Changing the equation

[Old Rocks]

That is the point of the grid scale batteries. They don't have produce 100% of the time.With the batteries, they are 24/7.,

 

[Old Rocks]

My goodness, we have a real chorus of "Conservatives" saying you can't do that. Yet it is already being done as we post. President Obama has won his bet on renewables. And the most conservative area of the nation is demonstrating that the President was right in his support of renewables.The economies up, unemployment is going down, and we are seeing renewables reducing the cost of energy. President Obama is winning.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I haven't read about a solar plant that produces at 100% capacity on cloudy days or at night

Irrelevant deflection.

When the cost of fossil fuels increases your energy bill increases. The cost of the sun's energy never increases.

When the fossil fuels run out your fossil fuel plant shuts down forever. When the sun rises the next day the solar plant produces energy again.

When a fossil plant is producing energy it is producing pollution. When a renewable plant is producing energy there is no pollution.

Even Utilities have done the math and figured out that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels hence the growth in wind and solar plants nationwide.

 

[IanC]

I read the OP but not the rest so I hope I am not repeating.

no process is 100% efficient. putting energy into a storage system loses useable energy, taking it out again loses more. if both sides are 70% efficient then you lose half, if both are 50% you lose 3/4s.

so while it is attractive to be able to sequester some of the energy that is not immediately needed for power on demand, the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

 

[Derideo_Te]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

 

[gipper]

Advancements in technology is the answer. The problem is government and the big corporate energy monopolies. They will not allow it...unless they can control and profit massively from it.

 

[skookerasbil]

Our own government doesn't concur........looks like solar and wind will show significant growth but barely put a dent in the role of fossil fuels for generating power. A big reason is that population growth to 11 billion by the middle of the century means certainty for the dominance of oil, natural gas and coal.

A First Peek at Our Energy Future Department of Energy

What is ironic and so damn sad is that the government fix is in.......they are too tied to the special interests of the green energy industry to get out of the way and allow innovation but create a REAL alternative. THAT is the reality..........the graphs in the above link prove it with 100% certainty. Anyway.......one look at Germany today and you got the real poop. In a country where support of renewables exceeds any other place in the world, they have moved AWAY from renewables and back to coal and natural gas......in the last two years......because of prices/costs. Bottom line is......renewables will never be able to stand on their own in the marketplace which will continue to make their impact relatively insignificant.


In 2014, the banks control ALL of the markets across the world, including energy. Economic growth dictates they will seek the absolute cheapest form of energy........fossil fuels.

 

[martybegan]

I haven't read about a solar plant that produces at 100% capacity on cloudy days or at night

Irrelevant deflection.

When the cost of fossil fuels increases your energy bill increases. The cost of the sun's energy never increases.

When the fossil fuels run out your fossil fuel plant shuts down forever. When the sun rises the next day the solar plant produces energy again.

When a fossil plant is producing energy it is producing pollution. When a renewable plant is producing energy there is no pollution.

Even Utilities have done the math and figured out that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels hence the growth in wind and solar plants nationwide.

The cost of the sun's energy can and will increase depending on the availability of the materials required to harness said power. Solar and wind use more exotic materials than your traditional fossil fuel run plants.

There is ALWAYS a downside to any form of energy production. Solar plants are land hogs, and wind farms are bird choppers.

Utilities have figured out the math on subsidies, nothing more. get rid of those and why would you want to deal with a power source that has a high front end, and has to be coupled with another source of power for downtime production?

 

[martybegan]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

All the batteries you are talking about are small scale. Making a battery big enough to power a city would be as big as a city.

 

[Geaux4it]

clean energy and the metric system are inevitable

-Geaux

 

[skookerasbil]

All the big banks control the energy markets..........a collusion with world governments. The fix is in....these banks happily pay paltry fines after investigations and continue to ensure the profit margin is such for them to be able to deal in the derivatives market. Prior to 2008, it was epic. Now? Its 10X worse. In the meantime, public policy in energy is nothing but smoke and mirrors to perpetuate the status quo but keep all interest groups thinking they are winning. Of course, everybody is losing.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324170004578637662037547582

 

[skookerasbil]

The energy market is rigged...........

Whistleblower Energy Market Is Rigged - Business Insider

Is EVERY Market Rigged Washington s Blog


Also......the bottom line is, renewables have a long way to go to be able to compete with fossil fuels...........

Renewables still have a long way to go to compete with fossil fuels

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Notice, only the cost of green energy can decline

Weird, no?

 

[Derideo_Te]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

All the batteries you are talking about are small scale. Making a battery big enough to power a city would be as big as a city.

Read and learn!

Battery Energy Storage System for Grid Stabilization AEG Power Solutions

GE Energy Storage Durathon Battery - Energy Power Technologies for Grid Storage

Grid Scale Batteries Large Scale Energy Storage Aquion Energy

Cheap zinc air battery promises beefier power grid - CNET

They are there to stabilize the energy grid. Why would they be building these storage batteries if they weren't cost effective?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The energy market is rigged...........

Whistleblower Energy Market Is Rigged - Business Insider

Is EVERY Market Rigged Washington s Blog


Also......the bottom line is, renewables have a long way to go to be able to compete with fossil fuels...........

Renewables still have a long way to go to compete with fossil fuels

Gosh! You have only now figured out that the Energy Cartel manipulates the prices? Look what they did to California after their secret meeting with VP Cheney in 2001.

Nuclear power has always been heavily subsidized. Take away the subsidy and it cannot compete either. On top of that you have the disposal nightmare.

The solution will always be a mixture of renewables and hopefully green fossil fuels to keep down emissions.

 

[Derideo_Te]

All the big banks control the energy markets..........a collusion with world governments. The fix is in....these banks happily pay paltry fines after investigations and continue to ensure the profit margin is such for them to be able to deal in the derivatives market. Prior to 2008, it was epic. Now? Its 10X worse. In the meantime, public policy in energy is nothing but smoke and mirrors to perpetuate the status quo but keep all interest groups thinking they are winning. Of course, everybody is losing.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324170004578637662037547582

Ironic that the mouthpiece of the Wall Street Casino bosses blows the whistle on one of their own scams. But that only happened because the government regulators caught them eventually.

 

[martybegan]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

All the batteries you are talking about are small scale. Making a battery big enough to power a city would be as big as a city.

Read and learn!

Battery Energy Storage System for Grid Stabilization AEG Power Solutions

GE Energy Storage Durathon Battery - Energy Power Technologies for Grid Storage

Grid Scale Batteries Large Scale Energy Storage Aquion Energy

Cheap zinc air battery promises beefier power grid - CNET

They are there to stabilize the energy grid. Why would they be building these storage batteries if they weren't cost effective?

You like a bunch of sales pitches and call it proof. Where is one of these operating, and without government subsidy?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Nuclear power has been crippled by the EPA and EnviroMarxism. We run our entire Navy on it but left up to the EnviroMarxists we'd be an all wood Navy with sail made from recycled paper

 

[Derideo_Te]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

All the batteries you are talking about are small scale. Making a battery big enough to power a city would be as big as a city.

Read and learn!

Battery Energy Storage System for Grid Stabilization AEG Power Solutions

GE Energy Storage Durathon Battery - Energy Power Technologies for Grid Storage

Grid Scale Batteries Large Scale Energy Storage Aquion Energy

Cheap zinc air battery promises beefier power grid - CNET

They are there to stabilize the energy grid. Why would they be building these storage batteries if they weren't cost effective?

You like a bunch of sales pitches and call it proof. Where is one of these operating, and without government subsidy?

Texas and California are the start ups on a state wide scale.

Oncor proposes giant leap for grid batteries Dallas Morning News

The rest are what are called micro-grids.

Environmentally-Friendly Battery Energy Storage System to Be Installed at UC San Diego

 

[IanC]

the amount of storage is small, inefficient and inadequate for purpose.

Which is why they are making larger batteries with more efficient storage and retrieval. Battery technology has moved forward a great deal given the advent of cell phones, tablets, hybrid vehicles and cordless power tools.

We are no longer bound to the dry cell and lead acid batteries of yore.

All the batteries you are talking about are small scale. Making a battery big enough to power a city would be as big as a city.

Read and learn!

Battery Energy Storage System for Grid Stabilization AEG Power Solutions

GE Energy Storage Durathon Battery - Energy Power Technologies for Grid Storage

Grid Scale Batteries Large Scale Energy Storage Aquion Energy

Cheap zinc air battery promises beefier power grid - CNET

They are there to stabilize the energy grid. Why would they be building these storage batteries if they weren't cost effective?

I certainly hope you're right. but more typically we get......

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