dilloduck
Diamond Member
HopeandGlory said:In your opinion. Glad to say others don't agree with you.
What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.
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HopeandGlory said:In your opinion. Glad to say others don't agree with you.
HopeandGlory said:I agree with you - anyone using the Holocaust as a lever is disrespectful and ethically unsound. However, I DO assign values to crime - I can't help it. IMO - some crimes are unspeakably worse than others, the Shoah, the Armenian massacre by the Turks, a lot of what goes on in Africa today, the slavery issue, as you quite rightly say . . .
I'm always astounded but sadly, never surprised, by man's inhumanity to man!
dilloduck said:What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.
dilloduck said:What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.
HopeandGlory said:And I don't always agree with everything they do either. What I do support absolutely, is that Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.
What I don't accept is the election of Hamas. A terrorist organisation paid for and supported by Jihadis with the often stated intention of the annihilation of the Jewish State and people.
As for questioning actions - this is a non-arguement. There are always people everywhere who will question anything. Of course, Israel has detractors. As do both our countries!
HopeandGlory said:What I do support absolutely, is that Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.
dilloduck said:If Israel wants to run it's own affairs I guess it may have to let the Palestinians vote for who they wish.
GunnyL said:They did. And look what got put into office.
William Joyce said:Uh huh.
What I never hear anyone say is, "What I do support absolutely, is that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.
Or, "What I do support absolutely, is that BRITAIN has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders."
And just what borders are you talking about, H&G? Israel, ahem, "expanded" its own borders in 1967. You know, kinda like the Nazis expanded their borders into Poland...
dilloduck said:You expected someone else ?
GunnyL said:I didn't expect the majority of Palestinians to elect an entire terrorist organization to decide their fate and represent the Palestinian people to the rest of the world.
What they said with their vote in effect is they agree with Hamas, and they support terrorism as a people and nation. There's really no tapdancing around the subject for them anymore, nor claiming they only want peace.
dilloduck said:They know what side thier bread is buttered on--literally.
GunnyL said:Works for me. Palestine, IMO, is a terrorist state and should be treated as such.
dilloduck said:Good luck getting the Arabs on board. This crap will just never end--irreconcilable differences.
GunnyL said:Oh, I agree. However, now that they are a recognized legitimate government, it's a whole new ball game with a new set of rules. They have been weeded out of every other Nation's societies and given their own land; which, they have to defend. In acccepting, the made really nice targets of themselves, without fear of blowing up Jordanians, Lebanese, and/or Israelis.
Any act of aggression against Israel is now an act of war by one nation on another and Israel can justifiably wax their butts good.
dilloduck said:That's what I'm guessing was the whole motivation behind it. Man,there are a lot of welfare states in the mideast---they need to get jobs :teeth:
William Joyce said:Most know Israel gets the most foreign aid. Guess who's second? EGYPT. For God's sake, we need to stand down from that mess. If anyone's going to get my tax dollars, I want it to be farmers, soldiers and my grandma.
William Joyce said:Uh huh.
What I never hear anyone say is, "What I do support absolutely, is that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.
Or, "What I do support absolutely, is that BRITAIN has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders."
And just what borders are you talking about, H&G? Israel, ahem, "expanded" its own borders in 1967. You know, kinda like the Nazis expanded their borders into Poland...
HopeandGlory said:Okay - the first 2 points go without saying. As far as I'm concerned, Britain and the US are and should be inviolate. I feel I shouldn't even have to justify that POV.
As for Israel's borders - in 1967 as you well know, Nasser sent troops into Sinai in tandem with Syria attacking Israel's northern borders. Nasser then lied to King Hussein of Jordan about the success of Egypt's campaign which led to Hussein opening artillery fire on Jerusalem and trying to advance through the West Bank.
At the time, all these countries had sworn to take the whole of Israel and 'push the Jews back into the sea.' Their words, not mine.
What was Israel supposed to do? The fact they subsequently captured all of Sinai from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and all of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan rather suggests they seriously bloodied some Arab noses. Most of the captured territories have since been ceded back - but at the time, they acted as a viable and vital safety buffer/zone between Israel and her somewhat embaressed enemies. Israel acted in self-defence and gave her hostile neighbours a whopping.
A bit different from the imperialist, terroritory-grabbing State you describe and nothing whatsoever like the Nazi invasion of Poland which was done for entirely different reasons.