DA Candidate: 'Holocaust' Exaggerated

[dilloduck]

In your opinion. Glad to say others don't agree with you.

What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.

 

[Gunny]

I agree with you - anyone using the Holocaust as a lever is disrespectful and ethically unsound. However, I DO assign values to crime - I can't help it. IMO - some crimes are unspeakably worse than others, the Shoah, the Armenian massacre by the Turks, a lot of what goes on in Africa today, the slavery issue, as you quite rightly say . . .

I'm always astounded but sadly, never surprised, by man's inhumanity to man!

My point in regard to assigning value to crime is that the greater crime in no way decriminalizes the lesser crime. Each should be judged separately for what it is.

 

[Gunny]

What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.

Questioning Israel's actions and accusing a nation that has been in survival mode since day one of genocide for defending itself are two distinctly separate actions.

 

[HopeandGlory]

What ?---There are people all over the place that question Israels' actions.

And I don't always agree with everything they do either. What I do support absolutely, is that Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

What I don't accept is the election of Hamas. A terrorist organisation paid for and supported by Jihadis with the often stated intention of the annihilation of the Jewish State and people.

As for questioning actions - this is a non-arguement. There are always people everywhere who will question anything. Of course, Israel has detractors. As do both our countries!

 

[dilloduck]

And I don't always agree with everything they do either. What I do support absolutely, is that Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

What I don't accept is the election of Hamas. A terrorist organisation paid for and supported by Jihadis with the often stated intention of the annihilation of the Jewish State and people.

As for questioning actions - this is a non-arguement. There are always people everywhere who will question anything. Of course, Israel has detractors. As do both our countries!

If Israel wants to run it's own affairs I guess it may have to let the Palestinians vote for who they wish.

 

[William Joyce]

What I do support absolutely, is that Israel has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

Uh huh.

What I never hear anyone say is, "What I do support absolutely, is that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

Or, "What I do support absolutely, is that BRITAIN has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders."

And just what borders are you talking about, H&G? Israel, ahem, "expanded" its own borders in 1967. You know, kinda like the Nazis expanded their borders into Poland...

 

[Gunny]

If Israel wants to run it's own affairs I guess it may have to let the Palestinians vote for who they wish.

They did. And look what got put into office.

 

[dilloduck]

They did. And look what got put into office.

You expected someone else ?

 

[Gunny]

Uh huh.

What I never hear anyone say is, "What I do support absolutely, is that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

Or, "What I do support absolutely, is that BRITAIN has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders."

And just what borders are you talking about, H&G? Israel, ahem, "expanded" its own borders in 1967. You know, kinda like the Nazis expanded their borders into Poland...

Now you're twisting. Nazi Germany invaded peaceful nations without warning nor provokation.

Israel's gains in territory were the results of Arab nations attacking them.

No comparison at all.

 

[Gunny]

You expected someone else ?

I didn't expect the majority of Palestinians to elect an entire terrorist organization to decide their fate and represent the Palestinian people to the rest of the world.

What they said with their vote in effect is they agree with Hamas, and they support terrorism as a people and nation. There's really no tapdancing around the subject for them anymore, nor claiming they only want peace.

 

[dilloduck]

I didn't expect the majority of Palestinians to elect an entire terrorist organization to decide their fate and represent the Palestinian people to the rest of the world.

What they said with their vote in effect is they agree with Hamas, and they support terrorism as a people and nation. There's really no tapdancing around the subject for them anymore, nor claiming they only want peace.

They know what side thier bread is buttered on--literally.

 

[Gunny]

They know what side thier bread is buttered on--literally.

Works for me. Palestine, IMO, is a terrorist state and should be treated as such.

 

[dilloduck]

Works for me. Palestine, IMO, is a terrorist state and should be treated as such.

Good luck getting the Arabs on board. This crap will just never end--irreconcilable differences.

 

[Gunny]

Good luck getting the Arabs on board. This crap will just never end--irreconcilable differences.

Oh, I agree. However, now that they are a recognized legitimate government, it's a whole new ball game with a new set of rules. They have been weeded out of every other Nation's societies and given their own land; which, they have to defend. In acccepting, the made really nice targets of themselves, without fear of blowing up Jordanians, Lebanese, and/or Israelis.

Any act of aggression against Israel is now an act of war by one nation on another and Israel can justifiably wax their butts good.

 

[dilloduck]

Oh, I agree. However, now that they are a recognized legitimate government, it's a whole new ball game with a new set of rules. They have been weeded out of every other Nation's societies and given their own land; which, they have to defend. In acccepting, the made really nice targets of themselves, without fear of blowing up Jordanians, Lebanese, and/or Israelis.

Any act of aggression against Israel is now an act of war by one nation on another and Israel can justifiably wax their butts good.

That's what I'm guessing was the whole motivation behind it. Man,there are a lot of welfare states in the mideast---they need to get jobs :teeth:

 

[William Joyce]

That's what I'm guessing was the whole motivation behind it. Man,there are a lot of welfare states in the mideast---they need to get jobs :teeth:

Most know Israel gets the most foreign aid. Guess who's second? EGYPT. For God's sake, we need to stand down from that mess. If anyone's going to get my tax dollars, I want it to be farmers, soldiers and my grandma.

 

[dilloduck]

Most know Israel gets the most foreign aid. Guess who's second? EGYPT. For God's sake, we need to stand down from that mess. If anyone's going to get my tax dollars, I want it to be farmers, soldiers and my grandma.

And then for good measure the Palestinians get some too---we're nuts to fund this crap.

 

[Diuretic]

In a way the Palestinians had the same choice you do. Americans complain about the Democrats and the GOP being too similar and then vote for whoever looks like doing the least harm. The Palestinians had it even worse. Fatah - a deeply corrupt terrorist organisation or Hamas - a deeply nutty terrorist organisation. At least, from the Palestinian point of view, Hamas spread some loot around, Fatah kept it for themselves. Anyway now Hamas is actually in government they're about to find it much harder to be nutty.

 

[HopeandGlory]

Uh huh.

What I never hear anyone say is, "What I do support absolutely, is that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders.

Or, "What I do support absolutely, is that BRITAIN has a right to exist. It has a right to expect secure borders."

And just what borders are you talking about, H&G? Israel, ahem, "expanded" its own borders in 1967. You know, kinda like the Nazis expanded their borders into Poland...

Okay - the first 2 points go without saying. As far as I'm concerned, Britain and the US are and should be inviolate. I feel I shouldn't even have to justify that POV.

As for Israel's borders - in 1967 as you well know, Nasser sent troops into Sinai in tandem with Syria attacking Israel's northern borders. Nasser then lied to King Hussein of Jordan about the success of Egypt's campaign which led to Hussein opening artillery fire on Jerusalem and trying to advance through the West Bank.

At the time, all these countries had sworn to take the whole of Israel and 'push the Jews back into the sea.' Their words, not mine.

What was Israel supposed to do? The fact they subsequently captured all of Sinai from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and all of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan rather suggests they seriously bloodied some Arab noses. Most of the captured territories have since been ceded back - but at the time, they acted as a viable and vital safety buffer/zone between Israel and her somewhat embaressed enemies. Israel acted in self-defence and gave her hostile neighbours a whopping.

A bit different from the imperialist, terroritory-grabbing State you describe and nothing whatsoever like the Nazi invasion of Poland which was done for entirely different reasons.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Okay - the first 2 points go without saying. As far as I'm concerned, Britain and the US are and should be inviolate. I feel I shouldn't even have to justify that POV.

As for Israel's borders - in 1967 as you well know, Nasser sent troops into Sinai in tandem with Syria attacking Israel's northern borders. Nasser then lied to King Hussein of Jordan about the success of Egypt's campaign which led to Hussein opening artillery fire on Jerusalem and trying to advance through the West Bank.

At the time, all these countries had sworn to take the whole of Israel and 'push the Jews back into the sea.' Their words, not mine.

What was Israel supposed to do? The fact they subsequently captured all of Sinai from Egypt, the Golan Heights from Syria and all of Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan rather suggests they seriously bloodied some Arab noses. Most of the captured territories have since been ceded back - but at the time, they acted as a viable and vital safety buffer/zone between Israel and her somewhat embaressed enemies. Israel acted in self-defence and gave her hostile neighbours a whopping.

A bit different from the imperialist, terroritory-grabbing State you describe and nothing whatsoever like the Nazi invasion of Poland which was done for entirely different reasons.

Though I support israel as a agent of american power in the region, you have to admit they basically just took it based on rights from god.