Civil War and some Myths.

[paperview]

That broadside I just posted also said:

"...it ought not to be considered polemically or politically improper in me to vindicate the position which has been at an early day of this Southern republic, assumed by the Confederacy, namely, that slavery is the corner stone of a Western republic."

The CORNERSTONE.

BOTH the Vice President and President of the Confederacy said it explicitly.

 

[Toro]

So, slavery wasn't a cause of the Civil War then? Is that what y'all are saying? It was more of a side issue, kind of like the birther issue today?

 

[paperview]

So, slavery wasn't a cause of the Civil War then? Is that what y'all are saying? It was more of a side issue, kind of like the birther issue today?

Some here are still trying to make it about Tariffs.

It's a way of saving face, of not having to face the reality and lost honor of knowing the foundation of the conflict rested on the continued subjugation of human beings.
Black human beings, which comprised more than a third of the Southern population and, in some states, population counts of majority slaves. Think of that. More slaves than Free.

Tariffs you see...even though Southerners themselves had written the Tariff of 1857, and those rates were historically low, lower than at any point since 1816.

No major historian buys that argument, but Lost Causers still try.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The fundamental problem is that we simply disagree on who started the Civil War. If you look at why Lincoln fought the Civil War it's clear that he did so over tariffs. He wanted the revenue that the south brought in, and didn't want to compete against a free trade Confederacy. If you look at the reason why some of the southern States seceded, you see concerns over slavery.

 

[Toro]

So, slavery wasn't a cause of the Civil War then? Is that what y'all are saying? It was more of a side issue, kind of like the birther issue today?

Some here are still trying to make it about Tariffs.

It's a way of saving face, of not having to face the reality and lost honor of knowing the foundation of the conflict rested on the continued subjugation of human beings.
Black human beings, which comprised more than a third of the Southern population and, in some states, population counts of majority slaves. Think of that. More slaves than Free.

Tariffs you see...even though Southerners themselves had written the Tariff of 1857, and those rates were historically low, lower than at any point since 1816.

No major historian buys that argument, but Lost Causers still try.

I studied economic history of North America from a pre-eminent economic historian. His take on it was that tariffs played a fairly significant role in the Civil War. Being a Canadian, that was the first I'd ever heard of it. I thought he was exaggerating.

The funny thing is that slavery retarded both social and economic development of the South. All economic growth is a function of productivity growth, and all productivity growth requires higher levels of knowledge, which means more education. Mechanization requires education. The agrarian slave system required slaves remain uneducated meaning the South never had a chance to industrialize.

 

[paperview]

The fundamental problem is that we simply disagree on who started the Civil War. If you look at why Lincoln fought the Civil War it's clear that he did so over tariffs. He wanted the revenue that the south brought in, and didn't want to compete against a free trade Confederacy. If you look at the reason why some of the southern States seceded, you see concerns over slavery.

The fires were burning years before, Kevin. You know this.

The slavery issue was a major one in the preceding presidential election. (not to mention the high intensity of the full decade...)

The South was itching for a fight, and they intended to take it home over that issue.

Let's go back, 4 years earlier, to just before the November, 1856 election.
Here is an article from ----> OCT 1856, from the New York Times, quoting a Richmond editorial, entitled: LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE

...where future secessionist threaten and the evil of what they term "Black Republicanism" (their term for the Republicans who favored black equality) is castigated.

I present a picture of the actual paper below...read it:

Here is the top line:

It begins:
"The Southern political Press has never been more open and frank in its avowal of political purposes and plans,
than it is during the present canvass.
The triumphs of Slavery during the past four years,--the successful repeal of the Missouri Compromise, a measure for which oven Mr. CALHOUN never dared to hope,--and the ready, eager promptitude with which the Democratic party at Cincinnati yielded to the exactions of the Slaveholding power, seemed to have inspired the political leaders of the South with the belief, that time has come when they can safely and even with advantage to themselves, make open proclamation of the projects they have in store for the future.

....We invite attention to the following lead editorial from Richmond:

The great object of the South in supporting Buchanan is to promote and extend the perpetuation of the "conservative institution of Slavery." And the votes by which it is hoped he may be elected, are to become the basis of a secession movement and the formation of a Southern Slave Confederacy...
​

​

Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back

....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within,
will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people...

,...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity,licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood...

See the full newspaper article here: (!) Bold Avowals--The Election of Buchanan to be a Stop Towards Disunion. - Article - NYTimes.com
​

 

[Publius1787]

Yeah. Obviously, tariffs. lol

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

Slavery was off the table by the time these seeches were made. There was no need to seceed to maintain slavery. It was confimed by congress, the supreme court, and lincoln both during the debates and while president. There is absolutly positivly no reason to secede to maintain slavery. Unless your trying to hype it up.

 

[paperview]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Publius1787]

Wow. Just wow.

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

 

[Toro]

Wow. Just wow.

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

So the slavery thing as a cause of the Civil War is all a myth then?

 

[paperview]

Wow. Just wow.

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

This just confirms for me, you really are either, as originally assumed:

1) 14 years old.

or
2) Know very, very little about the actual history of the Civil War and all the associated original documents
3) Are somewhat retarded.

It has to be one of these. There can be no other explanation.

 

[paperview]

Slavery was off the table by the time the South Seceded,



Oh my. I can't stop laughing at this absurd statement.

 

[Toro]

Slavery was off the table by the time the South Seceded,



Oh my. I can't stop laughing at this absurd statement.

Sounds like revisionist history to me. But I haven't studied enough of it.

 

[paperview]

Wow. Just wow.

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

So the slavery thing as a cause of the Civil War is all a myth then?

Guess so, huh? Can you believe it?

Is this guy for real?

I guess we all these states actually telling us why they were seceding was a myth too.

Louisiana:

"Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity...

The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy. If she remains in the union the abolitionists would continue their work of incendiarism and murder. Emigrant aid societies would arm with Sharp's rifles predatory bands to infest her northern borders. The Federal Government would mock at her calamity in accepting the recent bribes in the army bill and Pacific railroad bill, and with abolition treachery would leave her unprotected frontier to the murderous inroads of hostile savages....

That constitution the Southern States have never violated, and taking it as the basis of our new government we hope to form a slave-holding confederacy that will secure to us and our remotest posterity the great blessings its authors designed in the Federal Union. With the social balance wheel of slavery to regulate its machinery, we may fondly indulge the hope that our Southern government will be perpetual."

Geo. Williamson
Commissioner of the State of Louisiana
City of Austin Feby 11th 1861.
Address of George Williamson to the Texas Secession Convention
​

The plea from South Carolina to the other southern states:

"We prefer, however, our system of industry, by which labor and capital are identified in interest, and capital, therefore, protects labor; by which our population doubles every twenty years; by which starvation is unknown, and abundance crowns the land; by which order is preserved by unpaid police, and the most fertile regions of the world where the Caucasian cannot labor are brought into usefulness by the labor of the African, and the whole world is blessed by our own productions....

We ask you to join us in forming a confederacy of Slaveholding States."
Address of South Carolina to Slaveholding States by Convention of South Carolina

Texas:

The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article [the fugitive slave clause] of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate the amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holding States in their domestic institutions-- a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

"In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union​

Speech to Tennessee Legislature by the Governor:

In discharge of official duty, I had occasion, within the past year, to demand of the Governor of Ohio " a person charged in the State (of Tennessee) with the crime " of slave stealing, who had fled from justice, and was found in the State of Ohio.' The Governor refused to issue his warrant for the arrest and delivery of the fugitive, and in answer to a letter of inquiry which I addressed to him, said: 'The crime of negro stealing not being known to either the common law or the criminal code of Ohio, it is not of that class of crimes contemplated by the Federal Constitution, for the commission of which I am authorized, as the executive of Ohio, to surrender a fugitive from the justice of a sister State, and hence I declined to issue a warrant," &c.; thus deliberately nullifying and setting at defiance the clause of the Constitution above quoted, as well as the act of Congress of February 12th, 1793, and grossly violating the ordinary comity existing between separate and independent nations, much less the comity which should exist between sister States of the same great Confederacy; the correspondence connected with which is herewith transmitted.
​

It has, through the executive authority of other States, denied extradition of murderers and marauders.
​

It obtained its own compromise in the Constitution to continue the importation of slaves, and now sets up a law, higher than the Constitution, to destroy this property imported and sold to us by their fathers.

It has caused the murder of owners in pursuit of their fugitive slaves, and shielded the murderers from punishment.

It has, upon many occasions, sent its emissaries into the Southern States to corrupt our slaves; induce them to run off, or excite them to insurrection.

It has run off slave property by means of the "underground railroad," amounting in value to millions of dollars, and thus made the tenure by which slaves are held in the border States so precarious as to materially impair their value.
Alabama."
Speech of Tennessee Governor Isham G. Harris for Secession
​

(I particularly like this speech; if slavery was abolished and slaves set free, then Whites would be forced to commit murder!):

ALABAMA:

"I wish, Mr. President, to express the feelings with which I vote for the secession of Alabama from the Government of the United States; and to state, in a few words, the reasons that impel me to this act.

I feel impelled, Mr. President, to vote for this Ordinance by an overruling necessity. Years ago I was convinced that the Southern States would be compelled either to separate from the North, by dissolving the Federal Government, or they would be compelled to abolish the institution of African Slavery. This, in my judgment, was the only alternative; and I foresaw that the South would be compelled, at some day, to make her selection. The day is now come, and Alabama must make her selection, either to secede from the Union, and assume the position of a sovereign, independent State, or she must submit to a system of policy on the part of the Federal Government that, in a short time, will compel her to abolish African Slavery.
​

Mr. President, if pecuniary loss alone were involved in the abolition of slavery, I should hesitate long before I would give the vote I now intend to give. If the destruction of slavery entailed on us poverty alone, I could bear it, for I have seen poverty and felt its sting. But poverty, Mr. President, would be one of the least of the evils that would befall us from the abolition of African slavery. There are now in the slaveholding States over four millions of slaves; dissolve the relation of master and slave, and what, I ask, would become of that race? To remove them from amongst us is impossible. History gives us no account of the exodus of such a number of persons. We neither have a place to which to remove them, nor the means of such removal. They therefore must remain with us; and if the relation of master and slave be dissolved, and our slaves turned loose amongst us without restraint, they would either be destroyed by our own hands-- the hands to which they look, and look with confidence, for protection-- or we ourselves would become demoralized and degraded. The former result would take place, and we ourselves would become the executioners of our own slaves. To this extent would the policy of our Northern enemies drive us; and thus would we not only be reduced to poverty, but what is still worse, we should be driven to crime, to the commission of sin; and we must, therefore, this day elect between the Government formed by our fathers (the whole spirit of which has been perverted), and POVERTY AND CRIME!
Speech of E.S. Dargan Secession Convention of Alabama 1861
​

South Carolina:

Quote:
The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due." [Fugitive Slave Clause]

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them.
In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Mississippi:

Quote:
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
Avalon Project - Confederate States of America - Mississippi Secession

Georgia:

For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery...

All these classes saw this and felt it and cast about for new allies. The anti-slavery sentiment of the North offered the best chance for success. An anti-slavery party must necessarily look to the North alone for support, but a united North was now strong enough to control the Government in all of its departments, and a sectional party was therefore determined upon. Time and issues upon slavery were necessary to its completion and final triumph. The feeling of anti-slavery, which it was well known was very general among the people of the North, had been long dormant or passive; it needed only a question to arouse it into aggressive activity. This question was before us. We had acquired a large territory by successful war with Mexico; Congress had to govern it; how, in relation to slavery, was the question then demanding solution. This state of facts gave form and shape to the anti-slavery sentiment throughout the North and the conflict began. Northern anti-slavery men of all parties asserted the right to exclude slavery from the territory by Congressional legislation and demanded the prompt and efficient exercise of this power to that end. This insulting and unconstitutional demand was met with great moderation and firmness by the South...
​

The prohibition of slavery in the Territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees in its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its leaders and applauded by its followers.

With these principles on their banners and these utterances on their lips the majority of the people of the North demand that we shall receive them as our rulers.

But they know the value of parchment rights in treacherous hands, and therefore they refuse to commit their own to the rulers whom the North offers us. Why? Because by their declared principles and policy they have outlawed $3,000,000,000 of our property** in the common territories of the Union; put it under the ban of the Republic in the States where it exists and out of the protection of Federal law everywhere; because they give sanctuary to thieves and incendiaries who assail it to the whole extent of their power, in spite of their most solemn obligations and covenants; because their avowed purpose is to subvert our society and subject us not only to the loss of our property but the destruction of ourselves, our wives, and our children, and the desolation of our homes, our altars, and our firesides. To avoid these evils we resume the powers which our fathers delegated to the Government of the United States, and henceforth will seek new safeguards for our liberty, equality, security, and tranquility.
​

**property = humans
Georgia Declarations of Causes of Seceding States Civil War

Confederate Constitution Secession Articles of American Civil War

Yep...it was off the table.

 

[Publius1787]

Wow. Just wow.

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

So the slavery thing as a cause of the Civil War is all a myth then?

No, it had its role. And they did beleive that slavery and states rights were inseperatable. BUT IF SLAVERY WAS THE ONLY ISSUE THEY WOULD NOT HAVE SECEDED.

 

[Ringel05]

Yeah. Obviously, tariffs. lol

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

Slavery was off the table by the time these seeches were made. There was no need to seceed to maintain slavery. It was confimed by congress, the supreme court, and lincoln both during the debates and while president. There is absolutly positivly no reason to secede to maintain slavery. Unless your trying to hype it up.

Now that's nothing more than individual interpretation of events without a clear understanding of cultural influences. Once again, slavery, secession and states rights at this period in time cannot be separated, all historical facts taken in context with the cultural applications of the time prove this so your assessment is incorrect.

 

[Publius1787]

Please dont force me to post all of the Lincoln quotes and congressional affirmations of slavery. Whether you want to admit to it or not, by the time the southern states seceded slavery was off the table. That fact is non debateable. No one was going to legally or legislativly take the souths slaves away. There is no need to secede over somthing that isnt an issue.

So the slavery thing as a cause of the Civil War is all a myth then?

Guess so, huh? Can you believe it?

Is this guy for real?

I guess we all these states actually telling us why they were seceding was a myth too.


The plea from South Carolina to the other southern states:

"We prefer, however, our system of industry, by which labor and capital are identified in interest, and capital, therefore, protects labor; by which our population doubles every twenty years; by which starvation is unknown, and abundance crowns the land; by which order is preserved by unpaid police, and the most fertile regions of the world where the Caucasian cannot labor are brought into usefulness by the labor of the African, and the whole world is blessed by our own productions....

Yep...it was off the table.

I'm not going to go through all the speeches of which you cherry picked paragraphs. I did click one and found this jewel from south carolina which is from the FRST part of the speech.

The one great evil, from which all other evils have flowed, is the overthrow of the Constitution of the United States. The Government of the United States is no longer the government of Confederated Republics, but of a consolidated Democracy. It is, in face such a Government as Great Britain attempted to set over our Fathers; and which was resisted and defeated by a seven years’ struggle for independence.

Slavery was off the table.

Lincoln on Slavery and Blacks

On Slavery:
"... when they [slaveowners] remind us of their constitutional rights, I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives." ~ Lincoln, speaking in support of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.

"...in nearly all the published speeches of him who now addresses you... I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that 'I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.' "

"I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable." ~ Lincoln, speaking in regards to slavery and in support of a proposed Thirteenth Amendment to explicitly guarantee slavery.

As his own words demonstrate, Lincoln was willing to accomodate slavery. As was shown in the taxation section above, it was only the tariff that he would never compromise on.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Blacks:
"The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these territories. We want them for the homes of free white people." ~ Lincoln, on whether blacks – slave or free – should be allowed in the new territories in the west, October 16, 1854.

"I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary." ~ Lincoln, Aug. 21, 1858, in remarks stating his belief that blacks were naturally inferior to whites, which was a nearly universal belief on the part of whites in both the North and South long before and long after the Civil War.

"Root, hog, or die" ~ Lincoln's suggestion to illiterate and propertyless ex-slaves unprepared for freedom, Feb. 3, 1865.

"They had better be set to digging their subsistence out of the ground." ~ Lincoln in a War Department memo, April 16, 1863

"Send them to Liberia, to their own native land." ~ Lincoln, speaking in favor of ethnic cleansing all blacks from the United States.

"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I favor colonization." ~ Lincoln, in a message to Congress, December 1, 1862, supporting deportation of all blacks from America.

"President Lincoln may colonize himself if he choose, but it is an impertinent act, on his part, to propose the getting rid of those who are as good as himself." ~ America's preeminent immediate Abolitionist and advocate of free trade, William Lloyd Garrison.

"[Lincoln] had not a drop of anti-slavery blood in his veins." ~ William Lloyd Garrison.

The comments shown here illustrate that abolition was not what motivated Lincoln. The coldness in Lincoln's remarks, the lack of thought and preparation about the process of emancipation, and how the freedman would cope without the necessary skills is readily apparent.

 

[Publius1787]

Yeah. Obviously, tariffs. lol

Stephan Dodson Ramseur, Confederate general: "...Slavery, the very source of our existence, the greatest blessing both for Master & Slave that could have been bestowed upon us."

Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi, December 27, 1860: "Mr. President, it seems to me that northern Senators most pertinaciously overlook the main point at issue between the two sections of our Confederacy. We claim that there is property in slaves, and they deny it. Until we shall settle, upon some basis, that point of controversy, it is idle to talk of going any further."

Richmond Enquirer, 1856: "Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."

Atlanta Confederacy, 1860: "We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."

G. T. Yelverton, of Coffee County, Alabama, speaking to the Alabama Secession Convention on January 25, 1861: "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

John B. Baldwin, Augusta County delegate to the Virginia Secession Convention, March 21, 1861: "I say, then, that viewed from that standpoint, there is but one single subject of complaint which Virginia has to make against the government under which we live; a complaint made by the whole South, and that is on the subject of African slavery...."

Slavery was off the table by the time these seeches were made. There was no need to seceed to maintain slavery. It was confimed by congress, the supreme court, and lincoln both during the debates and while president. There is absolutly positivly no reason to secede to maintain slavery. Unless your trying to hype it up.

Now that's nothing more than individual interpretation of events without a clear understanding of cultural influences. Once again, slavery, secession and states rights at this period in time cannot be separated, all historical facts taken in context with the cultural applications of the time prove this so your assessment is incorrect.

Thats allready been addressed and proven in this thread. But you will enjoy this. PAY ATTENTION TO THE PART ABOUT THE TARRIFS BEING DOUBLED BEFORE LINCOLN TOOK OFFICE.

 

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So the slavery thing as a cause of the Civil War is all a myth then?

Guess so, huh? Can you believe it?

Is this guy for real?

I guess we all these states actually telling us why they were seceding was a myth too.


The plea from South Carolina to the other southern states:

"We prefer, however, our system of industry, by which labor and capital are identified in interest, and capital, therefore, protects labor; by which our population doubles every twenty years; by which starvation is unknown, and abundance crowns the land; by which order is preserved by unpaid police, and the most fertile regions of the world where the Caucasian cannot labor are brought into usefulness by the labor of the African, and the whole world is blessed by our own productions....

Yep...it was off the table.

I'm not going to go through all the speeches of which you cherry picked paragraphs. I did click one and found this jewel from south carolina which is from the FRST part of the speech.

The one great evil, from which all other evils have flowed, is the overthrow of the Constitution of the United States. The Government of the United States is no longer the government of Confederated Republics, but of a consolidated Democracy. It is, in face such a Government as Great Britain attempted to set over our Fathers; and which was resisted and defeated by a seven years’ struggle for independence.

Slavery was off the table.

Of course you won't take the time to read them. that would mean educating yourself on the actual words spoken by the states at the time.

Pretty damn important, but that would conflict with your stubborn Lost Cause narrative. Each and every citation there is accompanied by a link of the entire document or speech. You can't claim cherry-picking when you can read the whole thing in context. I supplied portions in an effort to save space (and even then, took too much bandwidth) - but anyone is free to read the whole work.

But let's see...Ah yes, South Carolina.

Let's look at the

Address of South Carolina to Slaveholding States by Convention of South Carolina

Yes, Taxation is addressed, but a better portion of it deals with how important their slaves were to them in the whole matter. In fact, in their actual Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union, pretty much most of it was about Slavery. Yes, they addressed what they saw as constitutional transgressions, but these centered around ...what? The constitutional protections of slavery!

But let's look at that Address:

"[At the time the Constitution was written] There was then, no Tariff � no fanaticism concerning negroes.

It was the delegates from New England, who proposed in the Convention which framed the Constitution, to the delegates from South Carolina and Georgia, that if they would agree to give Congress the power of regulating commerce by a majority, that they would support the extension of the African Slave Trade for twenty years.

African Slavery, existed in all the States, but one. The idea, that the Southern States would be made to pay that tribute to their Northern confederates, which they had refused to pay to Great Britain; or that the institution of African slavery, would be made the grand basis of a sectional organization of the North to rule the South, never crossed the imaginations of our ancestors. The Union of the Constitution, was a union of slaveholding States. It rests on slavery, by prescribing a Representation in Congress for three�fifths of our slaves."
​

The believed the Union rested on Slavery. They believed the Founders never could have imagined any proposed abolition of the system of bondage and their way of life.

"But if African slavery in the Southern States, be the evil their political combination affirms it to be, the requisitions of an inexorable logic, must lead them to emancipation. If it is right, to preclude or abolish slavery in a territory�why should it be allowed to remain in the States? The one is not at all more unconstitutional than the other, according to the decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States. And when it is considered, that the Northern States will soon have the power to make that Court what they please, and that the Constitution has never been any barrier whatever to their exercise of power�what check can there be, in the unrestrained councils of the North, to emancipation?
​

In Ironies of Ironies, above they cite the Dred Scott decision, the one that states even Free Blacks could never be and never were Citizens of this country. ..
More than of third of the populace of the South were Non-Citizens, yet they carry on about Freedom and Liberty, Contentment and Happiness:

"Indeed, no people ever expect to preserve its rights and liberties, unless these be in its own custody. To plunder and oppress, where plunder and oppression can be practiced with impunity, seems to be the natural order of things. The fairest portions of the world elsewhere, have been turned into wilderness; and the most civilized and prosperous communities, have been impoverished and ruined by anti�slavery fanaticism. ...
The very object of all Constitutions, in free popular Government, is to restrain the majority. Constitutions, therefore, according to their theory, must be most unrighteous inventions, restricting liberty.
....Contentment, is a great element of happiness, with nations as with individuals. We, are satisfied with ours.​

What they were concerned about, more than anything, was losing their free labor and subjugating their Non-Citizens, their Africans :
"We prefer, however, our system of industry, by which labor and capital are identified in interest, and capital, therefore, protects labor�by which our population doubles every twenty years�by which starvation is unknown, and abundance crowns the land�by which order is preserved by unpaid police, and the most fertile regions of the world, where the white man cannot labor, are brought into usefulness by the labor of the African..."

 

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Publius1787: Nothing but a parrot of neo-confederate bloggers and the idiot Paleocon and Southern Nationalist Thomas DiLorenzo.

Absurd revisionism. No one takes that crap seriously. You will never be convinced.

I write now for only for the other readers. You are obviously too thick to even intelligently converse.