrats. Whether voters hold the Republicans or Democrats responsible for any resulting financial crisis depends on whether there is a crisis and how serious it is. If the crisis is serious enough to cause a major sell off in stocks and bonds and triggers another recession you can bet voters will hold Republicans responsible for a failed risky plan to bring about deficit reduction.

The other side is if the Dems made the concessions, no default.

I guess its in how you look at it.

Perspective is very important, have you tried it?

One of the Koch Brothers purchased a photo of Billy the Kid (how appropriate) for over $3 million dollars. Hey, it's his money so he can do what he wants. But (BUT) the Republicans and their echos argue the rich create the jobs, government cannot. Consider, how many jobs brother Koch could have provided for willing unemployed workers? How their families would benefit and the community wherein they lived.

Of course I suspect he deserves a tax cut, there so much art to collect and some of it is soooooo expensive.

 

[theHawk]

House Republicans have refused to raise the debt limit without concessions from Senate Democrats. Whether voters hold the Republicans or Democrats responsible for any resulting financial crisis depends on whether there is a crisis and how serious it is. If the crisis is serious enough to cause a major sell off in stocks and bonds and triggers another recession you can bet voters will hold Republicans responsible for a failed risky plan to bring about deficit reduction.

The other side is if the Dems made the concessions, no default.

I guess its in how you look at it.

Perspective is very important, have you tried it?

One of the Koch Brothers purchased a photo of Billy the Kid (how appropriate) for over $3 million dollars. Hey, it's his money so he can do what he wants. But (BUT) the Republicans and their echos argue the rich create the jobs, government cannot. Consider, how many jobs brother Koch could have provided for willing unemployed workers? How their families would benefit and the community wherein they lived.

Of course I suspect he deserves a tax cut, there so much art to collect and some of it is soooooo expensive.

So why can't the guy who sold the photo use the money to create jobs?

 

[Momanohedhunter]

WASHINGTON — Social Security payments to millions of retirees and people with disabilities could be threatened if President Obama and Congress can't agree to increase the government's debt limit by Aug. 2, a new analysis shows.

Although the Treasury Department likely could avoid delaying Social Security checks, the analysis by the Bipartisan Policy Center points up the depth of the cuts that would be needed if the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling isn't raised.

It shows that in August, the government could not afford to meet 44% of its obligations. Since the $134 billion deficit for that month couldn't be covered with more borrowing, programs would have to be cut.

If Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, payments to defense contractors and interest payments on Treasury bonds were exempt, that would be all the government could afford for the month. No money for troops or veterans. No tax refunds. No food stamps or welfare. No federal salaries or benefits.

Want to protect the social safety net? That would be possible — but only if Treasury stopped paying defense contractors, jeopardizing national security. Plus virtually every federal agency and employee.

"We should be honest with ourselves what this would be like, and the answer is it would be chaotic," said Jay Powell, a former top Treasury official in President George H.W. Bush's administration. "There is no way to avoid really serious pain."

The Bipartisan Policy Center studied Treasury Department receipts and spending for August 2009 and 2010 and found that the government likely would not have enough revenue to make the full $23 billion payment to Social Security recipients due Aug. 3. That's the first Wednesday of the month, when a majority of Social Security and Supplemental Security Income checks go out.

Things wouldn't improve much as the days pass. The first major interest payment to creditors would be due Aug. 15 — $29 billion, more than the $22 billion due to arrive in revenue.

On that day, Treasury would have to roll over nearly $500 billion in maturing debt — necessitating an auction which, by that time, might have fewer takers than usual. If demand declines, interest rates would rise.

As the center foresees it, the picture would get worse: layoffs and lawsuits. Global market reaction and media glare. A possible downgrade in the U.S. credit rating, perhaps followed by the loss of market access.
The effect on the country, said former Republican senator Pete Domenici of New Mexico, would be "irretrievable."

Debt-limit delay would jeopardize Social Security payments - USATODAY.com

My gooness, they should have saved ! That way there useless SSI benefits not coming in would not hurt so bad.

 

[Urkie]

The tax rate issue is the biggest issue or at least it should be. The entire system needs to be fixed so that it works the way it was originally designed to work and actually be a progressive tax system. Why should a guy making $70,000 pay more taxes percentage wise then a millionaire? Why should people in the middle class get the shaft because the top income earners aren't paying their fair share?

Instead the right will hold on to this idea that raising taxes on the rich is just going to mean more job loss and we'll see the end of programs like Social Security and Medicare. We'll see Education cuts, teachers losing their jobs and a much higher percent of people not even graduating from high school. People who lost their jobs and are looking for jobs currently will no longer get unemployment. All the pain goes to the middle class and the rich keep on getting richer.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The other side is if the Dems made the concessions, no default.

I guess its in how you look at it.

The Dems have already made concessions. A LOT of concessions. The fact that cutting spending now is a terrible idea for the economy, the fact the Dems agreed to any cuts is great.

And what revenue increases have the GOP agreed to? Oh right. None. They actually got in a huff and stormed out when someone suggested we tax hedge fund managers the same as regular working people.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Sorry, I wasn't aware Social Security had become a "serious subject", considering its been headed down this path of bankrupcy for decades and no one has done anything to fix it.

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Who says they will chose to cut SS or Medicare or the paychecks to the military??

The party in power will chose what to cut.

Of course if you claim your going to have to cut SS, Medicare or paychecks to the military and are doing so because you can't reach an agreement with the GOP then of course its the GOP's fault. Right??

Of course it is.

House Republicans have refused to raise the debt limit without concessions from Senate Democrats. Whether voters hold the Republicans or Democrats responsible for any resulting financial crisis depends on whether there is a crisis and how serious it is. If the crisis is serious enough to cause a major sell off in stocks and bonds and triggers another recession you can bet voters will hold Republicans responsible for a failed risky plan to bring about deficit reduction.

The other side is if the Dems made the concessions, no default.

I guess its in how you look at it.

Excellent point. Why is it that it always seems it's the Republicans who have to cede their ground, but never the Democrats?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Who says they will chose to cut SS or Medicare or the paychecks to the military??

The party in power will chose what to cut.

Of course if you claim your going to have to cut SS, Medicare or paychecks to the military and are doing so because you can't reach an agreement with the GOP then of course its the GOP's fault. Right??

Of course it is.

House Republicans have refused to raise the debt limit without concessions from Senate Democrats. Whether voters hold the Republicans or Democrats responsible for any resulting financial crisis depends on whether there is a crisis and how serious it is. If the crisis is serious enough to cause a major sell off in stocks and bonds and triggers another recession you can bet voters will hold Republicans responsible for a failed risky plan to bring about deficit reduction.

To help the situation we need to cut expensis and raise revenue

A growing economy will generate increased receipts.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Sorry, I wasn't aware Social Security had become a "serious subject", considering its been headed down this path of bankrupcy for decades and no one has done anything to fix it.

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

It's already in the red, so it's taking in less than it's now paying out.

Rash of retirements pushes Social Security to brink - USATODAY.com

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Sorry, I wasn't aware Social Security had become a "serious subject", considering its been headed down this path of bankrupcy for decades and no one has done anything to fix it.

FYI. SS is not headed to bankruptcy. They can continue making payments for generations to come.

Then why are they claiming that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, SS checks won't go out?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Why is it that it always seems it's the Republicans who have to cede their ground, but never the Democrats?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, good one. Damn! Wow! Oh, shit ....

thanks, I needed a laugh

 

[DontBeStupid]

It's already in the red, so it's taking in less than it's now paying out.

Rash of retirements pushes Social Security to brink - USATODAY.com

From the article:

"accumulating a $2.5 trillion trust fund."

You can thank me later.

 

[Urkie]

A growing economy will generate increased receipts.

Obviously but that's not the issue. The issue is that the richest men in America pay less percentage wise in taxes then you probably do because of some loopholes that their accountants find and fully exploit. They aren't paying their fair share and that needs to be changed. If it was a fair system then receipts would definitely increase.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Then why are they claiming that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, SS checks won't go out?

Oh come on. Seriously? Do I have to explain how SS works to you?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A growing economy will generate increased receipts.

Obviously but that's not the issue. The issue is that the richest men in America pay less percentage wise in taxes then you probably do because of some loopholes that their accountants find and fully exploit. They aren't paying their fair share and that needs to be changed. If it was a fair system then receipts would definitely increase.

Oh brother. So, the fate of the American budget lies at the feet of 1% of the taxpayers?

That's just brilliant.. really.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Then why are they claiming that if the debt ceiling isn't raised, SS checks won't go out?

Oh come on. Seriously? Do I have to explain how SS works to you?

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

 

[Urkie]

A growing economy will generate increased receipts.

Obviously but that's not the issue. The issue is that the richest men in America pay less percentage wise in taxes then you probably do because of some loopholes that their accountants find and fully exploit. They aren't paying their fair share and that needs to be changed. If it was a fair system then receipts would definitely increase.

Oh brother. So, the fate of the American budget lies at the feet of 1% of the taxpayers?

That's just brilliant.. really.

This scam has gone on for over a decade now and it's a huge reason why the debt has skyrocketed. The top 1% isn't paying their fair share because they aren't paying 35% in income tax. It's more like 15% to 20% while your average middle class person is paying 25% or so.

Make the top 1% pay the damn rates that they are supposed to pay and it will certainly help. Then you can cut programs but cutting stuff and not addressing the tax issue will only mean middle class pain and the top 1% will not be affected at all by it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Please.. explain to me how something is solvent yet we need to borrow money to make payments from it. I'm dying to hear this one.

$2.5T. That's what the SS trust fund has right now. Unless it needs to pay over that amount right now, it's solvent.

Now, as has already been stated, SS is bringing in less right now than it's paying out. That's a cash flow problem easily fixed by cashing in some bonds. Of course, it can't do that if the government doesn't have the funds for those bonds, so SS is stuck, but not due to any problems with SS.

Simple accounting really.

The SS fund is full of IOU's. And if those IOU's can't easily be converted into cash (which they can't) then it is insolvent. It's called a liquidity problem and is at the heart of most bankruptcies. Oh, and if you did this kind of pension theft in private industry, you'd go to jail for a very long time.

BTW... I am a CPA.