In this thread, http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...3109-the-case-for-universal-healthcare-6.html AVG-Joe has brought up Social Security a few times (as a model for government involved health care). Now, my point here isn't to call him out on that, but rather to point out something about SS benefits. Take a look at this chart, Life Expectancy at Birth by Race and Sex, 1930–2005 — Infoplease.com Now, Social Security starts paying out when one reaches the age of 62 (at the earliest, or you can defer to later in life if you want to). Notice that the black male born prior to 1975 has a life expectancy of less than 62 years. In other words, most black men born before that will not collect SS. Essentially, there is a fairly large portion of society that will pay into SS for approximately 40 years and never collect one single dime that they pay in. That doesn't even count all the people (both races and both sexes) that will only collect for a few years what they spent 40+ years contributing to. It's just something I find interesting.