CDZ Congress Says, Let the Mentally Ill Buy Guns

[Skull Pilot]

Law abiding people aren't committing the vast majority of shootings the criminals who obtain guns illegally are

And they may obtain them from people who you don't know are illegally selling them forward.

and again how am I as a law abiding citizen responsible for the behavior of criminals?

Can you forget yourself for a moment and think of a society?

no

I have no obligation to "society"

The individual is more important than the collective

Are you a tax evader?

are you a murderer?

I don't pay taxes to help society I pay them because if I don't armed men will come to my house and confiscate my property, seize my bank accounts shoot my dogs and throw me in prison

 

[Meane]

50 for me.

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

Your proposition does not lower crime rate. People can't be locked up for long just so as to keep them still unless they are mentally ill. In other cases they must be let out after the punishment is over and long prison terms do not lower the chances of that person committing a crime again. So putting a lot of people in prison for a long time does not reduce crime.

people can be locked up for as long as we decide to lock them up

here's what it should be

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm 25 years no parole
Any murder committed with a firearm life no parole

and it reduces crime for as long as they are in prison

You're right not be concerned about society. You've no clue how it functions.

I don't what it means when you say they can be locked up as long as you want. There are rules for it. You have decided that the prison terms are unduly long, true. But you are precisely the bad example about how it doesn't work in long term.

Keeping people in prison costs money and burdens the society as well as the economy The prisons are too full. It is unsustainable.

 

[Skull Pilot]

and again how am I as a law abiding citizen responsible for the behavior of criminals?

Can you forget yourself for a moment and think of a society?

We are, you are not. Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack...that is lives saved, lives not destroyed....how many lives did criminals take.....in 2015, 9,616.....and of those 70-80% are not normal citizens, but other criminals engaged in crime....and the rest, many are family and friends of the criminals...

So the number of innocent people who are killed is dwarfed by those who are saved.......

Cars are used to accidentally kill more people every single year than are purposefully taken with guns...

But it is not your right to kill a man because intends to hurt you. You only have the right to kill a man if he is about to kill you and you have no other way to stop it.

On the other hand, you said ..Criminals see stopped and...Criminals took lives. How often do they kill the criminal then?

Actually all you need is a reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm

If you were correct and you're not then a person is not allowed to kill to defend himself from a beating so severe it might leave him wheelchair bound or with severe mental disabilities

many times just the pulling of a firearm will defuse the situation
many times the criminal piece of shit is merely wounded and unable to continue his attack

in 2012 there were 259 justifiable homicides

so you see the piece of shit criminals you are so worried about are more likely not to be killed that they are to be killed by law abiding gun owners

Does this mean the rest from the 1,500,000 were only injured?

in 2012 there were only 259 justifiable homicides

so in the rest of the 1.5 million times a gun was used in self defense the piece of shit criminals were either not shot at because the mere sight of the gun being pulled stopped them, they were shot at and not hit which stopped them or they were shot at and wounded which stopped them

 

[Skull Pilot]

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

Your proposition does not lower crime rate. People can't be locked up for long just so as to keep them still unless they are mentally ill. In other cases they must be let out after the punishment is over and long prison terms do not lower the chances of that person committing a crime again. So putting a lot of people in prison for a long time does not reduce crime.

people can be locked up for as long as we decide to lock them up

here's what it should be

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm 25 years no parole
Any murder committed with a firearm life no parole

and it reduces crime for as long as they are in prison

You're right not be concerned about society. You've no clue how it functions.

I don't what it means when you say they can be locked up as long as you want. There are rules for it. You have decided that the prison terms are unduly long, true. But you are precisely the bad example about how it doesn't work in long term.

Keeping people in prison costs money and burdens the society as well as the economy The prisons are too full. It is unsustainable.

Laws are made by people

if we the people decide that a 25 year sentence for any crime committed while in possession of a gun is warranted then it will be

and all we have to do is come up with alternate sentencing for nonviolent criminals that will leave more than enough room for the violent pieces of shit to be locked up for a long time

 

[Meane]

Can you forget yourself for a moment and think of a society?

We are, you are not. Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack...that is lives saved, lives not destroyed....how many lives did criminals take.....in 2015, 9,616.....and of those 70-80% are not normal citizens, but other criminals engaged in crime....and the rest, many are family and friends of the criminals...

So the number of innocent people who are killed is dwarfed by those who are saved.......

Cars are used to accidentally kill more people every single year than are purposefully taken with guns...

But it is not your right to kill a man because intends to hurt you. You only have the right to kill a man if he is about to kill you and you have no other way to stop it.

On the other hand, you said ..Criminals see stopped and...Criminals took lives. How often do they kill the criminal then?

Actually all you need is a reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm

If you were correct and you're not then a person is not allowed to kill to defend himself from a beating so severe it might leave him wheelchair bound or with severe mental disabilities

many times just the pulling of a firearm will defuse the situation
many times the criminal piece of shit is merely wounded and unable to continue his attack

in 2012 there were 259 justifiable homicides

so you see the piece of shit criminals you are so worried about are more likely not to be killed that they are to be killed by law abiding gun owners

Does this mean the rest from the 1,500,000 were only injured?

in 2012 there were only 259 justifiable homicides

so in the rest of the 1.5 million times a gun was used in self defense the piece of shit criminals were either not shot at because the mere sight of the gun being pulled stopped them, they were shot at and not hit which stopped them or they were shot at and wounded which stopped them

There have to be at least three categories. Because that 259 were killed justifiably and the rest only wounded is simply not possible but it seems as though you were evading that. How many are killed unjustifiably because the victim has a gun. That's what i want to know.

 

[miketx]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

Congress said no such thing. Never have and never will.

 

[Meane]

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

Your proposition does not lower crime rate. People can't be locked up for long just so as to keep them still unless they are mentally ill. In other cases they must be let out after the punishment is over and long prison terms do not lower the chances of that person committing a crime again. So putting a lot of people in prison for a long time does not reduce crime.

people can be locked up for as long as we decide to lock them up

here's what it should be

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm 25 years no parole
Any murder committed with a firearm life no parole

and it reduces crime for as long as they are in prison

You're right not be concerned about society. You've no clue how it functions.

I don't what it means when you say they can be locked up as long as you want. There are rules for it. You have decided that the prison terms are unduly long, true. But you are precisely the bad example about how it doesn't work in long term.

Keeping people in prison costs money and burdens the society as well as the economy The prisons are too full. It is unsustainable.

Laws are made by people

if we the people decide that a 25 year sentence for any crime committed while in possession of a gun is warranted then it will be

and all we have to do is come up with alternate sentencing for nonviolent criminals that will leave more than enough room for the violent pieces of shit to be locked up for a long time

Laws are made by the state. If you don't bother to do as much as pay taxes for the benefit of your fellows, you're not who decides those. It requires understanding.

 

[Flopper]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

 

[Auld Phart]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

They should also not be allowed to defend themselves, right?

 

[Meane]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

What does it matter when they can buy them off from just anyone anyway?

 

[2aguy]

Law abiding people aren't committing the vast majority of shootings the criminals who obtain guns illegally are

And they may obtain them from people who you don't know are illegally selling them forward.

and again how am I as a law abiding citizen responsible for the behavior of criminals?

Can you forget yourself for a moment and think of a society?

We are, you are not. Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack...that is lives saved, lives not destroyed....how many lives did criminals take.....in 2015, 9,616.....and of those 70-80% are not normal citizens, but other criminals engaged in crime....and the rest, many are family and friends of the criminals...

So the number of innocent people who are killed is dwarfed by those who are saved.......

Cars are used to accidentally kill more people every single year than are purposefully taken with guns...

But it is not your right to kill a man because intends to hurt you. You only have the right to kill a man if he is about to kill you and you have no other way to stop it.

On the other hand, you said ..Criminals see stopped and...Criminals took lives. How often do they kill the criminal then?

Of the 1,500,000 times a year on average that Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack, the majority of the time the weapon is never fired......and when the criminal is stupid enough to press the attack against a law abiding, but armed citizen...they get killed about 235 times a year...the rest of the time they run away, are held till the police arrive or are merely wounded....

 

[2aguy]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

What does it matter when they can buy them off from just anyone anyway?

The ACLU didn't say allowing schizophrenics and those with dangerous psychotic disorders should have guns.....they simply pointed out that most people who can't handle their finances are not dangerously mentally ill or mentally ill in a way that would deny them their Right to own a gun.....

 

[2aguy]

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

50 for me.

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

But that doesn't work, does it?

I mean the US has either the highest or the second highest prison population in the world, in the first world it has the highest, and yet also has the worst murder rate in the first world. Louisiana has the highest prison population in the US and the highest murder rate. And yet you're telling me that locking people up is the answer.

Why do you think states with higher levels of education usually have lower rates of crime and murder?

Nope....you are wrong.....repeat gun offenders serve less than 2 years for carrying an illegal gun...even as a felon......that is the problem....these shooters are getting out of jail in under 3 years and then killing people, even though they have been caught as felons with illegal guns......what we need to do is lock them up for 30 years, if they are violent felons caught with illegal guns...

That is how Japan is keeping their Yakuza members from using guns and grenades.....they lock up criminals caught with guns for 30 years....they also go to the criminal's Yakuza boss and charge them money to reimburse the victim...that is how they do it....

 

[2aguy]

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

50 for me.

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

But that doesn't work, does it?

I mean the US has either the highest or the second highest prison population in the world, in the first world it has the highest, and yet also has the worst murder rate in the first world. Louisiana has the highest prison population in the US and the highest murder rate. And yet you're telling me that locking people up is the answer.

Why do you think states with higher levels of education usually have lower rates of crime and murder?

It is the democrat cities in Louisiana that are violent....and even in those cities, the violence is contained in small areas...just like in Chicago.....and St. Louis.......

Guns aren't the problem....single teenage mothers raising young males without fathers.....fathers who would teach those young males to control their impulses....

 

[2aguy]

Do you want me to come up with a list a mile long of the shit you have that aren't necessities?

The collection of my empty notebooks are not a threat to anyone.

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

neither are my guns and 30 plus years of my owning guns bears that out

50 for me.

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

How do you know person x is law abiding?

They have not been arrested and found guilty of a crime.....90% of the killers in this country have long histories of crime and violence....70-80% of gun murder victims also have long histories of crime and felonies.....

 

[2aguy]

50 for me.

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

Your proposition does not lower crime rate. People can't be locked up for long just so as to keep them still unless they are mentally ill. In other cases they must be let out after the punishment is over and long prison terms do not lower the chances of that person committing a crime again. So putting a lot of people in prison for a long time does not reduce crime.

people can be locked up for as long as we decide to lock them up

here's what it should be

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm 25 years no parole
Any murder committed with a firearm life no parole

and it reduces crime for as long as they are in prison

That is how the Japanese stopped the Yakuza from using guns and grenades....

 

[2aguy]

and again how am I as a law abiding citizen responsible for the behavior of criminals?

Can you forget yourself for a moment and think of a society?

We are, you are not. Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack...that is lives saved, lives not destroyed....how many lives did criminals take.....in 2015, 9,616.....and of those 70-80% are not normal citizens, but other criminals engaged in crime....and the rest, many are family and friends of the criminals...

So the number of innocent people who are killed is dwarfed by those who are saved.......

Cars are used to accidentally kill more people every single year than are purposefully taken with guns...

But it is not your right to kill a man because intends to hurt you. You only have the right to kill a man if he is about to kill you and you have no other way to stop it.

On the other hand, you said ..Criminals see stopped and...Criminals took lives. How often do they kill the criminal then?

Actually all you need is a reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm

If you were correct and you're not then a person is not allowed to kill to defend himself from a beating so severe it might leave him wheelchair bound or with severe mental disabilities

many times just the pulling of a firearm will defuse the situation
many times the criminal piece of shit is merely wounded and unable to continue his attack

in 2012 there were 259 justifiable homicides

so you see the piece of shit criminals you are so worried about are more likely not to be killed that they are to be killed by law abiding gun owners

Does this mean the rest from the 1,500,000 were only injured?

Most criminals run away from citizens defending themselves with guns...others are captured and held for the police.....and then others have to be shot.....not all of them die...most don't die....and then they go to jail...

 

[2aguy]

these people can't just admit that law abiding gun owners are not the problem

Well they're not.

The problems are many and great. Some of the biggest problems are like what we discussed about education, and probably the biggest is an attitude which tries to say "we're not willing to improve our society", similar to you have. I do understand about govt staying out of people's lives, the problem is that I also understand what happens when people have a govt that doesn't work as it should, and that's the USA.

The gun issue is a secondary issue, part of the problem is the gun issue EXACERBATES the already bad situation in the US. But people aren't willing to deal with the major issues, and so they go for the secondary issues.

Well you think a government that works the way it should is when people are coerced into what you think are "right" behaviors via tax penalties and indoctrination

And really the problem is that we allow violent criminals to stay on the street.

You want to reduce gun crime? Then put people who commit crimes while in the possession of a gun away for a long long time

Your proposition does not lower crime rate. People can't be locked up for long just so as to keep them still unless they are mentally ill. In other cases they must be let out after the punishment is over and long prison terms do not lower the chances of that person committing a crime again. So putting a lot of people in prison for a long time does not reduce crime.

people can be locked up for as long as we decide to lock them up

here's what it should be

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm 25 years no parole
Any murder committed with a firearm life no parole

and it reduces crime for as long as they are in prison

You're right not be concerned about society. You've no clue how it functions.

I don't what it means when you say they can be locked up as long as you want. There are rules for it. You have decided that the prison terms are unduly long, true. But you are precisely the bad example about how it doesn't work in long term.

Keeping people in prison costs money and burdens the society as well as the economy The prisons are too full. It is unsustainable.

It costs society less to pay for prison than it does to allow them to roam around in society....

Most gun criminals in Chicago serve less than 2 years...the Illinois Senate just passed a long needed law to increase the length of prison sentences for repeat gun offenders.....

 

[Flopper]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

They should also not be allowed to defend themselves, right?

That's right. People that can't tell what's real from what they imagine should not be defending themselves or anyone else.

 

[Auld Phart]

For all their dysfunction, the Republican Senate and House have managed to act with lightning speed in striking down a sensible Obama administration rule designed to stop people with severe mental problems from buying guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/congress-says-let-the-mentally-ill-buy-guns.html

People with schizophrenia and serve psychotic disorders who can't manage their financial affairs should not be sold guns. That's just plain stupid.

They should also not be allowed to defend themselves, right?

That's right. People that can't tell what's real from what they imagine should not be defending themselves or anyone else.

People that can't tell what's real from what they imagine should not be defending themselves or anyone else.

People that have been diagnosed by an agent in a cubicle at the IRS or a Social Security office as incompetent to handle their own finances shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm?

Does that go for Drivers Licenses as well?

What other parts of your life should those cubicle monkeys be in charge of?