Catholic Hospitals Putting Religious Freedom Ahead of Medical Ethics

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Funny, you made no thread when the only single payer system in the US, which is for our Veterans, were putting people on secret death lists cuz they were too expensive to treat and did not have to care for them.

In fact, people like you champion such systems as what we need.

Very curious indeed.

I have no idea what the fuck your talking about but it sound like your watching to much Alex Jones

I forgot who I was talking to. I am talking to someone that only watches CNN and Trevor Noah.

Here ya go.

The doctor who launched the VA scandal

So as you see, the only single payer medical care is the VA system, and people like you want us to suffer like they are suffering.

OK so...there appears to be some validity to it, and by the way CNN did report on problems at the VA

A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list - CNN

The death lists that you refer to are in fact waiting lists and yes people died and I find that equally appalling, so if you think that you can make me out to be a hypocrite just because I didn't jump on it and post it, you are sadly mistaken.

This is just another example of you guys resorting to logical fallacies when you can't defend the indefensible.

1. It's a red herring intended to divert attention away from the actual issue

2. It is a tu quoque (To kwok we )(Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency and not the position presented whereas a person's inconsistency should not discredit the position. Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument. To clarify, although the person being attacked might indeed be acting inconsistently or hypocritically, this does not invalidate their argument."

Now do you remember who you're talking to?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

I went to a Muslim owned restaurant and they wouldn't serve me a BLT...WTF is that?

Another moronic red herring and false equivalency logical fallacy unless you can honestly say that you were put at risk of death because you didn't get your BLT. Jesus Fucking Christ what a pathetic and moronic comparison.

 

[westwall]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

So adult women are not people? You would allow them to die if in miscarriage with a non viable fetus ? Moron! The fetus will die if the woman dies. Could you possibly be that stupid! This is just another failed attempt at an appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy

 

[westwall]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

So adult women are not people? You would allow them to die if in miscarriage with a non viable fetus ? Moron! The fetus will die if the woman dies. Could you possibly be that stupid! This is just another failed attempt at an appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy

No, I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Face it dude, you are anti anything religious, and will denigrate anything they do. Even though the overwhelming majority of religious hospitals are BETTER than the state run hospitals in the UK as a for instance. You don't care about people, you care about power, and how you can enforce that power over others. You may be a progressive, in fact that is a certainty, but you are no patriot, nor do you give a crap about people.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

"a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs."

It's time to cast out religions from operating a hospital or being a doctor if you can't be a doctor to everyone. This is what the Taliban and Isis had in mind for their religious states, the religion deciding everything even at the expense of other people's lives. It's despicable there and here.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

So adult women are not people? You would allow them to die if in miscarriage with a non viable fetus ? Moron! The fetus will die if the woman dies. Could you possibly be that stupid! This is just another failed attempt at an appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy

No, I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Face it dude, you are anti anything religious, and will denigrate anything they do. Even though the overwhelming majority of religious hospitals are BETTER than the state run hospitals in the UK as a for instance. You don't care about people, you care about power, and how you can enforce that power over others. You may be a progressive, in fact that is a certainty, but you are no patriot, nor do you give a crap about people.

What a boatload of bovine excrement. It is clearly you who are the hypocrite. You would let the woman die in the name of the sanctity of life! A life that is not viable. Unbelievable! This is not about being anti religious. It's about being anti stupidity and against allowing these people to impose their religious horseshit on anyone who walks throught the door in need.

I'm sorry if you have to choose between Catholic hospitals and state hospitals over there across the pond. We have many excellent non religious private hospitals here . I am progressive, patriotic and a humanist. What the fuck are you?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Nice twist, but it doesn't fly.

What EXACTLY doesn't fly?

"The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice."

The law providing for free expression already exists, same as the individual right to firearms. Nothing is being "extra-favored". It is simply being re-asserted for the dummies and fools who can't read simple English.

Letting people die when you have the means to save them is not religious freedom or expression!

Matters of conscience are not the venue of governments.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Right, they just made all of this shit up. Huff Post= fake news

No, what I am saying is that Huffpo is relying on a source that can often be not 100% the whole story. It's a legal complaint, and thus by definition is one sided.

They also didn't quote the lawsuit so one could read it themselves, something i hate from either side of the political aisle.

You asked for it

Bishops Sued Over Anti-Abortion Policies at Catholic Hospitals

The American Civil Liberties Union announced on Monday that it had filed a lawsuit against the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, arguing that their anti-abortion directives to Catholic hospitals hamper proper care of pregnant women in medical distress, leading to medical negligence.

The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan on Friday on behalf of a woman who says she did not receive accurate information or care at a Catholic hospital there, exposing her to dangerous infections after her water broke at 18 weeks of pregnancy.

In an unusual step, she is not suing the hospital, Mercy Health Partners in Muskegon, but rather the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Its ethical and religious directives, the suit alleges, require Catholic hospitals to avoid abortion or referrals, “even when doing so places a woman’s health or life at risk.”

She will lose.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I am progressive, patriotic and a humanist. What the fuck are you?

An American.

 

[BlackSand]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

All a physician need do to fulfill their obligation is refer the patient to another doctor or facility that may perform the procedure.
They don't even have to ensure the alternate physician or facility performs the procedure.

Like it or not, they are not obligated to suit your desires against their religious convictions.
Physicians are licensed to practice medicine where legislators, lawyers and political pundits are not.
A physician has more rights in that matter than a baker or wedding photographer has ...

.​

 

[bodecea]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Of course....they would never presume to withhold any kind of medical care for men.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Of course....they would never presume to withhold any kind of medical care for men.

Oh, I dunno. They might balk at a gerbilectomy.

I would!

 

[westwall]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

So adult women are not people? You would allow them to die if in miscarriage with a non viable fetus ? Moron! The fetus will die if the woman dies. Could you possibly be that stupid! This is just another failed attempt at an appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy

No, I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Face it dude, you are anti anything religious, and will denigrate anything they do. Even though the overwhelming majority of religious hospitals are BETTER than the state run hospitals in the UK as a for instance. You don't care about people, you care about power, and how you can enforce that power over others. You may be a progressive, in fact that is a certainty, but you are no patriot, nor do you give a crap about people.

What a boatload of bovine excrement. It is clearly you who are the hypocrite. You would let the woman die in the name of the sanctity of life! A life that is not viable. Unbelievable! This is not about being anti religious. It's about being anti stupidity and against allowing these people to impose their religious horseshit on anyone who walks throught the door in need.

I'm sorry if you have to choose between Catholic hospitals and state hospitals over there across the pond. We have many excellent non religious private hospitals here . I am progressive, patriotic and a humanist. What the fuck are you?

Humanists believe in "utilitarianism". That means, that if you feel it necessary to murder a innocent person to placate the Mob, that is what you will do. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is the mantra of that particular breed of imbecile. Ignoring the fact that the Mob will merely choose a new target and once again the innocent are murdered to placate the Mob.

Funny how humanists resort to unethical behavior at the drop of a hat to keep themselves in power.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

All a physician need do to fulfill their obligation is refer the patient to another doctor or facility that may perform the procedure.
They don't even have to ensure the alternate physician or facility performs the procedure.

Like it or not, they are not obligated to suit your desires against their religious convictions.
Physicians are licensed to practice medicine where legislators, lawyers and political pundits are not.
A physician has more rights in that matter than a baker or wedding photographer has ...

.​

Jesus Fucking Christ what is wrong with you? Are you a woman or a zombie troll bot? Do you want women to die. Hospitals have an obligation to- at minimum -stabilize a critically ill patient before transfer. THEY DID NOT DO THAT. In one case they left a woman in the parking lot and told the family to take her somewhere else. Maybe you would be singing a different tune if it were you! Fuck their religious convictions! Practice medicine and adhere to the Hippocratic oath or get another job.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Are you fucking kidding me! The Administration is doing exactly that, making rules that favor a religious practice. And since when is letting people die an expression of religious freedom? The government should just stay out of it and let the hospitals face the legal consequences of turning people away and forfeit federal funds. THAT would be in keeping with the first amendment

When you feel the same about abortion you can then come back and vent your spleen. Until you acknowledge the fact that babies are people, and they are being killed, your opinion on this subject is laughable.

So adult women are not people? You would allow them to die if in miscarriage with a non viable fetus ? Moron! The fetus will die if the woman dies. Could you possibly be that stupid! This is just another failed attempt at an appeal to hypocrisy logical fallacy

No, I am merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Face it dude, you are anti anything religious, and will denigrate anything they do. Even though the overwhelming majority of religious hospitals are BETTER than the state run hospitals in the UK as a for instance. You don't care about people, you care about power, and how you can enforce that power over others. You may be a progressive, in fact that is a certainty, but you are no patriot, nor do you give a crap about people.

What a boatload of bovine excrement. It is clearly you who are the hypocrite. You would let the woman die in the name of the sanctity of life! A life that is not viable. Unbelievable! This is not about being anti religious. It's about being anti stupidity and against allowing these people to impose their religious horseshit on anyone who walks throught the door in need.

I'm sorry if you have to choose between Catholic hospitals and state hospitals over there across the pond. We have many excellent non religious private hospitals here . I am progressive, patriotic and a humanist. What the fuck are you?

Humanists believe in "utilitarianism". That means, that if you feel it necessary to murder a innocent person to placate the Mob, that is what you will do. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is the mantra of that particular breed of imbecile. Ignoring the fact that the Mob will merely choose a new target and once again the innocent are murdered to placate the Mob.

Funny how humanists resort to unethical behavior at the drop of a hat to keep themselves in power.

That is a pretty bizarre an dishonest interpretation of humanism that you seemed to pull out of your pie hole. Trump is willing to murder people to placate the mob with his new rules on so called religious freedom, and he is by no means a humanist. How dare you bleat about unethical behavior while supporting what these hospitals are doing!??

 

[Correll]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. ....

Get the fuck out of here unless you have something relevant and intelligent to contribute, which is highly doubtful

It is not intelligent to let someone like you, who has demonstrated such a strong anti-Christian bias, to start a conversation, with a claim of not being all to bash Christians.


Your claim is not credible.


It is relevant to any discussion involving, or about Christians, that your goal is to bash them and religious freedom.


That is just the way it is.

 

[Meriweather]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is hap

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Martybegan makes an excellent point. Catholic policy is, and always has been, to protect both lives, if possible. The mother's life takes priority in that she is given life-saving treatment even should the baby be miscarried due to the treatment. Some of these stories simply do not add up. Something is being withheld by the complainants.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

Of course....they would never presume to withhold any kind of medical care for men.

Oh, I dunno. They might balk at a gerbilectomy.

I would!

I see that you take this issue very seriously. You have the intellect and compassion of a turnip

The issue I take seriously. You? I do not.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is hap

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Martybegan makes an excellent point. Catholic policy is, and always has been, to protect both lives, if possible. The mother's life takes priority in that she is given life-saving treatment even should the baby be miscarried due to the treatment. Some of these stories simply do not add up. Something is being withheld by the complainants . I.

Let us know when you find out what is being withheld . t does not sound like they are that interested in the life of the women