Churches to GOP: God's plan is not "Exalt the Rich, but Lift the Poor"

[Quantum Windbag]

Has anyone argued otherwise?

Apparently rdean seems to think that when we object to using the government for robbery but instead encourage people to give of themselves voluntarily, we are exalting the rich and putting the poor down. However, his reasoning is clearly lacking.

Apparently Avatar4321 does not understand that his church is committed to social justice and that the government has a role in social justice, too.

Apparently Avatar4321 does not believe in King Benjamin's words in Mosiah 4, because everything Avatar4321 posts contradicts Benjamin's directions. They were not suggestions, Avatar4321, they were a king's theocratic government directions to the members of his kingdom.

Avatar4321 has not read David O. McKay, Hugh B. Brown, N. Eldon Tanner, Gordon B. Hinckley and dozens of LDS leaders who teach opposite to Avatar4321.

The church is not out of step, Avatar4321 is out of step.

Avatar's church is committed to social justice? How do you know that, have you been to it?

BTW, most churches that support social justice are extremely dogmatic and authoritarian. I know you personally support that, but it seems to me that that would conflict with Avatar's personality. He seems to be more of a free spirit type that thinks people should be free to make their own decisions and not have them decreed by a Pope who has forgotten what being a Christian is all about.

 

[sparky]

the church making consseions again?

pleeease....



~S~

 

[rdean]

To you, helping the middle class and the poor is "whoring".

To me, what you do, crawling and kissing the feet of the rich is "whoring".

We just have different views. Since you apparently believe in "mysticism", I would be curious to know the name of your "God". If he were real, I wonder which side he would be on?

First, you shouldn't lie about about QW.

Second, you shouldn't pretend you actually give a damn about the poor. You've already displayed your contempt for those who have less money when you attacked people living in Trailer homes.

Third, you seem completely unable to differentiated between the responsibility to freely give and uplift the poor and the needy and robbing people and giving of their possessions for political power.

Asking how many right wingers on the USMB live in trailers is attacking people who live in trailers? Please explain. I didn't realize that "trailers" were "sacred".

 

[rdean]

Tell me something, why would a person that does not believe in mysticism quote someone who does to make a point? Is it because you have no principles and will whore yourself out to anyone to score political points? Come to think of it, that sounds a bit like someone else who was in the news recently, can you tell me who it was?

What does this have to do with the fact there is a significant dissonance between Christian dogma and conservative political dogma.

The only dissonance exists for those who somehow think that it's Christian doctrine to rob others to help the poor rather than to give voluntarily.

I would recommend learning what Christ teaches. The Gospel is a great place to start. You will soon learn that Christ at no time advocates forcibly removing wealth from one group of people to give to another. In fact, the most important part of Christianity is the willingness to serve God and men without the use of force. The one who likes to force people to do things isn't God, it's the other side.

Ahhh, Christ "teaches", but Republicans "give".

So I was right. "Education" is better than "charity".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All the sudden Rdean is arguing that the church is right on something? Aren't churches the epitome of stupidity, superstition and backwardness? Don't church folks have so much trouble thinking clearly that they can't tie their shoes without assistance? Why all the sudden this respect for the opinions of a church?

It is refreshing to see that Rdean recognizes that churches do have the right of something once in a while. Maybe 6% of the time, but still it is good to get an acknowledgement.

I have always believed the heart and soul of a country is how that country takes care of the middle class and the poor. I have made that clear in my posts over and over again.

I also believe that charity does no good. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. I have posted this many times.

That's my position on education.

It's the right wing who wants to screw the elderly and the middle class. How many threads have I started where I asked the right wing what they are doing to support the American Middle Class. Time and again, right wingers say "screw the lazy bastards" in one form or another.

I'm not agreeing with those church leaders. They are agreeing with me.

"I also believe that charity does no good"

So we should end wasteful, taxpayer funded welfare programs today?

 

[rdean]

You are lying again you fucker. Obama did not kill the space program. He expanded it.

Nice deflection though. You are one of the Republicans who want to screw the middle class? Seems that way.

Last time I checked the definition of expand, it didn't involve pulling back resources for space travel.

New private space plane has NASA roots - Technology & science - Space - Space.com - msnbc.com

For 30 years, NASA astronauts have worked in low-Earth orbit, flying on the space shuttles and building the International Space Station. Now that the station is complete and the shuttle program is winding down, the United States is focusing on sending astronauts farther out in the solar system than ever before.

NASA's next big goals for human spaceflight, as articulated by President Barack Obama, are visiting an asteroid by the year 2025 and landing on Mars in the 2030s.

For Visits to Asteroid & Mars, NASA Needs New Ways to Do Everything | Space.com

I don't understand why you guys are such filthy liars. What is it you gain from that? Besides, what is the likelihood of Republicans even being involved? It's not as if they respect science or education. Maybe they could just "pray" their way into space?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Good question. I would love to hear the answer.

Anyone?

The answer is rather simple, Republicans are a coalition. Unlike Democrats, they often disagree about the best way to accomplish their goals, and never vote in lock step.

Didn't really answer the question. In fact, it demonstrates a remarkable departure from reality. Up until recently Republicans did vote in lock step. Now the party is split. Democrats, often disagree. They were up in arms over Obama proposing cutting social programs just here recently.

None of which has anything to do with "the significant dissonance between Christian dogma and conservative political dogma".

What part of Christian dogma conflicts with conservative political dogma?
Be specific.

 

[CitizenPained]

How much do rich actually give, anyway? I just now found part-time employment after months of searching and my charitable contributions are still flowing when I can - maybe I gave $25 to the Federation or food pantry, or bought a homeless man breakfast, or volunteered at the nursing home or in my son's school, but damn. Is it only the middle class that is sympathetic?

 

[rdean]

How much do rich actually give, anyway? I just now found part-time employment after months of searching and my charitable contributions are still flowing when I can - maybe I gave $25 to the Federation or food pantry, or bought a homeless man breakfast, or volunteered at the nursing home or in my son's school, but damn. Is it only the middle class that is sympathetic?

The rich give too. And in some good ways. There is the conservative Walter Annenberg Foundation that has given tens of millions to create educational opportunities for under privileged Americans. Obama was on it's board of directors while living in Chicago. The Annenberg's were very close friends with the Reagans, which probably explains some of the respect Obama has for Ronald Reagan.

Then of course, there is the foundation being build by Bill Gates and handled by his parents.

The National Endowment for the Arts and their grants programs.

These types of programs, as well as scholarships and grants do way more for people than given them cans of creamed corn and government cheese. I'm not saying charity is bad, but come on, Republicans go on and on about the worthless and lazy poor. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. That's how I see things.

 

[CitizenPained]

Hey, man, it takes a village.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

“The president basically endorsed our concern for protecting the poor as we work on balancing the budget,” Galen Carey, vice president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said after the meeting.

The Rev. David Beckmann, president of the anti-hunger organization Bread for the World, supported the administration’s efforts to negotiate a budget that calls for spending cuts and revenue increases.

“We applaud the president for acknowledging that any budget deal must protect programs vital for hungry and poor people,” he said in a statement.

I really like the topic of this thread.

Only 21st Century Tea Party people seem to think that the lessons of caring for fellow humans given in the Bible only applied in earlier times, and that now being selfish and warlike is a 21st century virtue.

You have no idea what the Bible actually teaches, if you did you would understand why people think that the government should not be involved in church matters.

Come to think of it, why do you think it is a good idea?

 

[CitizenPained]

but I'm talking about the average upper-doodle types, not the zillionaires who'd look like dicks if they didn't have a foundation in their name.

 

[Trajan]

“The president basically endorsed our concern for protecting the poor as we work on balancing the budget,” Galen Carey, vice president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said after the meeting.

The Rev. David Beckmann, president of the anti-hunger organization Bread for the World, supported the administration’s efforts to negotiate a budget that calls for spending cuts and revenue increases.

“We applaud the president for acknowledging that any budget deal must protect programs vital for hungry and poor people,” he said in a statement.

Churches Press Obama to Protect Poor in Budget Talks on EthicsDaily.com

Inspired by a common spiritual conviction that God has called on all Americans to protect the vulnerable and promote the dignity of all individuals living in society, the faith community has worked along the United States government for decades to protect those struggling to overcome poverty in the U.S. and abroad. Without a sustained federal commitment to these programs, the interfaith leaders fear that their Houses of Worship will be unable to solely support the country’s most vulnerable in their time of need.

Among those who were arrested include Jim Winkler, General Secretary, General Board of Church and Society, United Methodist Church; Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Shalom Center in Philadelphia; Rev. Jennifer Butler, Executive Director, Faith in Public Life; Rev. Paul Sherry, Director of the Washington Office, Interfaith Worker Justice; Rev. Dr. J. Herbert Nelson, Director of Public Witness, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.); Rev. Michael Livingston, Past President, National Council of the Churches of Christ (USA); Sandy Sorenson, Director of Washington Office, United Church of Christ; Martin Shupack, Director of Advocacy, Church World Service; Jordan Blevins, Director of Peace Witness Ministries, Church of the Brethren; and Rev. Dr. Bob Edgar, President of Common Cause.

Faith Leaders Arrested In Capitol Hill Protest To Protect The Poor

On Wednesday, faith leaders met with President Obama to pray, read scriptures and urge him to protect the poor. Before meeting the president, the leaders met with Republican Rep. Paul Ryan. They are now setting their sights on sit-downs with House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell.

"We are not among those who want to kick the can down the road," said Galen Carey, vice president of Government Relations for the National Association of Evangelicals.

Carey and members of the faith coalition Circle of Protection believe the budget is a moral issue that they must address now rather than later.

Christian Leaders Lobby Obama, Congress for the Poor, Christian News

What Would Jesus Cut? Christian Leaders Say Protect the Poor

Republicans Reverse 26-Year Old Budget Precedent to Protect the Poor

July 28, 2011
As we reported earlier today, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops as well as local Catholic leaders have criticized Speaker John Boehner for his proposed debt-reduction plan, which would "make tax cuts for the wealthy our most sacred national priority" instead of protecting the most vulnerable members of society.

Faith in Public Life

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't even have supernatural beliefs, but I still know what's right. These aren't "crazy wacko left wingers". These are "religious leaders", many of them Republicans and conservatives.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever.

 

[rdean]

“The president basically endorsed our concern for protecting the poor as we work on balancing the budget,” Galen Carey, vice president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said after the meeting.

The Rev. David Beckmann, president of the anti-hunger organization Bread for the World, supported the administration’s efforts to negotiate a budget that calls for spending cuts and revenue increases.

“We applaud the president for acknowledging that any budget deal must protect programs vital for hungry and poor people,” he said in a statement.

Churches Press Obama to Protect Poor in Budget Talks on EthicsDaily.com

Inspired by a common spiritual conviction that God has called on all Americans to protect the vulnerable and promote the dignity of all individuals living in society, the faith community has worked along the United States government for decades to protect those struggling to overcome poverty in the U.S. and abroad. Without a sustained federal commitment to these programs, the interfaith leaders fear that their Houses of Worship will be unable to solely support the country’s most vulnerable in their time of need.

Among those who were arrested include Jim Winkler, General Secretary, General Board of Church and Society, United Methodist Church; Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Shalom Center in Philadelphia; Rev. Jennifer Butler, Executive Director, Faith in Public Life; Rev. Paul Sherry, Director of the Washington Office, Interfaith Worker Justice; Rev. Dr. J. Herbert Nelson, Director of Public Witness, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.); Rev. Michael Livingston, Past President, National Council of the Churches of Christ (USA); Sandy Sorenson, Director of Washington Office, United Church of Christ; Martin Shupack, Director of Advocacy, Church World Service; Jordan Blevins, Director of Peace Witness Ministries, Church of the Brethren; and Rev. Dr. Bob Edgar, President of Common Cause.

Faith Leaders Arrested In Capitol Hill Protest To Protect The Poor

On Wednesday, faith leaders met with President Obama to pray, read scriptures and urge him to protect the poor. Before meeting the president, the leaders met with Republican Rep. Paul Ryan. They are now setting their sights on sit-downs with House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell.

"We are not among those who want to kick the can down the road," said Galen Carey, vice president of Government Relations for the National Association of Evangelicals.

Carey and members of the faith coalition Circle of Protection believe the budget is a moral issue that they must address now rather than later.

Christian Leaders Lobby Obama, Congress for the Poor, Christian News

What Would Jesus Cut? Christian Leaders Say Protect the Poor

Republicans Reverse 26-Year Old Budget Precedent to Protect the Poor

July 28, 2011
As we reported earlier today, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops as well as local Catholic leaders have criticized Speaker John Boehner for his proposed debt-reduction plan, which would "make tax cuts for the wealthy our most sacred national priority" instead of protecting the most vulnerable members of society.

Faith in Public Life

-------------------------------------------------------

I don't even have supernatural beliefs, but I still know what's right. These aren't "crazy wacko left wingers". These are "religious leaders", many of them Republicans and conservatives.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever.

I've been saying that for years. Some think it's in the Bible, but it's actually a Chinese proverb and a brilliant one at that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I doubt that Tea Party hatred of the poor is godly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I doubt that Tea Party hatred of the poor is godly.

I doubt that you would know godly if it kicked you in the balls.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Said with a godly tone.

Where the TeaBots abuse the poor, the bots are children of the devil.

 

[whitehall]

Dean's neo-socialist anti-Christian crusade never ends does it? While the left is sledge hammering Christian symbols off court house walls and dynamiting Korean War monuments they use made up slogans like "exalt the rich but lift the poor". Todays radical left makes nazi propaganda look like childs play.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one is worried about the atheist left, all 2% of them. If we, the 75% who are Christian can't handle the 2% wack left in a Christian way, we have problems. Many Canadian, French, Dutch, English, Australian,New Zealand, etc., Christians are socialists. The religion and the politics are not exclusive, Whitehall. If you need a primer, begin with Acts 2.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar's church is committed to social justice? How do you know that, have you been to it?

BTW, most churches that support social justice are extremely dogmatic and authoritarian. I know you personally support that, but it seems to me that that would conflict with Avatar's personality. He seems to be more of a free spirit type that thinks people should be free to make their own decisions and not have them decreed by a Pope who has forgotten what being a Christian is all about.

You have to understand to premises Jake is using:

1) That social justice isn't communist code language and just means helping the poor. Under that definition, I have no problem with social justice

2) He doesnt see a difference in forcibly taking tax money from the people for the government to redistribute it and with individuals voluntarily lifting the poor with their time, skills, and money. The first, the Church has spoken clearly out against it. The Second, the Church (and I) completely support.

God wants us to serve Him and our fellow men voluntarily. Not by force or compulsion. and He wants us to do it, not outsource our charity to others. True Charity will edify both the giver and the reciever. Which compelled giving doesnt do either.

God also speaks out agressively about robbers in government.