Catholic Hospitals Putting Religious Freedom Ahead of Medical Ethics

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

You are 100% wrong. Writing a law that says religious beliefs can supercede objectively good medical care is, precisely,"passing a law respecting religion".

 

[ding]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

You are 100% wrong. Writing a law that says religious beliefs can supercede objectively good medical care is, precisely,"passing a law respecting religion".

Where is the lack of objectivity in saving both lives?

Or when both lives cannot be saved, saving the mother's?

The problem you people have is that you never look at both sides to see the whole story, so you go off half cocked and get made to look like fools when the whole story is told.

Abortion and Double Effect | Catholic Answers

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

By the idiotic unlogic presented by Billy Kinetta on page one, one has only to claim as peraonal, religious belief something that runs contrary to existing law. Once this is done, then we have to undermine existing law to allow for religious freedom.

And, according to the same , idiotic unlogic, this can NEVER be taken too far.

Damn America...you stupid

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "too far".

You are 100% wrong. Writing a law that says religious beliefs can supercede objectively good medical care is, precisely,"passing a law respecting religion".

You are in error. "Prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is precisely what such a law protects, though such law is redundant.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

By the idiotic unlogic presented by Billy Kinetta on page one, one has only to claim as peraonal, religious belief something that runs contrary to existing law. Once this is done, then we have to undermine existing law to allow for religious freedom.

Which word stumps you in "Congress shall make no law"?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

By the idiotic unlogic presented by Billy Kinetta on page one, one has only to claim as peraonal, religious belief something that runs contrary to existing law. Once this is done, then we have to undermine existing law to allow for religious freedom.

Which word stumps you in "Congress shall make no law"?

It is you who needs to ask yourself that, as you are supporting laws respecting religion.

Face it...you are a fraud. All of this prancing and preening is just smoke and mirrors. The truth is that you do not mind if the government passes laws respecting religion, as long as they respect the religion or the dogma or the beliefs you prefer.

Just admit it, and put aside the lies and the act.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

By the idiotic unlogic presented by Billy Kinetta on page one, one has only to claim as peraonal, religious belief something that runs contrary to existing law. Once this is done, then we have to undermine existing law to allow for religious freedom.

Which word stumps you in "Congress shall make no law"?

It is you who needs to ask yourself that, as you are supporting laws respecting religion.

Face it...you are a fraud. All of this prancing and preening is just smoke and mirrors. The truth is that you do not mind if the government passes laws respecting religion, as long as they respect the religion or the dogma or the beliefs you prefer.

Just admit it, and put aside the lies and the act.

Better to put aside the idiots.

No offense.

 

[ding]

By the idiotic unlogic presented by Billy Kinetta on page one, one has only to claim as peraonal, religious belief something that runs contrary to existing law. Once this is done, then we have to undermine existing law to allow for religious freedom.

And, according to the same , idiotic unlogic, this can NEVER be taken too far.

Damn America...you stupid

But nothing is running contrary to existing law. That's where your error lies.

No one is sacrificing the life of the mother.

 

[martybegan]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Right, they just made all of this shit up. Huff Post= fake news

No, what I am saying is that Huffpo is relying on a source that can often be not 100% the whole story. It's a legal complaint, and thus by definition is one sided.

They also didn't quote the lawsuit so one could read it themselves, something i hate from either side of the political aisle.

You asked for it

Bishops Sued Over Anti-Abortion Policies at Catholic Hospitals

The American Civil Liberties Union announced on Monday that it had filed a lawsuit against the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, arguing that their anti-abortion directives to Catholic hospitals hamper proper care of pregnant women in medical distress, leading to medical negligence.

The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan on Friday on behalf of a woman who says she did not receive accurate information or care at a Catholic hospital there, exposing her to dangerous infections after her water broke at 18 weeks of pregnancy.

In an unusual step, she is not suing the hospital, Mercy Health Partners in Muskegon, but rather the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Its ethical and religious directives, the suit alleges, require Catholic hospitals to avoid abortion or referrals, “even when doing so places a woman’s health or life at risk.”

Still just the complaints.

and in suing the Bishops, they are going after religious freedom, which is a no-no

 

[martybegan]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is hap

Selected excerpts

The Trump administration is poised to hand religious conservatives another victory: a slew of new federal rules that would give religious health care providers wide latitude to refuse to treat patients or perform procedures if doing so would violate their religious beliefs.

Some of the most powerful hospital networks in the country have lobbied for these “conscience” rules, claiming they shouldn’t fear a legal risk for practicing medicine according to their religious beliefs. But those same hospital networks are already using religious justifications to place women in life-threatening situations with impunity, documents obtained by HuffPost show.

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

At a hospital owned by Ascension, the largest Catholic hospital network in the country and a staunch proponent of a rule that would give nearly any health care worker the right to refuse care, doctors refused to intervene as a woman was undergoing a life-threatening miscarriage because they believed that doing so would be the same as performing an abortion, the documents show. Instead, they carted her out to the hospital parking lot so a relative could drive her to a different emergency room, where she underwent a massive blood transfusion and emergency surgery.

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example

..............on Oct. 25, 2012, when a woman arrived at St. John Hospital and Medical Center of Detroit in an ambulance. The woman was between 17 and 23 weeks pregnant — a point where an infant would not survive outside the womb — and in the midst of a miscarriage. Her condition was life-threatening and indicated that she needed an emergency termination to prevent the risk of bleeding to death, according to a complaint later filed by a medical staffer at another hospital.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Martybegan makes an excellent point. Catholic policy is, and always has been, to protect both lives, if possible. The mother's life takes priority in that she is given life-saving treatment even should the baby be miscarried due to the treatment. Some of these stories simply do not add up. Something is being withheld by the complainants . I.

Let us know when you find out what is being withheld . t does not sound like they are that interested in the life of the women

The whole idea of a legal pleading is only to tell your side of the case. of course things that disagree with your position will not be provided in the pleading.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Let me start by saying that this is not intended to bash Catholics or religious freedom. It is a much needed look at what happens when the concept of religious freedom is taken too far.

My feeling that if people believe that their religion prevents them from providing certain kinds of care, they simply should not be medical professionals and that goes for any religion, not just Catholics. This is what is happening and, not surprisingly, the Trump Administration is working to make the problem worse

Here's What Happens When A Catholic Hospital Won't Try To Save You | HuffPost

Selected excerpts

Here are some examples of the insanity that is taking place

Ascension, which operates more than 150 hospitals according to these same religious principles, also runs a hospital where doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation, even though the patient was at risk of dying if she ever became pregnant again. And at hospitals controlled by Trinity Health, a network that manages nearly 100 care centers around the Midwest, multiple women have accused doctors of withholding emergency medicine because it violated their prohibitions on certain kinds of reproductive health care.

Another example


There is much more but you get the idea. Religious hypocrisy concerning the sanctity of life, Medical professionals violating their vow to do no harm, and the Trump Administration enabling them for evangelical vote.

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Right, they just made all of this shit up. Huff Post= fake news

No, what I am saying is that Huffpo is relying on a source that can often be not 100% the whole story. It's a legal complaint, and thus by definition is one sided.

They also didn't quote the lawsuit so one could read it themselves, something i hate from either side of the political aisle.

You asked for it

Bishops Sued Over Anti-Abortion Policies at Catholic Hospitals

The American Civil Liberties Union announced on Monday that it had filed a lawsuit against the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, arguing that their anti-abortion directives to Catholic hospitals hamper proper care of pregnant women in medical distress, leading to medical negligence.

The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan on Friday on behalf of a woman who says she did not receive accurate information or care at a Catholic hospital there, exposing her to dangerous infections after her water broke at 18 weeks of pregnancy.

In an unusual step, she is not suing the hospital, Mercy Health Partners in Muskegon, but rather the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Its ethical and religious directives, the suit alleges, require Catholic hospitals to avoid abortion or referrals, “even when doing so places a woman’s health or life at risk.”

Still just the complaints.

and in suing the Bishops, they are going after religious freedom, which is a no-no

Religious freedom to let people die.

 

[martybegan]

The quotes are all based only on the complaint documents in the lawsuits, not on anything that has been substantiated yet.

Right, they just made all of this shit up. Huff Post= fake news

No, what I am saying is that Huffpo is relying on a source that can often be not 100% the whole story. It's a legal complaint, and thus by definition is one sided.

They also didn't quote the lawsuit so one could read it themselves, something i hate from either side of the political aisle.

You asked for it

Bishops Sued Over Anti-Abortion Policies at Catholic Hospitals

The American Civil Liberties Union announced on Monday that it had filed a lawsuit against the nation’s Roman Catholic bishops, arguing that their anti-abortion directives to Catholic hospitals hamper proper care of pregnant women in medical distress, leading to medical negligence.

The suit was filed in federal court in Michigan on Friday on behalf of a woman who says she did not receive accurate information or care at a Catholic hospital there, exposing her to dangerous infections after her water broke at 18 weeks of pregnancy.

In an unusual step, she is not suing the hospital, Mercy Health Partners in Muskegon, but rather the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. Its ethical and religious directives, the suit alleges, require Catholic hospitals to avoid abortion or referrals, “even when doing so places a woman’s health or life at risk.”

Still just the complaints.

and in suing the Bishops, they are going after religious freedom, which is a no-no

Religious freedom to let people die.

Do we force Christian Scientists to seek medical help?

 

[Blackrook]

The lawsuit is obviously an attempt to get a court order, forcing Catholic hospitals and doctors to perform abortions.