Civility impossible?

[whitehall]

When people become fearful of engaging in political arguments or when a decree from the monarch forbids political insults or when the government determines standards of "civility" is when we are in big trouble.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

Civility is useless when it comes to anything. What counts is results, not process.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Last time I tried that arguement was in 7th grade Algebra. "Why show my work if I can figure out the answer in my head?" It's the process you're being taught so you can do more complicated equations you couldn't do in your head. Had they simply explained that to me then I wouldn't have rebelled.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Last time I tried that arguement was in 7th grade Algebra. "Why show my work if I can figure out the answer in my head?" It's the process you're being taught so you can do more complicated equations you couldn't do in your head. Had they simply explained that to me then I wouldn't have rebelled.

The teacher tried to insist I needed to show my work, I ignored her because I was right.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

As the principal proved me wrong:

# Simplify the following expression:

[ 1/(x - 1) + x + 3 ] / [ x - 3 + 1/(x + 4) ]

Go ahead. Solve it in your head

 

[Avatar4321]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Maintain the moral high-ground and refuse to jump down in the muck with rude people. The one who cusses first, looses. (Delta's Rules of Debate)

I can't make others civil. I can only choose civility for myself and advocate for others to do so as well.

So no, civility isn't impossible. But like all virtues, it cannot be coerced.

My theory is that most of our problems can be traced to a culture in decay, and this is an example.

We've become a terribly narcissistic society, clearly egged on and motivated by the various partisan pundits who deal in intellectually dishonest absolutes. I don't know if people are trying to literally emulate them or if they're simply inspired by them, but it's not difficult at all to see the similarities between their behavior and that of their heroes.

I don't know how this gets turned around. The obvious answer would be that well-known "leaders" -- political, cultural, religious, business, media, whatever, all of the above -- have to appear and lead the way out of this darkness. They would have to promote some sort of ground rules and (more importantly) cultural expectations for honesty, maturity and civility, and then create some kind of momentum from which the change can begin.

Problem is, I don't see any of these "leaders" doing anything of the sort, and I have to admit I'm not terribly hopeful. The intolerant, absolutist screamers have the energy and the influence, and they're dragging us down pretty quickly.

.

Culture is determined by our individual actions. If the culture is decaying, it means the people are decaying from the inside.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

When one side wants to rip me off to pay for some loser? Hell no I wont be civil.
They can just be thankful they aren't in my face telling me I'm paying for their healthcare,obama phone,rent,food,electricity and every thing else they need so they can sit on the porch selling crack and drinking forties. Extermination is to good for em.
There are consequences to being lazy bum...oh wait,not anymore. In fact it pays to be a lazy bum. Uncle sugar will take care of all my needs.

Whats happening to my country makes me sick.

 

[Sarah G]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

I have a theory that people find it fun and interesting to bicker.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

I have a theory that people find it fun and interesting to bicker.

Better then going on a killing spree.

 

[Sarah G]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

I have a theory that people find it fun and interesting to bicker.

Better then going on a killing spree.

Someone thinking of going on a killing spree?

 

[Statistikhengst]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

Civility is useless when it comes to anything. What counts is results, not process.

You know, many dictators throughout history have voiced this very same opinon...

 

[Statistikhengst]

I have a theory that people find it fun and interesting to bicker.

Better then going on a killing spree.

Someone thinking of going on a killing spree?

Not recommended. It's gets the new carpets all bloody and such...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I have a theory that people find it fun and interesting to bicker.

Better then going on a killing spree.

Someone thinking of going on a killing spree?

Not that I know of. But if bickering stops em from doing it? I'm all for it.

 

[Flopper]

Better then going on a killing spree.

Someone thinking of going on a killing spree?

Not that I know of. But if bickering stops em from doing it? I'm all for it.

I think you have to ask yourself what your goal is in posting.

If you're trying to make a difference, that is changing some ones opinion, you're not going to do it by being being rude and disrespectful.

If you're posting to vent your frustrations, then you'll probably find some one just as frustrated on the other side of the issue and you can trade insults. If that's what floats your boat, then so be it. It's all about freedom of expression.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As the principal proved me wrong:

# Simplify the following expression:

[ 1/(x - 1) + x + 3 ] / [ x - 3 + 1/(x + 4) ]

Go ahead. Solve it in your head

I leave shit like that for teachers and idiots, I use a computer.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

710 Threads in this forum vs over 100,000 in just the other 2. Should we infer civility is impossible when it comes to politics? Or that most participants are incapable of making their points without insults?

Civility is useless when it comes to anything. What counts is results, not process.

You know, many dictators throughout history have voiced this very same opinon...

And all of them insisted on civility, what's your point?

 

[Statistikhengst]

Civility is useless when it comes to anything. What counts is results, not process.

You know, many dictators throughout history have voiced this very same opinon...

And all of them insisted on civility, what's your point?

Actually, no, they did not.

And the point is that ignoring the process and only caring about results means that many throughout history have thrown their ethics and morality out the window in order to achieve said results, cost what it may. THAT'S the point.

 

[Statistikhengst]

As the principal proved me wrong:

# Simplify the following expression:

[ 1/(x - 1) + x + 3 ] / [ x - 3 + 1/(x + 4) ]

Go ahead. Solve it in your head

I leave shit like that for teachers and idiots, I use a computer.

And therein, ladies and gentlemen, lies the difference between Liberals and Conservatives:

Liberals labor hard to find a workable answer.

Conservatives simply cheat.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know, many dictators throughout history have voiced this very same opinon...

And all of them insisted on civility, what's your point?

Actually, no, they did not.

And the point is that ignoring the process and only caring about results means that many throughout history have thrown their ethics and morality out the window in order to achieve said results, cost what it may. THAT'S the point.

They supported free speech and allowed people to insult them? Seriously?

 

[flacaltenn]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Maintain the moral high-ground and refuse to jump down in the muck with rude people. The one who cusses first, looses. (Delta's Rules of Debate)

I can't make others civil. I can only choose civility for myself and advocate for others to do so as well.

So no, civility isn't impossible. But like all virtues, it cannot be coerced.

My theory is that most of our problems can be traced to a culture in decay, and this is an example.

We've become a terribly narcissistic society, clearly egged on and motivated by the various partisan pundits who deal in intellectually dishonest absolutes. I don't know if people are trying to literally emulate them or if they're simply inspired by them, but it's not difficult at all to see the similarities between their behavior and that of their heroes.

I don't know how this gets turned around. The obvious answer would be that well-known "leaders" -- political, cultural, religious, business, media, whatever, all of the above -- have to appear and lead the way out of this darkness. They would have to promote some sort of ground rules and (more importantly) cultural expectations for honesty, maturity and civility, and then create some kind of momentum from which the change can begin.

Problem is, I don't see any of these "leaders" doing anything of the sort, and I have to admit I'm not terribly hopeful. The intolerant, absolutist screamers have the energy and the influence, and they're dragging us down pretty quickly.

.

........culture in decay -----CHECK.
..........narcissistic ------CHECK
........... intellectually dishonest pundits ..... CHECK
........ everything screaming absolutes bad ...... Not So Much..

MANY absolutes worth defending. The leadership issue is that right and wrong depend on who got caught this time. Two partisian camps commit the same offenses and argue about who is MORE honest or MORE mature or MORE civil.. Whats missing is holding folks accountable TO ABSOLUTES.. Most of us are tired of choosing between MORE or LESS honest.. SOME of us believe ther is only honest and not honest... Reason tells you that "more or less" INCREASES the rate of slipping society into incivility..

Should start with opening up both the political ballot access and party parity. Second to that is having "term limits" for the spinning heads that appear in the media. 300million folks in this country and the SAME DAMN 30 heads dominate political discussion...