Zone1 Christian Proselytizing

[BreezeWood]

Your remark about Catholic priests...was that respectful, or was it more a derisive comment? You decide.

you are a blind bat ...

christianity from the beginning has been a corrupt organization - persecution and victimization of the innocent has been made possible by the congregations made up of people just like - meriweather.

- and they are shocked the celibacy they have endorsed for centuries came to lite when everyone knew better. among the other know corruptions they hide behind as their false 10 commandments and phony sacraments.

 

[Meriweather]

No, because I would say the same thing about ANY human being. Not just priests

What I found funny was a listing of all the verses about preaching the Gospel (which is what priests and ANY human being does) and then verges off to advising not to listen.

And this because I responded to a post where Jesus said to make disciples of all nations, which I believe goes far beyond knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets and calling it good. Making disciples (in Jesus' time) was making students of the Gospel and of salvation. One way of teaching through example...discerning the will of God and following it--which is loving God and loving one's fellowman. You called this "fake news."

Did you note the posts where people said they politely accept the pamphlet and throw it out at the first opportunity? How about the posts where people said they are annoyed by those knocking at their door?

 

[buttercup]

What I found funny was a listing of all the verses about preaching the Gospel (which is what priests and ANY human being does) and then verges off to advising not to listen.

That's a flat out lie. Nowhere did I say, think or imply that people should not listen to the Gospel. How you extrapolated that out of anything I've said is beyond me.

And this because I responded to a post where Jesus said to make disciples of all nations, which I believe goes far beyond knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets and calling it good. Making disciples (in Jesus' time) was making students of the Gospel and of salvation. One way of teaching through example...discerning the will of God and following it--which is loving God and loving one's fellowman. You called this "fake news."

Strawmen galore. Of course it goes beyond knocking on doors and handing out pamphlets! In fact, I don't even advocate that form of evangelism, so where on earth are you getting this from? Where did I ever say that people should knock on doors and hand out pamplets? I never did.

So that's twice that you put words in my mouth and misrepresented my position.

If you're not sure about my position, just ask. But if you continue to put words in my mouth, I'll have to conclude that you don't care about truth or honesty, and if that's the case I don't want to continue posting to you anymore.

And no, I did not call loving God and one's fellowman fake news. Obviously that is the most important command. So now we're on three things you've put in my mouth that I did not say.

My fake news emoji was in regard to your entire dismissive position on salvation, and your original comment "Converting is kind of a distraction."

Did you note the posts where people said they politely accept the pamphlet and throw it out at the first opportunity? How about the posts where people said they are annoyed by those knocking at their door?

I don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else. I never talked about going door to door or handing out pamplets. Those are YOUR words, not mine. I was involved for many years with an international missions organization, and never once did we hand out pamplets or do the door to door thing that you keep bringing up.

So to sum this up, your entire post was nothing but strawmen, false assumptions and putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that again, or I will have to make the decision to not post to you anymore. I don't put anyone on ignore (and I don't plan to start using the ignore feature) but one of my pet peeves is when people put words in my mouth. Not cool.

 

[Meriweather]

So to sum this up

To sum this up, I've been here the entire thread and know its background. If you can't see the humor in your morning post, there is really nothing to say. I was simply following the etymology of discipleship; still not clear on why that is so upsetting.

 

[buttercup]

To sum this up, I've been here the entire thread and know its background. If you can't see the humor in your morning post, there is really nothing to say. I was simply following the etymology of discipleship; still not clear on why that is so upsetting.

I'm not upset by your beliefs. Again, the only thing that slightly irked me is that your posts have been filled with strawmen and false assumptions about me and others.

But since you seem to want to talk about this....ok. Earlier on the thread you seemed to be saying that the non-Catholic view of evangelism is wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your implication seemed to be that Christians are not called to share the Gospel in order that people would repent and get saved, but to make "students", in order to teach them God's commands, etc.

While it's true, of course, that we are to make disciples, (no one denied that) what you seemed to be skipping over is what has to come first.

In the Matthew scripture that you were arguing with people about, what you seemed to gloss over is that before one can become a disciple, they have to first believe and come to Christ. In other words, salvation is essential.

If the ONLY scripture we had on evangelism was that Matthew scripture, then you might have a stronger case, but that's precisely why I posted all those other scriptures, because those others ones make it much more clear. It's not just about making "students".... as if Christianity was a mere intellectual matter.... but about sharing the Gospel so that people would repent and receive the gift of salvation and new life.

Sure, you can try to make "students" out of nonbelievers, but that's not going to get very far, because it's putting the cart before the horse. Someone who doesn't yet believe and has not surrendered to God is not going to be able to be a true "disciple" of Jesus, because it's salvation / spiritual birth that enables people to learn and obey God and begin to live their life for Jesus.

So, no, we are not called to ONLY make students out of people. We are called to share the Gospel, the good news of Jesus far and wide, to the ends of the earth... and discipleship comes next, because obviously once we come to God, we don't want to stop there, we want to learn, grow, and continue on in the journey with God. But it starts with spiritual birth.

 

[Meriweather]

your posts have been filled with strawmen

Show me a "strawman". A general labeling of "strawman" or "fake news" with no explanation does not tell me what your reality is.

 

[buttercup]

Show me a "strawman". A general labeling of "strawman" or "fake news" with no explanation does not tell me what your reality is.

Post #82 is an example of a post filled with strawmen.

First you implied that I advised people to not listen to the Gospel. (If that's not what you meant, then I hope next time you make yourself more clear, because that's how it sounded)

Then you seemed to assume that my idea of evangelism is handing out pamphlets and going door to door. When I never once said that.

But anyway, I'm not interested in nitpicking our discussion here, so.... if you want to reply to my previous post, then that's great, but I don't want to take any more time in what is feeling a lot like mere bickering.

 

[Meriweather]

But since you seem to want to talk about this....ok. Earlier on the thread you seemed to be saying that the non-Catholic view of evangelism is wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your implication seemed to be that Christians are not called to share the Gospel in order that people would repent and get saved, but to make "students", in order to teach them God's commands, etc.

Inventing what someone "seems to be saying" isn't responding to what they actually said. I did not say, I did not imply the non-Catholic view of evangelism is wrong. I merely presented the etymology of the word and what it meant in Jesus' day. Jesus gathered disciples and he taught them.

True the non-Catholic Christian view of "get saved" is different from my understanding. Catholic understanding is that Christ's life, death, and resurrection redeemed the world--everyone in the world and opened up the way of salvation to everyone.

What was the cornerstone before Christ? The Law. Christ's cornerstone is salvation, the way of salvation that he taught. Somehow, you are picturing students learning God's commands. That's the previous cornerstone. Christ's way of salvation I outlined in a previous post that you labeled as "Fake News."

Think about it. Did Jesus teach his disciples God's commands or did he teach salvation? Shouldn't we teach his Gospel/Good News? And doesn't teaching involve the example of living his Way?

 

[Meriweather]

In the Matthew scripture that you were arguing with people about, what you seemed to gloss over is that before one can become a disciple, they have to first believe and come to Christ. In other words, salvation is essential.

Makes sense. Jesus did not tell those who held no belief in him to make disciples. Think about it. One cannot teach math until they first are taught/learn math. Jesus wanted those who already followed his teachings to teach his Gospel/Good News of salvation.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure, you can try to make "students" out of nonbelievers,

I said nothing of making students out of nonbelievers--and neither did Christ. He called for disciples/students in all nations which means teachers are needed in all nations--not just in a single, small country.

 

[Meriweather]

Post #82 is an example of a post filled with strawmen.

First you implied that I advised people to not listen to the Gospel. (If that's not what you meant, then I hope next time you make yourself more clear, because that's how it sounded)

First, I imply nothing. You infer something out of what I did not say. I was clear. You listed verse after verse about preaching Christ's message and then you say, don't listen to priests. Priests are people who spend their days,nights, and lives preaching Christ's Gospel message. Every day, not just on Sundays. So....if (as you said) we are not to listen to a priest and/or humans who both proclaims and teach Christ's Gospel, what do you suggest?

 

[Meriweather]

Then you seemed to assume that my idea of evangelism is handing out pamphlets and going door to door. When I never once said that.

I assumed nothing of the sort--other than assuming you weren't part of the discussion where handing out pamphlets and knocking on doors were being discussed. That's where I was discussing the etymology of discipleship.

 

[buttercup]

I'm not sure why you are replying in 5 separate posts, to my one post. (Off topic, but just let you know... if you don't want to deal with the shortcode, when you have the post in "visual mode", you can just click enter and it will break apart the post into different sections, without having to deal with writing the code.)

And I want to reply, but honestly I can't be here all day replying to 5 or 6 different posts. I've already neglected a few things i have to do today, so I need to sign off of here for now. I'll try to reply later, maybe tonight.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not sure why you are replying in 5 separate posts, to my one post. (Off topic, but just let you know... if you don't want to deal with the shortcode, when you have the post in "visual mode", you can just click enter and it will break apart the post into different sections, without having to deal with writing the code.)

I know both. I use each for different purposes.