Criminalizing Homelessness Can Now Cost Cities Federal Money

[paulitician]

total population or proportion of population, we're pretty high up there. China for example has a fraction of our prisoners. And several times our population. We have more people incarcerated per 100,000 than anyone else in the entire world.....with the exception of Seychelles. An island 'nation' with only 90,000 citizens.

Ever heard of Seychelles? Me neither.

a stat with nothing to back it up at all.

do you have some evidence innocent people are being locked up? if you did you didnt offer it.

i can already predict the next move; a whine that minorities are locked up for certain crimes at higher rates than non-minorities.
that doesnt hold up to scrutiny either; because people caught dealing drugs will say they were in possession of that drugs for their own personal use and that was the only packages they came in, so they can get treatment rather than incarceration. but you can only do that so much if you keep getting arrested with drugs on you you will wind up in prison for dealing

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

 

[paulitician]

a stat with nothing to back it up at all.

do you have some evidence innocent people are being locked up? if you did you didnt offer it.

i can already predict the next move; a whine that minorities are locked up for certain crimes at higher rates than non-minorities.
that doesnt hold up to scrutiny either; because people caught dealing drugs will say they were in possession of that drugs for their own personal use and that was the only packages they came in, so they can get treatment rather than incarceration. but you can only do that so much if you keep getting arrested with drugs on you you will wind up in prison for dealing

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It would make the homeless problem more severe. But it would free up *so* much money and resources for treatment and shelters. Which does both these people and the society in general far more good that putting them in a box.

Yes, treatment is the more logical and humane way to go. They don't belong in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. They have a problem, but that doesn't make them criminals.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

a stat with nothing to back it up at all.

do you have some evidence innocent people are being locked up? if you did you didnt offer it.

i can already predict the next move; a whine that minorities are locked up for certain crimes at higher rates than non-minorities.
that doesnt hold up to scrutiny either; because people caught dealing drugs will say they were in possession of that drugs for their own personal use and that was the only packages they came in, so they can get treatment rather than incarceration. but you can only do that so much if you keep getting arrested with drugs on you you will wind up in prison for dealing

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

 

[paulitician]

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

Doing drugs is not a criminal act, anymore than consuming alcohol is. It may be very unwise, but it isn't criminal. It isn't necessary to lock them away in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. I'd rather see us go the treatment route. It's far more logical and humane.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

Doing drugs is not a criminal act, anymore than consuming alcohol is. It may be very unwise, but it isn't criminal. It isn't necessary to lock them away in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. I'd rather see us go the treatment route. It's far more logical and humane.

You can't force an addict into treatment, they have to want it.

 

[Skylar]

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

So do I. Its quite brutal. But you see the effects AFTER our war in drugs. And we're still paying those prices. The war on drugs didn't stop it.

There's also a tremendous cost to the enforcement efforts themselves. Fractured families, losses of personal liberty, erosion of rights, *enormous* investments in prisons, higher taxes, losses of productivity, lost GDP, and the intensification of the very drug problems that lead people to prison.

By switching from enforcement to treatment you lessen both the harm to society caused by drug use AND lessen the harm to society caused by enforcement. All while actually helping the drug user themselves lead productive, useful lives.

 

[Skylar]

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

Doing drugs is not a criminal act, anymore than consuming alcohol is. It may be very unwise, but it isn't criminal. It isn't necessary to lock them away in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. I'd rather see us go the treatment route. It's far more logical and humane.

You can't force an addict into treatment, they have to want it.

Most drug users want treatment, especially if we're talking about the long term. The treatment options we have for them are insuffecient for the needs. With more options, more funding, more shelters....we could help reduce homelessness and help those who are ready to kick their drug habit be more successful.

Throwing them in prison doesn't help. Drugs and alcohol are MORE available in prison than on the outside. As even if the drug user wanted to dissociate himself from a drug infested environment, he can't.

No one is saying that drug use doesn't come with costs. You're absolutely right in recognizing that they do. What's being argued is that our criminalization efforts to mitigated that harm is wildly ineffective and hideiously expensive. Often making the problem worse. And that enforcement itself also comes at a high, high cost. Cost in freedom, lives, deeper addiction, broken families, absurds amount of money, liberty for society in general, wasted productivity, etc.

If criminalization doesn't really work to stop the drug problem.......why keep paying the high cost of criminalization? Why not focus on treatment....where you're more likely to help the individual drug user?

 

[Skylar]

There's also a defunding of criminal organizations with decriminalization. This would dramatically reduce the violence here as well as in Latin American countries where these criminal networks are often armies in their own right.

Prohibition empowers criminal networks. And leads to violence between them when they fight for territory. It also leads to violence between police and these criminal organizations.

Decriminalization also means we can tax the shit out of it. Increasing revenue. Alcohol alone resulted in nearly 7 billion in tax revenue. These revenues too can be used for treatment, shelters, and the mitigation of the social costs of drug use.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

If we thought about it as a public health issue instead of lock them all away we'd be moving in the right direction

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

Doing drugs is not a criminal act, anymore than consuming alcohol is. It may be very unwise, but it isn't criminal. It isn't necessary to lock them away in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. I'd rather see us go the treatment route. It's far more logical and humane.

The problem is treatment seldom works for those addicted to opiate products.

I know several people who committed suicide and several die from using the drugs itself. The last one being my cousins son who died at the age of 27. They buried him this past June. I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

We have to face facts that there are many people who just can't be helped.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Decriminalize most drugs. And then release all non-violent drug offenders from our prisons. That would be a wise first step in undoing this Police State.

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It would make the homeless problem more severe. But it would free up *so* much money and resources for treatment and shelters. Which does both these people and the society in general far more good that putting them in a box.

Yes, treatment is the more logical and humane way to go. They don't belong in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. They have a problem, but that doesn't make them criminals.

Sorry, but when you break our laws, yes, you are a criminal.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

Thats because instead of fixing the problem which is drugs...Their "solution" to drugs isnt a solution to drug addiction.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

Thats because instead of fixing the problem which is drugs...Their "solution" to drugs isnt a solution to drug addiction.

Well, from what I've seen in my life, there seems to be no real solution. At least when we keep them locked up, they are away from our home and kids.

 

[David_42]

I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

Thats because instead of fixing the problem which is drugs...Their "solution" to drugs isnt a solution to drug addiction.

Well, from what I've seen in my life, there seems to be no real solution. At least when we keep them locked up, they are away from our home and kids.

 

[hazlnut]

Being homeless isn't a crime...

Boosting the poverty rate like Obozo did and putting more people there like he did, is criminal.

Can we arrest him now???

While you're pulling crap out of your ass, why don't you wedge that fat cock free?

 

[ClosedCaption]

I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

Thats because instead of fixing the problem which is drugs...Their "solution" to drugs isnt a solution to drug addiction.

Well, from what I've seen in my life, there seems to be no real solution. At least when we keep them locked up, they are away from our home and kids.

Like they are going to stay there forever on our tax dollars..smh.

I've never heard someone disagree with fixing a problem before

 

[Obiwan]

Being homeless isn't a crime...

Boosting the poverty rate like Obozo did and putting more people there like he did, is criminal.

Can we arrest him now???

While you're pulling crap out of your ass, why don't you wedge that fat cock free?

Obama's Homeless
As for today, under Obama, the most recent study is a report by the National Alliance to End Homelessness, titled "State of Homelessness in America 2012." That report provided data through the end of 2011, heading into Obama's fourth year. It listed 636,017 homeless in 2011, which is double the number under Reagan.

The report actually contends that the number is down slightly from 2009, when the figure was 643,067. The report suggests that this tiny decrease might be attributable to the decrease in homeless military veterans: "The largest decrease was among homeless veterans, whose population declined 11 percent. The number of homeless veterans went from 75,609 in 2009 to 67,495 in 2011, a reduction of about 8,000."

But that hardly suggests improvement. The reports laments that "While the homeless population decreased nationally, it increased in 24 states and the District of Columbia."

In fact, I would expect that the total homeless for 2012, which we don't know yet, is surely much worse than 2011, given the sharp rise in food stamps and the continuing chronic unemployment.

Either way, 636,000 homeless is stunning. They even include the likes of Erin Moran, who played "Joanie" on the 1970s hit TV show, Happy Days. And anyone who has been to any major city knows what I'm talking about. I'm seeing more homeless than I've ever seen before. A friend of mine told me about two Australian friends who recently visited San Francisco: "They were simply appalled at the number of homeless everywhere in the city. They commented that on almost every street there were homeless hanging out." I saw the same recently when visiting very rich and very liberal Santa Barbara.

The homeless are everywhere, especially in cities run by liberals.


And to top it off, instead of housing the homeless, Obozo wants to bring in several thousand Syrians (with terrorists mixed in), keep a few million illegals, and take care of them...

 

[koshergrl]

If Homeless People behave themselves, there is no reason to lock them up in cages. But see in a Police State, locking Citizens away in cages is the solution to every problem. The U.S. now locks up more of its Citizens than any other nation on earth, per capita. YAY! We're #1! How bout that Freedom & Liberty?

In a police state, often the criminals are the only ones on the streets. Because crime is not punished and in fact is rewarded.

So you tell me which is most likely to be a police state...a state where crazy people and criminals who hurt, steal and kill are locked away and sexual deviants are shunned, or a state where people who hurt, steal and kill are paid and protected..while working church members have their money taken and get thrown in jail?

Hmmm....a state where murder and thievery is rampant...or a state where it's rare...which is likely to be a police state?

 

[paulitician]

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It happens. Some people abuse alcohol too. But consuming alcohol is not considered a criminal act. Would you throw someone who consumes alcohol into a cage with brutal murderers and rapists? Our Justice System just needs to evolve.

You're going down different avenues. I see what drugs do to people and society. Good parents don't want their children around them or the people doing them. If locking them up teaches them a lesson and motivates them to get clean then so be it

Doing drugs is not a criminal act, anymore than consuming alcohol is. It may be very unwise, but it isn't criminal. It isn't necessary to lock them away in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. I'd rather see us go the treatment route. It's far more logical and humane.

The problem is treatment seldom works for those addicted to opiate products.

I know several people who committed suicide and several die from using the drugs itself. The last one being my cousins son who died at the age of 27. They buried him this past June. I know another guy who spent the last five years in prison on an unrelated charge to drugs. After he got out, he started all over again.

We have to face facts that there are many people who just can't be helped.

While tragic, he's still wasn't a criminal. He had a problem, but that didn't make him a criminal.He never belonged in a cage with brutal murderers and rapists. He needed real treatment.

 

[paulitician]

Drugs and alcohol (along with mental illness) are leading causes of homelessness, your suggestion would only amplify the problem

Maybe, maybe not.

It can't help but cause more of a problem. Our Church works with the homeless, I would be willing to bet 17 out of 20 people that come to us are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

It would make the homeless problem more severe. But it would free up *so* much money and resources for treatment and shelters. Which does both these people and the society in general far more good that putting them in a box.

Yes, treatment is the more logical and humane way to go. They don't belong in cages with brutal murderers and rapists. They have a problem, but that doesn't make them criminals.

Sorry, but when you break our laws, yes, you are a criminal.

And that's the real problem. Doing drugs shouldn't be considered a criminal act any more than consuming alcohol is. The act itself is not criminal. It may be unwise, but it's not criminal. Our Justice System needs to evolve. Non-violent drug users should not be thrown in cages in brutal prisons. That's barbaric.