Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

From the dust is not how, it's a partial list of contents. We all are all primarily comprised the dust of the ground and water. Why wouldn't the animals have been able to do it? Don't animals have babies too?
The dust is the only thing mentioned in the Lord's word when man was created.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly

P.S. Yes, animals have babies too, but what do you mean by "Why wouldn't the animals have been able to do it?" Do what?

I would have assume a nurturing animal who was already nursing, could in fact nurse a baby.
 
I have explained, in detail, and through multiple posts, the difference between baking a cake, and having someone buy it, and writing a special sentiment on it. I can even prove to you that you don't believe the retarded crap that the baker is not responsible for the words they put on a cake if you want me to.

Would you like me to prove to you that you are a lying sack of shit?

Why would I want you to prove that I believe the baker is responsible for the words they put on a cake, when clearly I do not believe the baker is responsible for the words they would have had to put on the cake for this wedding? I believe there may be some culpability of the baker if the message is non-fictional hate speech, but I'm not sure on the letter of the law wrt. calligraphers who do work for someone that has authored hate speech.

If you truly believed that artists were not responsible for their words that would apply even if those words are non fictional hate speech. Since it doesn't, you are just what I said you are, a lying sack of shit.

I don't think "their" means what you think it means.
 
From the dust is not how, it's a partial list of contents. We all are all primarily comprised the dust of the ground and water. Why wouldn't the animals have been able to do it? Don't animals have babies too?
The dust is the only thing mentioned in the Lord's word when man was created.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly

P.S. Yes, animals have babies too, but what do you mean by "Why wouldn't the animals have been able to do it?" Do what?
I would have assume a nurturing animal who was already nursing, could in fact nurse a baby.
Sure, but the Lord provided what Adam needed and obviously one thing that he needed was a woman.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly
 
Why would I want you to prove that I believe the baker is responsible for the words they put on a cake, when clearly I do not believe the baker is responsible for the words they would have had to put on the cake for this wedding? I believe there may be some culpability of the baker if the message is non-fictional hate speech, but I'm not sure on the letter of the law wrt. calligraphers who do work for someone that has authored hate speech.

If you truly believed that artists were not responsible for their words that would apply even if those words are non fictional hate speech. Since it doesn't, you are just what I said you are, a lying sack of shit.

I don't think "their" means what you think it means.

You are still a lying sack of shit.
 
Why would I want you to prove that I believe the baker is responsible for the words they put on a cake, when clearly I do not believe the baker is responsible for the words they would have had to put on the cake for this wedding? I believe there may be some culpability of the baker if the message is non-fictional hate speech, but I'm not sure on the letter of the law wrt. calligraphers who do work for someone that has authored hate speech.

If you truly believed that artists were not responsible for their words that would apply even if those words are non fictional hate speech. Since it doesn't, you are just what I said you are, a lying sack of shit.

I don't think "their" means what you think it means.

I don't think "tolerance", "bigotry", and "inequality" mean what you think they mean. I suggest you try putting the shoe on the other foot.
 
I have a hard time with this. I've not only read both books, I've read both many times.

Love the sinner not the sin. I'm testy on this. Why should any Christian deny two people who want to join in love a cake.

Come on.

Why would any good christian want to hurt these people?
I don't know about everyone else on the planet, but I never mean to hurt other people. To me, its about following the rules that the Lord has for us and only the Lord can tell us why same gender relationships are unacceptable to him.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly

And where in the Bible does God tell you to go and mistreat people who you think their gender relationships are unacceptable to him?

God's rules are to "love" everyone like you love yourself - so tell me how being telling yourself that you are an abomination to God is a way to love yourself?
 
^^^ Sharing the Lord's word with others is not a way of mistreating other people. It is letting them know how things are from his perspective. Parents are to love their kids, but that does not mean that they will never teach them anything...or punish them when they have done wrong.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly
 
Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop - Washington Times

A year ago I would have said 'good.' But actually seeing that it happened, - I don't like how this feels. They shouldn't have been treated as they have been treated, not in my estimation.

Some of those threats were shocking. One emailer wished for the couple’s children to fall ill. Another expressed hope that Mr. Klein should be shot and even raped, The Blaze reported.

And yet another wrote: “Here’s hoping you go out of business, you bigot.”
The couple said on top of that, their vendors were “badgered and harassed” into stopping all associations with the bakery.

The Kleins say they’re now closing up their doors and moving their operations to their home. Their business, they say, has suffered a serious revenue hit from the unexpected activism and backlash.

Looks like they need a Chik-Fil-A-type support system.

This is a taste is a taste what progressivism will bring. Facism

No, conservatism is the what brings Facism, if left unchecked.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt Quotes

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
14 Points of Fascism
 
^^^ Sharing the Lord's word with others is not a way of mistreating other people.

There is a time and a place to do that. Telling people they are an abomination to the Lord is not sharing God's word, it is using it to make people feel inferior.

It is letting them know how things are from his perspective.
Bakers are not in business to preach the word, they are in business to bake. I'm sure this couple was aware of Oregon's law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and chose to go against it.

Parents are to love their kids, but that does not mean that they will never teach them anything...or punish them when they have done wrong.
The bakers are not the lesbian's parents and it is not their duty to teach anybody anything. And justly so, the bakers have been punished because what they did was wrong.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)Holly
I am blessed, thank you. And, I don't impose my beliefs on others, especially when they don't ask me to. What these bakers should have done is bake the cake and pray for the couple, if they really were concerned about the condition of the heart of the LGBT couple. It is apparent that they have misunderstood their position as Christians and as Bakers.
 
Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop - Washington Times

A year ago I would have said 'good.' But actually seeing that it happened, - I don't like how this feels. They shouldn't have been treated as they have been treated, not in my estimation.



Looks like they need a Chik-Fil-A-type support system.

This is a taste is a taste what progressivism will bring. Facism

No, conservatism is the what brings Facism, if left unchecked.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt Quotes

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
14 Points of Fascism

Government abuse always comes from the government.

Let me repeat that, ALWAYS.
 
^^^ Sharing the Lord's word with others is not a way of mistreating other people.

There is a time and a place to do that. Telling people they are an abomination to the Lord is not sharing God's word, it is using it to make people feel inferior.

It is letting them know how things are from his perspective.
Bakers are not in business to preach the word, they are in business to bake. I'm sure this couple was aware of Oregon's law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and chose to go against it.

Parents are to love their kids, but that does not mean that they will never teach them anything...or punish them when they have done wrong.
The bakers are not the lesbian's parents and it is not their duty to teach anybody anything. And justly so, the bakers have been punished because what they did was wrong.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)Holly
I am blessed, thank you. And, I don't impose my beliefs on others, especially when they don't ask me to. What these bakers should have done is bake the cake and pray for the couple, if they really were concerned about the condition of the heart of the LGBT couple. It is apparent that they have misunderstood their position as Christians and as Bakers.
The people themselves may not be an abomination, but their actions are and "abomination" is the term that is used in the Lord's word and them bakers can do whatever they want with their business because it is their business which gives them the right to refuse service to whoever they want and no they are not the couple's parents, but that does not stop them from having the right to share what they believe with other people. Also those who want to share what they believe don't have to wait until they are asked to. They have a right to take some initiative which leads me to say that I don't believe that they misunderstood their positions as Christians because I believe that sharing the Lord's word with others is what the Lord wants done with his word in the first place. :) :) :)

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly
 
This is a taste is a taste what progressivism will bring. Facism

No, conservatism is the what brings Facism, if left unchecked.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt Quotes

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
14 Points of Fascism

Government abuse always comes from the government.

Let me repeat that, ALWAYS.

Duh?

And your point?
 
...then the lord said, "Let there be a computer mouse", and behold, it was good. And the people who were wailing and rending their garmets because of the ravings of false prophets clicked on their mouses. and Holly disappeared.

And it was good.

{Click}
 
No, conservatism is the what brings Facism, if left unchecked.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of Government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt Quotes

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
14 Points of Fascism

Government abuse always comes from the government.

Let me repeat that, ALWAYS.

Duh?

And your point?

The only way private power becomes stronger than government is if you are a delusional conspiracy nit that doesn't understand politics.
 
^^^ Sharing the Lord's word with others is not a way of mistreating other people.

There is a time and a place to do that. Telling people they are an abomination to the Lord is not sharing God's word, it is using it to make people feel inferior.

Bakers are not in business to preach the word, they are in business to bake. I'm sure this couple was aware of Oregon's law that prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and chose to go against it.


The bakers are not the lesbian's parents and it is not their duty to teach anybody anything. And justly so, the bakers have been punished because what they did was wrong.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)Holly
I am blessed, thank you. And, I don't impose my beliefs on others, especially when they don't ask me to. What these bakers should have done is bake the cake and pray for the couple, if they really were concerned about the condition of the heart of the LGBT couple. It is apparent that they have misunderstood their position as Christians and as Bakers.
The people themselves may not be an abomination, but their actions are and "abomination" is the term that is used in the Lord's word and them bakers can do whatever they want with their business because it is their business which gives them the right to refuse service to whoever they want
Just goes to show that you are not even familiar with the situation. There is a law in Oregon, where these bakers do business, and it says you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation. What part of that do you not understand?

and no they are not the couple's parents, but that does not stop them from having the right to share what they believe with other people.
Are you totally obtuse?
The couple didn't go to them to be preached at, they went to get a cake baked.
Also those who want to share what they believe don't have to wait until they are asked to.
This whole situation didn't develop because the bakers "shared" as you want to call it with the lesbian couple. They refused to service them like they are supposed to, like they service other people.

They have a right to take some initiative which leads me to say that I don't believe that they misunderstood their positions as Christians because I believe that sharing the Lord's word with others is what the Lord wants done with his word in the first place. :) :) :)

Your comments lead me to believe that you are totally unable to grasp the situation. They misunderstood their position as Christians because Jesus doesn't tell his followers to force others to accept their beliefs. And you continue to say "sharing" when they didn't share God's word which is "love" - they shared hatred by telling these people that they are unworthy to God. If that is what your religion teaches you to do, it is obviously not Christian.


God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly

May God bless you with enlightenment, because you seem to be in a delusional cloud.
 
Government abuse always comes from the government.

Let me repeat that, ALWAYS.

Duh?

And your point?

The only way private power becomes stronger than government is if you are a delusional conspiracy nit that doesn't understand politics.

I understand enough to know that the GOP tries ultra hard to provide power to the wealthy. If the wealthy control the government, they are stronger than the government. Perhaps you are the one that does not understand politics.
 
...then the lord said, "Let there be a computer mouse", and behold, it was good. And the people who were wailing and rending their garmets because of the ravings of false prophets clicked on their mouses. and Holly disappeared.

And it was good.

{Click}
May your mouse rest in peace because it has obviously kicked the bucket.

May God bless you with enlightenment, because you seem to be in a delusional cloud.
Right back at you!

God bless you two always!!!

Holly
 
Duh?

And your point?

The only way private power becomes stronger than government is if you are a delusional conspiracy nit that doesn't understand politics.

I understand enough to know that the GOP tries ultra hard to provide power to the wealthy. If the wealthy control the government, they are stronger than the government. Perhaps you are the one that does not understand politics.

Like I said, a conspiracy nit.

If the wealthy controlled the government Microsoft would never have been charged with anti trust violations.
 
A church makes billions of dollars. Its a business. They are in it for a money, a lot of the time. They don't pay taxes either.

Billions of dollars? What the fuck are you talking about? Churches, first of all, do not "make" money. They are charities, and function on donations. By law, they are required to spend nearly all of their income every year on church functions, being allowed to keep only a small percentage of their money on hand as a hedge against emergencies. There is no money for them to be "in it" for.

Way to shoot your mouth off about something you know jack shit about, but just "know" because you've imagined it that way. Naught but what I would expect from you.

The Catholic Church is a billion dollar business.

Jesus, you really have no idea how anything in the world other than your little clamshell burger fryer works, do you?

"The Catholic Church" is not the homogenous, monolithic entity you imagine it to be, at least in a financial sense. Nor is it a business in any sense.

Because the Catholic Church is a religious institution that spans all the continents on the globe, its individual churches and dioceses maintain independent records and are subject to the laws and regulations for non-profits and charities of their localities. Think of it in terms of McDonald's: The Roman Catholic Church issues franchises in its name to the various individual churches and dioceses and charities, which then operate with basic autonomy, but with the requirement that they adhere to company policies, ie. religious doctrine.

The Catholic Church, like every other non-profit in this country, is required to spend most of its annual income - which comes from donations, not from business operations - on the religious and charitable operations listed as its purpose on its legal paperwork. To call it a "business" simply because it is a popular charity for donation is to dismiss the International Red Cross, for example, as a "business" because IT takes in large amounts of donations every year, as well.

Learn the difference between "business" and "non-profit", because I assure you it's NOT in the amount of money involved.
 
The impression I got from the reading was the reason is similar to the reason we are not supposed to eat pork. People who ate pork, and participated in gay and unwed sexual relationships paid the price of not obeying said laws. Thus the laws were a way to convey a reason that was not understood scientifically at the time... it's god will.
All that I can say is that if same gender relationships had been the Lord's intention, a male would not need a female in order to become a parent and vice versa. A woman never would have been made at all period since a man was made first.

God bless you always!!! :) :) :)

Holly

If man was made first... who was his mom? Additionally, if that was the only plan / scheme devised by god, then why are there some beasts that do not require a male/female pair to propagate? Further, why allow for sex on the fly if god only blesses long term marriages between a man and one woman? Still further, why did god permit plural marriages in the old times but now only permits marriage between one man and one woman?

Frigging moron doesn't understand the universe, and thinks the fault is with the universe. :eusa_hand:
 

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