Catholic Hospitals Putting Religious Freedom Ahead of Medical Ethics

[Sun Devil 92]

It's not, and hospitals - religious or not - refer patients to other hospitals for specific services they are unable to provide as a matter of course, every day.

Bullshit, referring elsewhere and refusing emergency services that they are medically capable of providing are two entirely different things. There is something seriously wrong with you if you cant see that. More likely you are full of shit and know it.

Once again you expose yourself as an asswipe leftwinger.

You know everything.

Go fuck yourself.

Thank you for that well formulated and fully researched response to an important distinction. As always you strive to raise the level of intellectual discourse and show true compassion.

Ahhhhh.......

How wonderful it is to see someone who can demand behaviour of someone else while refusing to live up to that same standard.

Keep at it leftwinger.

 

[Taz]

So the Catholic hospital is only going to help virgins give birth?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You have brought up the problem. There are many differences among the Christian groups. If I had a problem with being pregnant, I would trust a Methodist. I would trust an Episcopalian. I would trust a Quaker. And I would entrust my very life to a Jew. However, there are the Catholics and the Southern Baptists, who I would never, ever entrust with my body and my well-being.

I don't see any problem here.

The problem is when you have a government run health care system, and they choose which doctors you go to.

Perfect example is the VA. Notorious for having bad doctors.

USA TODAY Investigation: VA knowingly hires doctors with past malpractice claims, discipline for poor care

If you want better health care, reduce regulation, so there are more hospitals to choose from, instead of fewer.

You don't see a problem? When a person has a pressing health problem, they go to doctors or are taken to doctors, who supposedly are duty-bound to do what is medically best for them. When you are bleeding out and in pain, you put your faith into caregivers to stop it all. You don't have a choice. You trust them. And then, as the article points out, some people find themselves among people who call themselves doctors who refuse to do what is necessary for their patients' well-being. Just get all of this out in the open! Women are not science projects.

It's shocking but true that women who might have reproductive issues must make out an advance directive as to where they should be taken in the event of an emergency in order to avoid this threat. For issues not involving female reproduction, most hospitals are okay. For issues involving the female reproductive system, steer clear of hospitals run by Catholics.

can you cite a case----in the past 25 years, of a woman DYING because while in a catholic hospital---the docs REFUSED care that would have caused
the death of the fetus? Did such a thing really HAPPEN?. As to refusing to do a tubal ligation----
a tubal ligation is NOT AN EMERGENCY----such a patient can go DOWN THE BLOCK

You're in deep denial! It took me 10 sec. to find this and I'm sure that there are others

Why I Refuse to Be Taken to a Catholic Hospital—And Why Other Women Should Too - Rewire.News

Refusal to Perform Abortions Allows Women to Die

In October 2012, severe back pain brought Savita Halappanavar to a Catholic hospital in Galway, Ireland. When it was revealed that her 17-week pregnancy was unsustainable, doctors ignored her pleas and refused to perform a life-saving abortion, citing Catholic doctrine. Savita died. Her death has implications for all women, knowingly pregnant or not, who enter a Catholic hospital anywhere in the world.

oh----ok very tragic. I was referring to hospitals in the USA The victim seems to me to have a Hindu name

Bullshit. You were referring to Catholic Hospitals and the victim's name has nothing to do with anything

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I am not going to get involved in anyone's medical problems. I am telling you what Catholic teaching is because what you have been presenting here is not Catholic teaching.

I know nothing about Catholic Teaching and care less. What I do know is that these hospitals have been engaging in reprehensible behavior

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Perhaps you have heard of those who try to set up and entrap the Church into being forced to perform abortions.

No I have not. I would ask you to enlighten us but I don't see the relevance

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

They use the guidelines that were set up by pro-abortionists in the 1960s. "Start with 'Life of the Mother' and then expand." In fact, the medical field will tell you that it is rare for a woman to have a pregnancy that actually endangers her life. The ones that do, I have already covered (tubal litigation, cancer, etc.) If you read that article than you know the Church does not even consider these procedures to save the mother's life as abortion. Quite simple. If someone wants to end the life of an unborn child, do not expect the Church to help them do it.

None of this refutes or mitigates what I have documented

 

[Meriweather]

None of this refutes or mitigates what I have documented

You may have presented articles from the Huffington Post, but that does not qualify as "documenting." Documenting would be to compare all Catholic hospitals with each other and then comparing them to non-Catholic hospitals. Anecdotes are just that, stories that often lie outside the norm. Neither you nor I can do the face-to-face research on both sides, delving into all facts and all perspectives. The Huffington Post presented some anecdotes that support their own agenda which opposes the Catholic teaching of Life from conception to natural death.

I wonder how many anecdotes we can present from mothers who tell of secular hospitals wanting to abort their child, so they went to a Catholic hospital, and as a result now have a normal, healthy child.

 

[Correll]

Let us know when you find out what is being withheld . t does not sound like they are that interested in the life of the women

The Catholic Church is a protector of life. Period. The moment you hear to the contrary should be the moment bells go of that something isn't being reported here. The mother's life is always protected, even if it means a spontaneous abortion is likely to occur. I'm guessing what happened is that the hospital said it could it was possible to save both, and the patient (or her family) was after forfeiting the life of the baby even though such a forfeiture wasn't necessary in order to save the mother. (Perhaps safer, but not absolutely necessary.)

Sounds to me like you're trying to sell a narrative to yourself and the rest of us that you desperately want to believe , You might have missed the part about the lawsuit that was filed. There must be substance to the allegations....ya think?

Anyone that would pretend that a lawsuit being filed is evidence of substance,


knows that their case is weak.

Let me know when it's thrown out as frivolous

Oh, so you never heard of bad judges either. Got it.


Man, can you even get mail from reality?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You may have presented articles from the Huffington Post, but that does not qualify as "documenting."

It most certainly is documentation. It's a news story published by a reputable news out let

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Documenting would be to compare all Catholic hospitals with each other and then comparing them to non-Catholic hospitals

Comparing them for what.? To see how many secular hospitals put women at risk of death because of religious beliefs?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Anecdotes are just that, stories that often lie outside the norm

The fact is that they happened and those anecdotes are horror stories about real people who suffered needlessly . You're just trying to squirm you way out of dealing with the reality of what has been going on.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

wonder how many anecdotes we can present from mothers who tell of secular hospitals wanting to abort their child, so they went to a Catholic hospital, and as a result now have a normal, healthy child.

Another pointless red herring. You're welcome to search for such cases but finding any will change nothing

 

[Andylusion]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Would you prefer they not treat anyone?

There was a missionary that went to Jordan. They operated a low cost clinic that treated absolutely anyone. It was way out in the desert. The only thing you had to do, was at the start of every day, they opened with a prayer, and said they were helping people in the name of Jesus.

The authorities said they were not allowed to do that. So they packed up and left.

Who was harmed? The Christians? No. They simply went somewhere else and helped people.

Who was harmed? The people who no longer got treatment.

This is the same left-wing stupidity, that says tax and regulate the rich, until they leave the country. Tax and regulate Amazon until they leave Seattle.

They'll leave. So will the Christians. And you won't have jobs or health care.

Here in Ohio, we have 3 major hospital chains. Riverside Methodist, Doctor's Hospital, and OSU.

OSU is absolute garbage. Doctor's hospital, is not good, but better than OSU.

Riverside Methodist hospitals, are the best. You want good care, you go there.

Of course only Methodist, is a religiously backed hospital chain. You run them out, because they are Christian, and you are just going to be stuck with crappy care elsewhere.

You harm, yourself.

You have brought up the problem. There are many differences among the Christian groups. If I had a problem with being pregnant, I would trust a Methodist. I would trust an Episcopalian. I would trust a Quaker. And I would entrust my very life to a Jew. However, there are the Catholics and the Southern Baptists, who I would never, ever entrust with my body and my well-being.

I don't see any problem here.

The problem is when you have a government run health care system, and they choose which doctors you go to.

Perfect example is the VA. Notorious for having bad doctors.

USA TODAY Investigation: VA knowingly hires doctors with past malpractice claims, discipline for poor care

If you want better health care, reduce regulation, so there are more hospitals to choose from, instead of fewer.

You don't see a problem? When a person has a pressing health problem, they go to doctors or are taken to doctors, who supposedly are duty-bound to do what is medically best for them. When you are bleeding out and in pain, you put your faith into caregivers to stop it all. You don't have a choice. You trust them. And then, as the article points out, some people find themselves among people who call themselves doctors who refuse to do what is necessary for their patients' well-being. Just get all of this out in the open! Women are not science projects.

It's shocking but true that women who might have reproductive issues must make out an advance directive as to where they should be taken in the event of an emergency in order to avoid this threat. For issues not involving female reproduction, most hospitals are okay. For issues involving the female reproductive system, steer clear of hospitals run by Catholics.

The doctor is not 'duty bound' to help people. The doctor can literally walk off the job, never come back, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Doctors not slaves. You don't own them.

If you get bad service somewhere, you can go somewhere else.

Like I said.... there are terrible hospitals here in Columbus Ohio, that I would never go to, and I wouldn't send anyone to.

I simply..... go somewhere else.

How is this a problem?

 

[Lysistrata]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example


There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Would you prefer they not treat anyone?

There was a missionary that went to Jordan. They operated a low cost clinic that treated absolutely anyone. It was way out in the desert. The only thing you had to do, was at the start of every day, they opened with a prayer, and said they were helping people in the name of Jesus.

The authorities said they were not allowed to do that. So they packed up and left.

Who was harmed? The Christians? No. They simply went somewhere else and helped people.

Who was harmed? The people who no longer got treatment.

This is the same left-wing stupidity, that says tax and regulate the rich, until they leave the country. Tax and regulate Amazon until they leave Seattle.

They'll leave. So will the Christians. And you won't have jobs or health care.

Here in Ohio, we have 3 major hospital chains. Riverside Methodist, Doctor's Hospital, and OSU.

OSU is absolute garbage. Doctor's hospital, is not good, but better than OSU.

Riverside Methodist hospitals, are the best. You want good care, you go there.

Of course only Methodist, is a religiously backed hospital chain. You run them out, because they are Christian, and you are just going to be stuck with crappy care elsewhere.

You harm, yourself.

You have brought up the problem. There are many differences among the Christian groups. If I had a problem with being pregnant, I would trust a Methodist. I would trust an Episcopalian. I would trust a Quaker. And I would entrust my very life to a Jew. However, there are the Catholics and the Southern Baptists, who I would never, ever entrust with my body and my well-being.

I don't see any problem here.

The problem is when you have a government run health care system, and they choose which doctors you go to.

Perfect example is the VA. Notorious for having bad doctors.

USA TODAY Investigation: VA knowingly hires doctors with past malpractice claims, discipline for poor care

If you want better health care, reduce regulation, so there are more hospitals to choose from, instead of fewer.

You don't see a problem? When a person has a pressing health problem, they go to doctors or are taken to doctors, who supposedly are duty-bound to do what is medically best for them. When you are bleeding out and in pain, you put your faith into caregivers to stop it all. You don't have a choice. You trust them. And then, as the article points out, some people find themselves among people who call themselves doctors who refuse to do what is necessary for their patients' well-being. Just get all of this out in the open! Women are not science projects.

It's shocking but true that women who might have reproductive issues must make out an advance directive as to where they should be taken in the event of an emergency in order to avoid this threat. For issues not involving female reproduction, most hospitals are okay. For issues involving the female reproductive system, steer clear of hospitals run by Catholics.

The doctor is not 'duty bound' to help people. The doctor can literally walk off the job, never come back, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Doctors not slaves. You don't own th

If you get bad service somewhere, you can go somewhere else.

Like I said.... there are terrible hospitals here in Columbus Ohio, that I would never go to, and I wouldn't send anyone to.

I simply..... go somewhere else.

How is this a problem?

Doctors take an oath. Like I said, let's get this all out into the open before another bleeding female patient comes in by car, ambulance, helicopter. Be honest to her and her loved ones if you cannot treat her. Time is of the essence.If you can't be a doctor, can't be a hospital, say it up front! Let that car, ambulance, helicopter be on its way to deliver the patient where she can be treated.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Would you prefer they not treat anyone?

There was a missionary that went to Jordan. They operated a low cost clinic that treated absolutely anyone. It was way out in the desert. The only thing you had to do, was at the start of every day, they opened with a prayer, and said they were helping people in the name of Jesus.

The authorities said they were not allowed to do that. So they packed up and left.

Who was harmed? The Christians? No. They simply went somewhere else and helped people.

Who was harmed? The people who no longer got treatment.

This is the same left-wing stupidity, that says tax and regulate the rich, until they leave the country. Tax and regulate Amazon until they leave Seattle.

They'll leave. So will the Christians. And you won't have jobs or health care.

Here in Ohio, we have 3 major hospital chains. Riverside Methodist, Doctor's Hospital, and OSU.

OSU is absolute garbage. Doctor's hospital, is not good, but better than OSU.

Riverside Methodist hospitals, are the best. You want good care, you go there.

Of course only Methodist, is a religiously backed hospital chain. You run them out, because they are Christian, and you are just going to be stuck with crappy care elsewhere.

You harm, yourself.

You have brought up the problem. There are many differences among the Christian groups. If I had a problem with being pregnant, I would trust a Methodist. I would trust an Episcopalian. I would trust a Quaker. And I would entrust my very life to a Jew. However, there are the Catholics and the Southern Baptists, who I would never, ever entrust with my body and my well-being.

I don't see any problem here.

The problem is when you have a government run health care system, and they choose which doctors you go to.

Perfect example is the VA. Notorious for having bad doctors.

USA TODAY Investigation: VA knowingly hires doctors with past malpractice claims, discipline for poor care

If you want better health care, reduce regulation, so there are more hospitals to choose from, instead of fewer.

You don't see a problem? When a person has a pressing health problem, they go to doctors or are taken to doctors, who supposedly are duty-bound to do what is medically best for them. When you are bleeding out and in pain, you put your faith into caregivers to stop it all. You don't have a choice. You trust them. And then, as the article points out, some people find themselves among people who call themselves doctors who refuse to do what is necessary for their patients' well-being. Just get all of this out in the open! Women are not science projects.

It's shocking but true that women who might have reproductive issues must make out an advance directive as to where they should be taken in the event of an emergency in order to avoid this threat. For issues not involving female reproduction, most hospitals are okay. For issues involving the female reproductive system, steer clear of hospitals run by Catholics.

The doctor is not 'duty bound' to help people. The doctor can literally walk off the job, never come back, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Doctors not slaves. You don't own th

If you get bad service somewhere, you can go somewhere else.

Like I said.... there are terrible hospitals here in Columbus Ohio, that I would never go to, and I wouldn't send anyone to.

I simply..... go somewhere else.

How is this a problem?

Doctors take an oath.

"First, do no harm."

 

[Lysistrata]

This is why I would advise a woman, or her relatives if she i in distress, to head straight for a Jewish doctor!

 

[ding]

Documenting would be to compare all Catholic hospitals with each other and then comparing them to non-Catholic hospitals

Comparing them for what.? To see how many secular hospitals put women at risk of death because of religious beliefs?

Comparing them to women who wanted to keep their babies but secular hospitals wanted to abort. That's what I gathered his point was.

You should be so lucky to be at a Catholic hospital at the end of your life.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Documenting would be to compare all Catholic hospitals with each other and then comparing them to non-Catholic hospitals

Comparing them for what.? To see how many secular hospitals put women at risk of death because of religious beliefs?

Comparing them to women who wanted to keep their babies but secular hospitals wanted to abort. That's what I gathered his point was.

You should be so lucky to be at a Catholic hospital at the end of your life.

Tell us more about all of those secular hospitals that pushed abortion on women when there was no medical necessity. Lets hear it.

 

[Meriweather]

Tell us more about all of those secular hospitals that pushed abortion on women when there was no medical necessity. Lets hear it.

You haven't heard any stories of the medical community encouraging women who test positive for a possible Downs Syndrome baby to abort? Or, do you consider aborting due to Downs Syndrome a medical necessity?

 

[irosie91]

Tell us more about all of those secular hospitals that pushed abortion on women when there was no medical necessity. Lets hear it.

You haven't heard any stories of the medical community encouraging women who test positive for a possible Downs Syndrome baby to abort? Or, do you consider aborting due to Downs Syndrome a medical necessity?

I have not heard such stories. Why would anyone ask for pre-natal testing if she did not
wish intervention?