Zone1 Creepy things the (in)famous Luther said

[notmyfault2020]

Well, Luther said that you could commit adultery 20 times a day and not lose your salvation!

Whatever happened to "Go and sin no more" Oh yeh.. that was just Jesus .. sigh .. not the mighty Luther

sorry about the sarcasm.. felt I couldn't help it..

Anyway, then he said that the Catholic Mass was worse than whore houses (and a list of other things involving mortal sin..)! but Vatican II finally listened to the mighty Luther just the same and so as Archbishop Lefebvre once put it Vatican 2 (presided over by Pope Paul VI) destroyed the Church. And don't bother arguing with me on all that bc I, unlike so many here, have done the homework (or the math, if u will).

So anyway.. why would true Catholics listen to a formally-excommunicated heretic like Luther on anything.. much less when considering changes to the Mass, as was done at Vat II? Luther called the Mass an "abomination." But Vatican II didn't care.. So what true Catholic is going to listen to either Luther or Vatican II?

Answer: They wouldn't!

But fake Catholics would.. hence the chaos and confusion in the Church

 

[JGalt]

Martin Luther once threw an inkwell at the Devil and told him to go screw himself.

Which is pretty amazing, seeing how the Devil can't be in more than one place at a time, and usually sends his underlings instead of showing up in person.

Martin Luther and Stinkering at Satan

 

[Moonglow]

Whether you've been told or not to do it you dood it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Well, Luther said that you could commit adultery 20 times a day and not lose your salvation!

Whatever happened to "Go and sin no more" Oh yeh.. that was just Jesus .. sigh .. not the mighty Luther

sorry about the sarcasm.. felt I couldn't help it..

Anyway, then he said that the Catholic Mass was worse than whore houses (and a list of other things involving mortal sin..)! but Vatican II finally listened to the mighty Luther just the same and so as Archbishop Lefebvre once put it Vatican 2 (presided over by Pope Paul VI) destroyed the Church. And don't bother arguing with me on all that bc I, unlike so many here, have done the homework (or the math, if u will).

So anyway.. why would true Catholics listen to a formally-excommunicated heretic like Luther on anything.. much less when considering changes to the Mass, as was done at Vat II? Luther called the Mass an "abomination." But Vatican II didn't care.. So what true Catholic is going to listen to either Luther or Vatican II?

Answer: They wouldn't!

But fake Catholics would.. hence the chaos and confusion in the Church

Please provide sources for these quotes

 

[notmyfault2020]

Martin Luther once threw an inkwell at the Devil and told him to go screw himself.

Which is pretty amazing, seeing how the Devil can't be in more than one place at a time, and usually sends his underlings instead of showing up in person.

Martin Luther and Stinkering at Satan

usually

it appears he may have made an exception for the mighty Luther

(excommunicated heretic)

 

[notmyfault2020]

Please provide sources for these quotes

The 38 Most Ridiculous Things Martin Luther Ever Wrote | Saint Dominic's Media

Let us examine the 38 Most Ridiculous things that Martin Luther, the illustrious Father of Protestantism and the Bible-Only (sola-scriptura) movement, said.

www.saintdominicsmedia.com

 

[notmyfault2020]

Martin Luther once threw an inkwell at the Devil and told him to go screw himself.

Which is pretty amazing, seeing how the Devil can't be in more than one place at a time, and usually sends his underlings instead of showing up in person.

Martin Luther and Stinkering at Satan

I did a Search for

Crazy things Luther said

and found the following

The 38 Most Ridiculous Things Martin Luther Ever Wrote | Saint Dominic's Media

Let us examine the 38 Most Ridiculous things that Martin Luther, the illustrious Father of Protestantism and the Bible-Only (sola-scriptura) movement, said.

www.saintdominicsmedia.com

 

[notmyfault2020]

Correction on something I said

It is not true that the whole Vatican II Council was corrupt as I implied.

There were 450 bishops who defied it.. I am not sure all 450 kept on defying Vatican II as the decades went on... It seems Archbishop Lafebvre was somewhat alone in his fight against the V2 abuses

but in any case, I didn't mean to paint the Council with such a wide brush. And priests these days.. some.. seem to be moving away from the novus ordo stuff.. back to Tradition. Too bad they don't do it more often or more in-your-face like

 

[hadit]

Well, Luther said that you could commit adultery 20 times a day and not lose your salvation!

Whatever happened to "Go and sin no more" Oh yeh.. that was just Jesus .. sigh .. not the mighty Luther

sorry about the sarcasm.. felt I couldn't help it..

Anyway, then he said that the Catholic Mass was worse than whore houses (and a list of other things involving mortal sin..)! but Vatican II finally listened to the mighty Luther just the same and so as Archbishop Lefebvre once put it Vatican 2 (presided over by Pope Paul VI) destroyed the Church. And don't bother arguing with me on all that bc I, unlike so many here, have done the homework (or the math, if u will).

So anyway.. why would true Catholics listen to a formally-excommunicated heretic like Luther on anything.. much less when considering changes to the Mass, as was done at Vat II? Luther called the Mass an "abomination." But Vatican II didn't care.. So what true Catholic is going to listen to either Luther or Vatican II?

Answer: They wouldn't!

But fake Catholics would.. hence the chaos and confusion in the Church

You really have a hard-on for Martin Luther. You do realize, don't you, that he was right about the Church of his day? Let's look at a few of his beliefs:

Do you dispute his opposition to indulgences, or do you believe that you can shorten a loved one's time in Purgatory if you give the church money?
Do you dispute the idea that the pope cannot release people from their sin, but only announce that God has forgiven them?
Do you dispute that we are saved by Grace through Faith, or do you insist the church has to get involved and the person has to earn their salvation?
Do you dispute the idea that man can approach God on his own through the blood of Christ, or does a priest have to be involved?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you dispute his opposition to indulgences, or do you believe that you can shorten a loved one's time in Purgatory if you give the church money?

Are you aware that Martin Luther was arguing against indulgences being given for a specific instance--and that the Church agreed with him that in that instance it was his bishop who was out of line?

Penance is for purification. While some Christian denominations seem to believe that their souls are already purified by Christ's death on the cross, Catholic belief is that we, too, have a responsibility for the condition of our souls.

 

[Meriweather]

Do you dispute the idea that the pope cannot release people from their sin, but only announce that God has forgiven them?

That is Catholic teaching, not anything Martin Luther came up with. Martin Luther had a hard life, he did. His father seemed to drill into him that the hard way was was not only the right way, it was the only way. This is the philosophy that Martin Luther took with him into the seminary and priesthood. Slowly, overtime, he had his "Ah ha!" moments, and probably from those who were also working against some powerful and not very good influences within the Catholic Church.

What is lost, is that there were some secular forces who spotted Martin Luther as someone who could be used for their purposes. Martin Luther had some regrets, and those are interesting in their own right.

 

[hadit]

Are you aware that Martin Luther was arguing against indulgences being given for a specific instance--and that the Church agreed with him that in that instance it was his bishop who was out of line?

Penance is for purification. While some Christian denominations seem to believe that their souls are already purified by Christ's death on the cross, Catholic belief is that we, too, have a responsibility for the condition of our souls.

When Jesus says, "If you do this, then you will be saved", by what authority do we add conditions to that?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you dispute that we are saved by Grace through Faith, or do you insist the church has to get involved and the person has to earn their salvation?

Saint Cyprian, third century. He noted that groups of people were coming up with all kinds of ideas about salvation. There was only one Christian Church at the time, and he said that people needed the church to teach them salvation as Christ taught it.

Think back to the third century. Where would you suggest people learn about Christ and their salvation?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you dispute the idea that man can approach God on his own through the blood of Christ, or does a priest have to be involved?

No one has ever disputed people can approach God on their own. Not even the people of Jesus time.

 

[hadit]

Saint Cyprian, third century. He noted that groups of people were coming up with all kinds of ideas about salvation. There was only one Christian Church at the time, and he said that people needed the church to teach them salvation as Christ taught it.

Think back to the third century. Where would you suggest people learn about Christ and their salvation?

The Church spreads the Gospel, and the Gospel is that we are saved by Grace through faith. Our works demonstrate that salvation as proof, but we do not earn salvation, that is a gift.

 

[Meriweather]

When Jesus says, "If you do this, then you will be saved", by what authority do we add conditions to that?

Some non-Catholic Christians dwell on "saved" a word seldom used in the Catholic faith. Salvation, yes; redemption, yes. But the idea that we are "saved" from punishment, correction, consequences is foreign. As I mentioned before, we hold some responsibility for the condition of our souls that goes beyond, "I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior so I am saved and will go directly to heaven."

Do non-Catholic Christians ever discuss the condition of the soul/spirit?

 

[Meriweather]

The Church spreads the Gospel, and the Gospel is that we are saved by Grace through faith. Our works demonstrate that salvation as proof, but we do not earn salvation, that is a gift.

Who says salvation has to be earned? It is a false accusation by non-Catholic Christians directed at Catholics. It makes no sense, so the Church pays no attention to it.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Correction on something I said a few posts ago RE:

the whole Vatican II Council was [not] corrupt as I implied.

There were 450 bishops who defied it.

This was something I mis-remembered reading in some article or book or another..

No, there may not have been 450 bishops against Vatican II.

What I should have said is that there were 450 bishops @ Vatican II who wanted to keep the ancient teaching against COMMUNISM in the Vatican II documents produced by said Council. They did NOT get what they wanted.

So it was not 450 bishops who were against the whole of Vatican II.. although I am sure most of them were irate due to the extirpation of the prohibition on Communism..

Liberals won out on the Communism issue and on other orthodox Christian teachings long held by the Church

hence my disgust with Vatican II

 

[notmyfault2020]

Are you aware that Martin Luther was arguing against indulgences being given for a specific instance--and that the Church agreed with him that in that instance it was his bishop who was out of line?

Penance is for purification. While some Christian denominations seem to believe that their souls are already purified by Christ's death on the cross, Catholic belief is that we, too, have a responsibility for the condition of our souls.

and not only that, that this is a PROCESS that goes on as long as you are alive on Planet E

Every day there are new way in which to.. fill in the blanks.. but the words: There are new ways to fight Satan

work

 

[hadit]

Some non-Catholic Christians dwell on "saved" a word seldom used in the Catholic faith. Salvation, yes; redemption, yes. But the idea that we are "saved" from punishment, correction, consequences is foreign. As I mentioned before, we hold some responsibility for the condition of our souls that goes beyond, "I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior so I am saved and will go directly to heaven."

We do have responsibility to live our lives in such a way that we bring glory and honor to Christ. Just like the thief on the cross, however, our salvation from eternal separation from God is contingent solely on faith. Once we have that saving faith, then, we are to show the fruit of the Spirit in our lives on an on-going basis, because that is the outward demonstration of the internal changes Christ brings.

Do non-Catholic Christians ever discuss the condition of the soul/spirit?

Uhhh, yes, we do that all the time. Are you not familiar with what Peter had to say about making every effort to confirm our calling and election? We are VERY conscious of the need to keep our relationship with God front and center in our lives. Our responsibility is not only to ourselves, but to all we come into contact with, that they hear the Gospel as well as ourselves, and when we forget our own salvation, we lose our witness to the world. We are to be a stream of fresh water, not a stagnant Dead Sea with no outlet.