Civil War and some Myths.

[RetiredGySgt]

Five myths about why the South seceded - The Washington Post

First up State's rights.

 

[waltky]

Test yer knowledge of the Civil War...

Civil War anniversary: 13 questions 150 years later
On April 12, 1861, long-simmering tensions between North and South ignited and began the four-year War Between the States. In a recent Pew Research Center survey, more than half of Americans said that the Civil War is still relevant to US politics. Test your knowledge of the Civil War by taking this short quiz.

1. Where did the Civil War begin?

 

[Sallow]

Good article.

 

[editec]

Agreed, this article does much to refute the revisionist apologists of the CSA.

The MOTIVE behind the war was the defence of Southern economics.

Its economic capital was mostly in the form of slaves. I've read estimates that 85% of the capitalization of the ENTIRE SOUTH was slaves. That means the the rest of the southern states, every house, all the land the livestock, the cash on hand, the factories amounted to 15% of the capital of those states.

Given that, one can truly understand why the Southerners were scared to death of emancipation that they KNEW was inevitably coming.

I think the South took its best shot because they understood that THEN was the time, IF EVER.

And they lost mostly because they couldn't finace their war once the North blockaded New Orleans.

Seriously, had the found financing in the European bonds market, they might have been able to keep enough troops in the field long enough that the people of the North would have lost heart and given them their freedom.


They fought a magnificent war against the North, but in the long run they just couldn't finance the war and eventually, as their economy collapsed, so too did their chance of becoming an independent nation.

 

[martybegan]

The last 2 points are the best ones. I know that the whole "states rights" arguement as well as the tarriff issue have been used by kluckers to hide the slavery issue, but they still were part of the equation used by the southern states when determining if they would secede. The Election of Lincoln and the threat they percieved to slavery was what broke the camels back for the first wave of secession, and the proposed use of force to restore the union brought on the second.

Even if the states rights argument wasnt the main argument some of the southerners during the time sure as hell believed it was. Read up on some of the stuff the confederate government had to deal with. When state representatives didnt like something they hid behind the state's rights banner, which was one of the inefficencies they confederate government faced.

It has been said (and I agree) that without slavery all of the other issues could have been settled through negotiation. Slavery was the poison pill that brought the conflict to an armed one.

Edit: Also, minus points for the partisan hack on GWB and tax cuts, linking them to slavery. Poor Form.

 

[martybegan]

Agreed, this article does much to refute the revisionist apologists of the CSA.

The MOTIVE behind the war was the defence of Southern economics.

Its economic capital was mostly in the form of slaves. I've read estimates that 85% of the capitalization of the ENTIRE SOUTH was slaves. That means the the rest of the southern states, every house, all the land the livestock, the cash on hand, the factories amounted to 15% of the capital of those states.

Given that, one can truly understand why the Southerners were scared to death of emancipation that they KNEW was inevitably coming.

I think the South took its best shot because they understood that THEN was the time, IF EVER.

And they lost mostly because they couldn't finace their war once the North blockaded New Orleans.

Seriously, had the found financing in the European bonds market, they might have been able to keep enough troops in the field long enough that the people of the North would have lost heart and given them their freedom.


They fought a magnificent war against the North, but in the long run they just couldn't finance the war and eventually, as their economy collapsed, so too did their chance of becoming an independent nation.

Shelby Foote brought up a good point that the North really didnt fully mobilize for the war, unlike the south. His view is that the north fought the war with one hand tied behind thier back, and if pressed early on, would have simply untied the other hand and wiped the south out.

Or as Sherman said:

"You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail."

 

[Sunni Man]

States Rights were defined and built into the Constitution.

The southern states had every right to leave the Union and become independent.

Lincoln ignored the Constitution and fought an illegal was war against the south.

His actions have lead to the oppressive Federal government that we have today.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

States Rights were defined and built into the Constitution.

The southern states had every right to leave the Union and become independent.

Lincoln ignored the Constitution and fought an illegal was war against the south.

His actions have lead to the oppressive Federal government that we have today.

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it. And as to LAW the Supreme Court ruled and it has not been overturned, changed or amended that CONGRESS must establish the rules under which a State may leave the Union.

The Civil war was not Unconstitutional nor illegal.

 

[martybegan]

Test yer knowledge of the Civil War...

Civil War anniversary: 13 questions 150 years later
On April 12, 1861, long-simmering tensions between North and South ignited and began the four-year War Between the States. In a recent Pew Research Center survey, more than half of Americans said that the Civil War is still relevant to US politics. Test your knowledge of the Civil War by taking this short quiz.

1. Where did the Civil War begin?

13/13, even got the two tricky ones (brady and the % of people who think its ok to praise confederate leaders)

 

[martybegan]

States Rights were defined and built into the Constitution.

The southern states had every right to leave the Union and become independent.

Lincoln ignored the Constitution and fought an illegal was war against the south.

His actions have lead to the oppressive Federal government that we have today.

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it. And as to LAW the Supreme Court ruled and it has not been overturned, changed or amended that CONGRESS must establish the rules under which a State may leave the Union.

The Civil war was not Unconstitutional nor illegal.

The Consitution is like any contract, and as such, unless stated otherwise requires all parties to approve of its dissolusion. The states remaining in the union did not approve of the ending of the contract, and therefore exercised thier rights to keep it in force.

There was no right in the constitution to seccession.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Test yer knowledge of the Civil War...

Civil War anniversary: 13 questions 150 years later
On April 12, 1861, long-simmering tensions between North and South ignited and began the four-year War Between the States. In a recent Pew Research Center survey, more than half of Americans said that the Civil War is still relevant to US politics. Test your knowledge of the Civil War by taking this short quiz.

1. Where did the Civil War begin?

Got all but the last question right.

 

[Sunni Man]

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it.

You "assume" too much.

The southern states were following the Constitution.

Lincoln and the Union trashed it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it.

You "assume" too much.

The southern states were following the Constitution.

Lincoln and the Union trashed it.

History AND the Supreme Court disagree.

 

[Sunni Man]

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it.

You "assume" too much.

The southern states were following the Constitution.

Lincoln and the Union trashed it.

History AND the Supreme Court disagree.

What year was this Supreme Court law you keep referring to enacted?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You "assume" too much.

The southern states were following the Constitution.

Lincoln and the Union trashed it.

History AND the Supreme Court disagree.

What year was this Supreme Court law you keep referring to enacted?

1869. Texas vs the US as I recall.

 

[Sunni Man]

History AND the Supreme Court disagree.

What year was this Supreme Court law you keep referring to enacted?

1869. Texas vs the US as I recall.

Kind of what I figured.

It was enacted "after" the so called Civil War took place.

 

[martybegan]

It required a 75 percent vote to create the Union and it is reasonable to assume that it requires a 75 percent vote to leave it.

You "assume" too much.

The southern states were following the Constitution.

Lincoln and the Union trashed it.

Where is the constitution is the word seccession?

 

[Toro]

I've always wondrered what would have happened had the South left successfully. Would there be two separate countries today? What would the continent look like? Would America be as powerful of a global power? It's pretty fascinating.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What year was this Supreme Court law you keep referring to enacted?

1869. Texas vs the US as I recall.

Kind of what I figured.

It was enacted "after" the so called Civil War took place.

There was no Court case BEFORE the Civil War because the pussy ass South knew the result would be they could not leave.

And for Precedent we have the 1830's when South Carolina threatened to leave and President Jackson told them that would be met by force of Arms.

 

[paperview]

1869. Texas vs the US as I recall.

Kind of what I figured.

It was enacted "after" the so called Civil War took place.

There was no Court case BEFORE the Civil War because the pussy ass South knew the result would be they could not leave.

And for Precedent we have the 1830's when South Carolina threatened to leave and President Jackson told them that would be met by force of Arms.

Yup.

Good thread. Thanks.