Daunting space mission: Send astronauts to asteroid

[American Horse]

Quantum, this asteroid ride concept seems to be some kind of "spin off" from the Aldrin Mars Cycler which actually does have merit and is very interesting.

 

[percysunshine]

Not to politicize this too much, but I think Joe Biden should be the first astronaut to ride bareback on an asteroid.

 

[American Horse]

Too late, Rdean already threw that stone

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quantum, this asteroid ride concept seems to be some kind of "spin off" from the Aldrin Mars Cycler which actually does have merit and is very interesting.

I am still waiting for someone to build an elevator.

The Spaceward Foundation

That would be a project worthy of a few trillion dollars, and would pay for itself pretty quick.

 

[American Horse]

Quantum, this asteroid ride concept seems to be some kind of "spin off" from the Aldrin Mars Cycler which actually does have merit and is very interesting.

I am still waiting for someone to build an elevator.

The Spaceward Foundation

That would be a project worthy of a few trillion dollars, and would pay for itself pretty quick.

The space elevator is the brainchild or Arthur C. Clarke. Kim Stanley Robinson, in his trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars) develops that idea in a place where it might actually be practical, Mars.

The Martian colonists of the future move an asteroid into a "GEO"stationary orbit, and an elevator is built of carbon-nano-fibres. They name the asteroid "Clarke" after the idea's creater. The critical point is that the space end off the elevator has to have sufficient mass to serve as a counterweight able to support the whole tether down to the ground and be held in a very stationary orbit in relation to the surface.

The elevation of the upper terminus could be much lower on Mars as compared to Earth. Would inertial momentum be adequate to act as a counterweight or would the strand have to be in some way self supporting compressively? In his novel, the Martian moon Phobos has to be raised to a higher orbit to prevent it from striking the space elevator as it orbits Mars.

In his novel the elevator is destroyed in a civil war between factions, which would correspond to the "Greens" in our present day, and Corporate/Industrial interests and those who lived near and benefited from the elevator. As the untethered elevator strand falls and as Mars rotates all that carbon fiber wraps itself around the planet several times.

I'm not able to recall for certain, but it seems that a second elevator is built with Phobos as a counterweight. And like the first one it is destroyed and Phobos is ejected into the outer solar system. There was a colony on it, to service the elevator and the terminal and some folks bailed out; others chose to go with it.

 

[HenryBHough]

yeah, Bush Sr. sold China space technology as well, so let china take care of it.

In retrospect, a good thing he did. Else the knowledge would be lost to the world forever.

 

[rdean]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

 

[rdean]

Imagine having enough of a brain to realize that the asteroids you are talking about are outside the orbit of Mars.

We have Trojan asteroids sharing our orbit. I wasn't going to respond to you because you are just so stupid, but I couldn't resist that one. You probably think I'm suggesting there's condoms in space.

There is one (1) trojan asteroid that has been confirmed leading the Earth in its orbit around the sun, and zero (0) following it.

Which one of is stupid?

Scientists had predicted Earth should have Trojans, but they have been difficult to find because they are relatively small and appear near the sun from Earth's point of view.

"These asteroids dwell mostly in the daylight, making them very hard to see," said Martin Connors of Athabasca University in Canada, lead author of a new paper on the discovery in the July 28 issue of the journal Nature. "But we finally found one, because the object has an unusual orbit that takes it farther away from the sun than what is typical for Trojans. WISE was a game-changer, giving us a point of view difficult to have at Earth's surface."

NASA - NASA's WISE Mission Finds First Trojan Asteroid Sharing Earth's Orbit

----------------------------------------------

You, obviously.

 

[American Horse]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

All that is fine, and no one doubts there are plenty of minable resources on asteroids, but a platform like the moon, where all the same resources can be found, is way more practical and far better training and preparation for going to Mars.

So much of that in your post is blarney, Dean, and has to be taken with a grain of salt. We hopefully will do it all, but it's much farther into the future than the Moon then Mars. Even the resources we find in asteroids have more application on the Moon and Mars than without those two manned bases of operations.

It's the equivalent of "getting the cart before the horse."

For all your constant haranguing of the "right wing" (etal) they have a quality that you miss: they are first of all practical.

Furthermore there's no reason to go the asteroids to deflect them; we can recon those (WISE) in towards the sun which are invisible coming at us by satellites, and we can calculate mathematically the results of any actions we might take in their regard without going there and trying it first hand. The claim that that was a primary purpose by NASA to visit an asteroid (holy cow! in 2025 yet!) was an agency in search of a purpose, and a reason to find something positive in what they have to buy into . . . . or lose their jobs. It’s so sad what's happened to NASA.

 

[daveman]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

All that is fine, and no one doubts there are plenty of minable resources on asteroids, but a platform like the moon, where all the same resources can be found, is way more practical and far better training and preparation for going to Mars.

So much of that in your post is blarney, Dean, and has to be taken with a grain of salt. We hopefully will do it all, but it's much farther into the future than the Moon then Mars. Even the resources we find in asteroids have more application on the Moon and Mars than without those two manned bases of operations.

It's the equivalent of "getting the cart before the horse."

For all your constant haranguing of the "right wing" (etal) they have a quality that you miss: they are first of all practical.

Furthermore there's no reason to go the asteroids to deflect them; we can recon those (WISE) in towards the sun which are invisible coming at us by satellites, and we can calculate mathematically the results of any actions we might take in their regard without going there and trying it first hand. The claim that that was a primary purpose by NASA to visit an asteroid (holy cow! in 2025 yet!) was an agency in search of a purpose, and a reason to find something positive in what they have to buy into . . . . or lose their jobs. It’s so sad what's happened to NASA.

Two facts that rderp refuses to take into consideration (probably because he hasn't been programmed with them):

The moon is better than the asteroids for mining because:

1. It has all the resources of the asteroids, and they're easier to get to and exploit.

2. You can't fall off the moon. It's easier to do a lot of things in a gravity well than in free-fall.

 

[Conservative]

Quantum, this asteroid ride concept seems to be some kind of "spin off" from the Aldrin Mars Cycler which actually does have merit and is very interesting.

I am still waiting for someone to build an elevator.

The Spaceward Foundation

That would be a project worthy of a few trillion dollars, and would pay for itself pretty quick.

While I'm a huge Sci Fi fan, and have seen & read multiple 'space elevator' stories, the practical reality is that it's unlikely we'll manage to see one in our lifetime.

Still, what stands between us and a space elevator is a large improvement in tether technology -- a macroscopic thread that takes full advantage of the incredible strength of CNTs. Beyond the tether, other challenges are relatively straight forward, and most certainly easier than the challenges faced by the architects of the Space Shuttle or space station.

The improvement in tether technology on a scale to allow even a small space elevator would be astronomical in nature. Let's not forget about space junk hitting the other end, or the tether itself... a plane flying through it... terrorists flying through it... etc etc etc.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

Do you know how long the right wing has been writing about mining asteroids? Have you ever heard of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We have Trojan asteroids sharing our orbit. I wasn't going to respond to you because you are just so stupid, but I couldn't resist that one. You probably think I'm suggesting there's condoms in space.

There is one (1) trojan asteroid that has been confirmed leading the Earth in its orbit around the sun, and zero (0) following it.

Which one of is stupid?

Scientists had predicted Earth should have Trojans, but they have been difficult to find because they are relatively small and appear near the sun from Earth's point of view.

"These asteroids dwell mostly in the daylight, making them very hard to see," said Martin Connors of Athabasca University in Canada, lead author of a new paper on the discovery in the July 28 issue of the journal Nature. "But we finally found one, because the object has an unusual orbit that takes it farther away from the sun than what is typical for Trojans. WISE was a game-changer, giving us a point of view difficult to have at Earth's surface."

NASA - NASA's WISE Mission Finds First Trojan Asteroid Sharing Earth's Orbit

----------------------------------------------

You, obviously.

Want to bet?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quantum, this asteroid ride concept seems to be some kind of "spin off" from the Aldrin Mars Cycler which actually does have merit and is very interesting.

I am still waiting for someone to build an elevator.

The Spaceward Foundation

That would be a project worthy of a few trillion dollars, and would pay for itself pretty quick.

While I'm a huge Sci Fi fan, and have seen & read multiple 'space elevator' stories, the practical reality is that it's unlikely we'll manage to see one in our lifetime.

Still, what stands between us and a space elevator is a large improvement in tether technology -- a macroscopic thread that takes full advantage of the incredible strength of CNTs. Beyond the tether, other challenges are relatively straight forward, and most certainly easier than the challenges faced by the architects of the Space Shuttle or space station.

The improvement in tether technology on a scale to allow even a small space elevator would be astronomical in nature. Let's not forget about space junk hitting the other end, or the tether itself... a plane flying through it... terrorists flying through it... etc etc etc.

Trust me, I understand the problems. I just think that, if we are going to concentrate on developing an entirely new technology to get into space, this is the one that makes the most sense. Once it is actually in place it will be relatively easy to defend, just set up a no fly zone around it and shoot down anything that gets within 100 miles. The problem with something hitting the end that is in space would be trickier, but if we can build it I am pretty sure we can cover that end also.

 

[American Horse]

I am still waiting for someone to build an elevator.

The Spaceward Foundation

That would be a project worthy of a few trillion dollars, and would pay for itself pretty quick.

While I'm a huge Sci Fi fan, and have seen & read multiple 'space elevator' stories, the practical reality is that it's unlikely we'll manage to see one in our lifetime.

Still, what stands between us and a space elevator is a large improvement in tether technology -- a macroscopic thread that takes full advantage of the incredible strength of CNTs. Beyond the tether, other challenges are relatively straight forward, and most certainly easier than the challenges faced by the architects of the Space Shuttle or space station.

The improvement in tether technology on a scale to allow even a small space elevator would be astronomical in nature. Let's not forget about space junk hitting the other end, or the tether itself... a plane flying through it... terrorists flying through it... etc etc etc.

Trust me, I understand the problems. I just think that, if we are going to concentrate on developing an entirely new technology to get into space, this is the one that makes the most sense. Once it is actually in place it will be relatively easy to defend, just set up a no fly zone around it and shoot down anything that gets within 100 miles. The problem with something hitting the end that is in space would be trickier, but if we can build it I am pretty sure we can cover that end also.

Keep in mind the tether would have to be a minimum of 25,000 (+ or -) in length, able to support all its weight while being of a size to provide traction for an elevator hauling some meaningful load, and anchored to a counterweight mass that would have to hauled up there to start with, and the construction would have to be from the top down, meaning all the tether material (what 10-20-feet in diameter?) would have to be hauled up there too.

A 25,000 mile trip/lift would take 50 hours (4-days) at 500-mph, and while material was going up none could go down, OR it would have to accommodate two way traffic at all times. A tether 10' in diameter of carbon, if this carbon weight was the same as water (nano-carbon is much much heavier) would weight 320 million tons; that's equivalent to 3.5 million freight cars. Five feet in diameter then? ... then assume 80 million tons and 900,000 freight cars. Two foot diameter?... then assume 13 million tons, 144,000 freight cars. (Kim Stanley Robinson in his book Red Mars, with whatever research he did on the subject, assumed a diameter of 30 meters)
Right now Falcon heavy could lift the equivalent of about one freight car.

Anyway, HERE'S a link to a post I made back in January 09 on this same subject with some interesting information, and a great image of a hollowed out asteroid orbiting Mars as a tether counterweight.

 

[rdean]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

Do you know how long the right wing has been writing about mining asteroids? Have you ever heard of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne?

Wait a second, you mean Republicans have a H. G. Wells AND a Jules Verne too?

Cuz the Wells I read about was a self proclaimed "socialist" and nearly every book Jules Verne wrote was "anti war".

Funny how you manage to call me stupid in nearly every post. And then with I quote your own words, you feel personally "attacked".

 

[rdean]

Asteroid Mining

. In addition to iron and nickel there is thought to be gold an platinum in some asteroids. Asteroids were formed in much the same way as the Earth, so it only makes sense that they contain many of the same minerals and raw ores as the Earth. In the future, miners will be asteroid mining.
Asteroids are classed in three types: More than 75% of them are C-type which are very much like the Sun, but less volatile. Then there are the S-type which contain iron, nickel, and magnesium for sure, but may also contain gold and platinum. Lastly, there are the M-type which contain iron and nickel. Astronomers know all of this by using telescopic spectroscopy, which analyzes light reflected from the asteroid’s surface, to find out what might be there. They also know that there is water and trapped oxygen on or in some of these asteroids. Asteroid mining would only be possible if miners could take advantage of the oxygen and water there. There is no other way to make a profit or carry all of the supplies that you would need for a long term project.

Water discovered on second asteroid, may be even more common

Water ice on asteroids may be more common than expected, according to a new study that is being presented at the world's largest gathering of planetary scientists.

"This discovery suggests that this region of our solar system contains more water ice than anticipated," said University of Central Florida Professor Humberto Campins. "And it supports the theory that asteroids may have hit Earth and brought our planet its water and the building blocks for life to form and evolve here.

Asteroids

Near-Earth asteroids, or NEA's, are asteroids that have orbits that pass close to that of Earth. Asteroids that actually cross the Earth's orbital path are known as Earth-crossers. As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known and the number over one kilometre in diameter is estimated to be 500–1,000.

It has been suggested that asteroids might be used as a source of materials that may be rare or exhausted on earth (asteroid mining), or materials for constructing space habitats (see Colonization of the asteroids). Materials that are heavy and expensive to launch from earth may someday be mined from asteroids and used for space manufacturing and construction.

Colonization of the asteroids

Low gravity simplifies construction technologies (such as cranes) and reduces structural strength requirements
Large number of possible sites, with over 300,000 asteroids identified to date
Asteroids' chemical composition varies (see asteroid spectral types), providing a variety of materials usable in building and fueling spacecraft and space habitats. The Trojan asteroids, in Jupiter's orbit, may be primarily extinct comets.
Some Earth-crossing asteroids require less energy (delta-V) to reach from Earth than the Moon.
Material mined from asteroids could be a basis for a trade economy.
Low gravity significantly eases transportation of cargo to and from asteroids.
High surface/volume ratio enables effective exploration and exploitation of mineral resources and provides maximal portion of useful building ground on the surface and underground.
High vacuum and low gravity would facilitate the evolution of some hi-tech industries such as material engineering and physical electronics (crystal growth, epitaxy).
Many asteroids (especially the extinct comet cores) contain large amounts (more than 5% of total composition) of volatiles and carbon, which are necessary for life support.
Isaac Asimov pointed out the advantage of building cities inside hollowed out asteroids, since the volume of all the asteroids put together is a great deal more than that of a mile-high building covering the Earth would be, and thus could accommodate a large population.

-----------------------------------------------------

Gotta love the right wing. They love to say "can't".

All that is fine, and no one doubts there are plenty of minable resources on asteroids, but a platform like the moon, where all the same resources can be found, is way more practical and far better training and preparation for going to Mars.

So much of that in your post is blarney, Dean, and has to be taken with a grain of salt. We hopefully will do it all, but it's much farther into the future than the Moon then Mars. Even the resources we find in asteroids have more application on the Moon and Mars than without those two manned bases of operations.

It's the equivalent of "getting the cart before the horse."

For all your constant haranguing of the "right wing" (etal) they have a quality that you miss: they are first of all practical.

Furthermore there's no reason to go the asteroids to deflect them; we can recon those (WISE) in towards the sun which are invisible coming at us by satellites, and we can calculate mathematically the results of any actions we might take in their regard without going there and trying it first hand. The claim that that was a primary purpose by NASA to visit an asteroid (holy cow! in 2025 yet!) was an agency in search of a purpose, and a reason to find something positive in what they have to buy into . . . . or lose their jobs. It’s so sad what's happened to NASA.

Two facts that rderp refuses to take into consideration (probably because he hasn't been programmed with them):

The moon is better than the asteroids for mining because:

1. It has all the resources of the asteroids, and they're easier to get to and exploit.

2. You can't fall off the moon. It's easier to do a lot of things in a gravity well than in free-fall.

The moon is better for mining? While the moon and the earth are made from the same material, the moons unique history make it particularly unsuitable for mining. Try to find out why if you don't believe me.

Imagine volcanoes on the earth bringing minerals too the surface regardless of how much they weigh. Imagine the moon, in it's early years was a molten mass. When liquid, what sinks to the center? Metals of course. Then the moon cooled. The craters are from impacts NOT volcanoes. To mine the moon would be to dig to it's center. Hardly probable.

I know you guys like to call me stupid, but at least I explain things with somewhat of an understanding. Most on the right don't seem capable. And this is where our scientists come from?

 

[American Horse]

A while back on Fox News, a commentator said that a space elevator was not practical for Earth. When asked why NASA awarded the $900,000 (the subject of the link in my last post) the award and why would we promote the wasted effort, he said while it would not work on Earth, it would work on other bodies in space, like our own moon for instance, to transport cargo into space from some future moon base.

I would take issue with that since there is virtually no rotation of the moon (it effectively rotates one time in 27.5 days), there is also no angular momentum to allow a satellite to maintain the synchronous orbit which would be necessary for a space elevator. And also the gravity well of the moon does not require such a large expenditure of fuel/energy to leave the surface to pay for the investment of a space elevator, whether possible or not.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The moon is better for mining? While the moon and the earth are made from the same material, the moons unique history make it particularly unsuitable for mining. Try to find out why if you don't believe me.

Imagine volcanoes on the earth bringing minerals too the surface regardless of how much they weigh. Imagine the moon, in it's early years was a molten mass. When liquid, what sinks to the center? Metals of course. Then the moon cooled. The craters are from impacts NOT volcanoes. To mine the moon would be to dig to it's center. Hardly probable.

I know you guys like to call me stupid, but at least I explain things with somewhat of an understanding. Most on the right don't seem capable. And this is where our scientists come from?

ExplainingTheFuture.com : Helium-3 Power
and a rebuttle.....
Depleted Cranium » Blog Archive » Once Again: Helium-3 From The Moon Is Not Going to Solve Our Energy Problems

 

[American Horse]

All that is fine, and no one doubts there are plenty of minable resources on asteroids, but a platform like the moon, where all the same resources can be found, is way more practical and far better training and preparation for going to Mars.

So much of that in your post is blarney, Dean, and has to be taken with a grain of salt. We hopefully will do it all, but it's much farther into the future than the Moon then Mars. Even the resources we find in asteroids have more application on the Moon and Mars than without those two manned bases of operations.

It's the equivalent of "getting the cart before the horse."

For all your constant haranguing of the "right wing" (etal) they have a quality that you miss: they are first of all practical.

Furthermore there's no reason to go the asteroids to deflect them; we can recon those (WISE) in towards the sun which are invisible coming at us by satellites, and we can calculate mathematically the results of any actions we might take in their regard without going there and trying it first hand. The claim that that was a primary purpose by NASA to visit an asteroid (holy cow! in 2025 yet!) was an agency in search of a purpose, and a reason to find something positive in what they have to buy into . . . . or lose their jobs. It’s so sad what's happened to NASA.

Two facts that rderp refuses to take into consideration (probably because he hasn't been programmed with them):

The moon is better than the asteroids for mining because:

1. It has all the resources of the asteroids, and they're easier to get to and exploit.

2. You can't fall off the moon. It's easier to do a lot of things in a gravity well than in free-fall.

The moon is better for mining? While the moon and the earth are made from the same material, the moons unique history make it particularly unsuitable for mining. Try to find out why if you don't believe me.

Imagine volcanoes on the earth bringing minerals too the surface regardless of how much they weigh. Imagine the moon, in it's early years was a molten mass. When liquid, what sinks to the center? Metals of course. Then the moon cooled. The craters are from impacts NOT volcanoes. To mine the moon would be to dig to it's center. Hardly probable.

I know you guys like to call me stupid, but at least I explain things with somewhat of an understanding. Most on the right don't seem capable. And this is where our scientists come from?

The moon is not laden with heavy metals, but has abundant aluminum at the surface. Your quote and assumptions are off base, as it were. In an earlier post I mentioned the upthrust recently discovered called the “Compton-Belkovich Thorium Anomaly;" (CBTA) where the heavy element Thorium is at the surface sufficiently to visibly discolor it. That heavy material was thrust upward by internal circulation, and then perhaps a large impact. The moon suffered many large impacts that caused this same process. A good feature about the relative stability of the lunar surface, erosion, weathering, and plate tectonics ...., is that what emerges onto the surface stays there.

Thorium like uranium, is excellent for producing nuclear energy, and in the process does not create Plutonium.

There indeed have been volcanoes, and since the mantle is more iron rich than Earth's, that as well as other heavy metals would end up in lava flows flooding impact basins.
Here are the relative abundances of useful elements on the surface by percentages;
First in the Maria second in the Highlands:
Silica – 45/45 (pct/pct)
Alumina – 15/24
Lime – 12/16
Iron oxide – 14/6
Magnesia – 9/8
Titanium dioxide – 4/1
Sodium oxide – 1/1
These do not take into account anomalies like the CBTA


(Surface abundances from link at Moon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I don't take any pleasure in calling you stupid, but I do see you as a pretender, and your hubris, if it was not so amusing would be extremely offensive.