Caterpillar is Closing Shop IN ILLINOIS!!!

[The T]

If you live in IL, then you are getting bombarded with this story. The CEO of arguably the most important Corporation in Illinois basically told Gov Douche Bag that IL better change it's business unfriendly climate (the highest corporate tax in the world) or they are shipping out!!!

Of course Gov Douche Bag responses the typical arrogant way of dismissing the warning and then going to the media calling the CEO of Caterpillar (who no doubt has a large ego) a liar! Why the move takes place Quinn, no matter what you do at that point, they aren't coming back!

On the evening news yesterday, they had a very large list of C-Corps that already made the jump to other states. IN is the biggest receiptant the IL C-Corp exodus. Governor Daniels must send Governor Quinn a thank you letter for making his job easier! I know WS is getting a good share also, no doubt businesses feel more comfortable with Walker at the helm than the Quinn!

Tell you what? Let the LIBS in that demented BLUE STATE continue their assault on business for thier over-regulated nanny-State...chase business off...go *BANKRUPT*...and then come to the American People for bailing out?

Not Only NO...but *HELL NO*...

KaleeFornia? You watching? listening?

New York?

Taxechussetts?

The rest of Liberal enclaves?

We Red States will tell you NO. Fix your own damned problems.

heh....37 million Americans live in California 20 million live in New York (about half are in the city).

These are some pretty BIG enclaves, and I'm just getting started......

Indeed. And they think they can run roughshod over the rest of us by demanding a part of what we worked for because *WE* did it right?

They have another thing coming.

 

[JFK_USA]

So we're experiencing a "race to the bottom" with tax rates and other business climate indicators it seems like.

Alabama, which has a pretty great business climate (but not the most amazing work force), is getting more and more industry to move here.

So one state changes its tax rate to be competitive...then another does...then another does...there's nothing wrong with that, per se, as economies have to shrink and expand and test the limits...in an attempt to be as efficient as possible. The problem comes when you realize how much of society is propped up with tax money. School lunches, old people's medicare, etc etc.

The equilibrium of the economy is going to be an interesting thing to behold.

Yeah Alabama maybe a great business state, but is a horrible state to educate your kids. Ranked 40th in the nation.

Thats the problem with giving everything to businesses, eventually you begin to see that society begins to break down. Less educated people work low wage jobs, increases crime and makes for an unsafe because you cut police spending to get those businesses.

When businesses get everything, a civil society dies. You have to draw a line. You have to balance that line. You have to balance quality of education and quality of jobs. If you have a great balance, the society is better off.

Businesses have forgotten that without the people, they don't a successful business. Its time they understand. No more gravy train for businesses.

 

[Samson]

Tell you what? Let the LIBS in that demented BLUE STATE continue their assault on business for thier over-regulated nanny-State...chase business off...go *BANKRUPT*...and then come to the American People for bailing out?

Not Only NO...but *HELL NO*...

KaleeFornia? You watching? listening?

New York?

Taxechussetts?

The rest of Liberal enclaves?

We Red States will tell you NO. Fix your own damned problems.

heh....37 million Americans live in California 20 million live in New York (about half are in the city).

These are some pretty BIG enclaves, and I'm just getting started......

Indeed. And they think they can run roughshod over the rest of us by demanding a part of what we worked for because *WE* did it right?

They have another thing coming.

They do?

Here is an interesting map showing red and blue counties in the USA' 2008 presidential election based on their population rather than geographic size:

Why do you think the blue won't simply continue to grow?

 

[The T]

heh....37 million Americans live in California 20 million live in New York (about half are in the city).

These are some pretty BIG enclaves, and I'm just getting started......

Indeed. And they think they can run roughshod over the rest of us by demanding a part of what we worked for because *WE* did it right?

They have another thing coming.

They do?

Here is an interesting map showing red and blue counties in the USA' 2008 presidential election based on their population rather than geographic size:

Why do you think the blue won't simply continue to grow?

Now try to find that 2010 style?

 

[Samson]

Indeed. And they think they can run roughshod over the rest of us by demanding a part of what we worked for because *WE* did it right?

They have another thing coming.

They do?

Here is an interesting map showing red and blue counties in the USA' 2008 presidential election based on their population rather than geographic size:

Why do you think the blue won't simply continue to grow?

Now try to find that 2010 style?

Um, there was no Presidential election in 2010.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Oh,....... *wow*,........ Cats coming to Texas?
2. Cool.
3. Thats *Catastic*!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[The T]

They do?

Here is an interesting map showing red and blue counties in the USA' 2008 presidential election based on their population rather than geographic size:

Why do you think the blue won't simply continue to grow?

Now try to find that 2010 style?

Um, there was no Presidential election in 2010.

Indeed...but there was a referendum aginst the current one...and we are speaking of States are we not?

 

[Samson]

Now try to find that 2010 style?

Um, there was no Presidential election in 2010.

Indeed...but there was a referendum aginst the current one...and we are speaking of States are we not?

I'm saying that "we" are becoming the minority, illustrated by the map of the 2008 presidential election in which the "have-nots" clearly outnumbered the "haves."

 

[DaGoose]

employees don't "Move on to better jobs: about 40% have been there over 10 years:

PayScale - Caterpillar, Inc. Employer Salary, Average Salaries

Employee Years of Experience

Less than 1 year
5%
1-4 years
32%
5-9 years
24%
10-19 years
27%
20 years or more
12%

Bullshit. My workplace has been hiring welders from CAT left and right. They start out earning more here than they were making after 5 years or more at CAT.

And where I work around 85% of the workforce has been there 30 years or more. So 25% being there 10 years is an incredibly high rate of turnover.

.

 

[The T]

Um, there was no Presidential election in 2010.

Indeed...but there was a referendum aginst the current one...and we are speaking of States are we not?

I'm saying that "we" are becoming the minority, illustrated by the map of the 2008 presidential election in which the "have-nots" clearly outnumbered the "haves."

I knew what you were pointing at...but the Statist Democrats lost MANY seats in the Federal Congress...and State legislatures across the many States...to the RED...

And those that are RED are going ahead with legislation to get their fiscal houses in order...and are under attack for it. The Blue ones continue on with their spending money they don't have...their budgets IN THE RD...and they won't care until they become insolvent...then they will ASK the FED for BAILOUTS...My point is NO WAY IN HELL.

The responsible ones are trying to do the correct thing as they are under attack by the Unions and the Statist LEFT...

Let us get on the same page shall we?

 

[westwall]

AGAIN....Since CAT broke the union the average starting wage is around $12 an hour and NO BENEFITS. If they move elsewhere just how much will they pay YOUR citizens? $10 an hour? Of course, "Tennessee Jim-Bob" down to the trailer park will probably be thrilled with $10 an hour. I'll bet most of you wouldn't stand in line for those jobs.

.

Interesting how your arguments almost allways have some sort of insult. Tennessee Jim-Bob will be quite happy I'm sure. And what exactly will your now unemployed folks do? The smart ones will move and stay with the company...if they can. The dumb ones will stay and live off the dole for as long as they can and whine.

And really, someone who pushes a broom is worth more then 12 bucks an hour?

The ones who run the machines ALSO push the brooms. And get paid a whopping $12 an hour with no benefits to start. It's called a two tiered wage scale. (I know this since two cousins work there and my father retired from there)

CAT also forced retirees to double the amount of money they must pay for health care. (Please understand they have no recourse)

Now keep in mind they did all of this while reporting record profits for the shareholders.

That may sound like pure heaven to you but it's crap to me.

Only around their personal machines. Beginners start on the floor until they have a skill. The unions have killed themselves. It's not the pay rates so much as the work rules that have soured the companies and other employees, (my dad figured there was 25% of the workforce at the trucking company he worked for that did nothing but sit around and drink coffee, he despised them for killing a company that he truly liked and had treated him and the other good workers very well, they just couldn't support having one quarter of the work force gathering dust).

And profits are the requirement of the business. That's what they exist for, or havn't you figured that out?

 

[Samson]

employees don't "Move on to better jobs: about 40% have been there over 10 years:

PayScale - Caterpillar, Inc. Employer Salary, Average Salaries

Employee Years of Experience

Less than 1 year
5%
1-4 years
32%
5-9 years
24%
10-19 years
27%
20 years or more
12%

Bullshit. My workplace has been hiring welders from CAT left and right. They start out earning more here than they were making after 5 years or more at CAT.

And where I work around 85% of the workforce has been there 30 years or more. So 25% being there 10 years is an incredibly high rate of turnover.

.

Around here you'll find out that stomping your little feet, and making unsupported claims only undermines your credability.



In your case, however, I doubt you could do your credability much more harm...

 

[DaGoose]

When you have all this space and 12% unemployment, yes we'll take jobs that start at $10 an hour. My bet is Cat will pay better than you want to believe.

And that would be a fool's bet. I know. CAT is in my back yard. CAT is where kids start, learn something and then move onto good jobs.

CAT is the Wal-Mart jobs of the manufacturing jobs.
.

Average of 8 Caterpillar Intern Salaries
$18.81/hr

Caterpillar Hourly Pay | Glassdoor.com

Employer: Caterpillar, Inc.

Welder, Cutter, Solderer, or Brazer $19.33
Machinist Set Up Operator $18.99
Production Machinist $16.26
Engine or Other Machine Assembler $17.39
Assembler $15.69
Materials Specialist $15.27
Warehouse Worker $14.74

PayScale - Caterpillar, Inc. Employer Wages, Hourly Wage Rate

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc

[-] Retail Sales Associate (300)
$8.24 - $10.46

[-] Retail Sales Associate (300)


Overtime $11.97 - $15.74
Hourly Rate $8.24 - $10.46
Learn more about this career

[+] Retail Cashier (264)
$8.06 - $10.01

[+] Retail Cashier (264)


Overtime $11.84 - $15.13
Hourly Rate $8.06 - $10.01
Learn more about this career

[+] Department Manager, Retail Store (254)
$10.54 - $14.28

[+] Department Manager, Retail Store (254)


Overtime $15.82 - $21.92
Hourly Rate $10.54 - $14.28
Learn more about this career

[+] Cashier (226)
$7.78 - $9.15

You were incredibly misinformed.

No. You are.

Most people do not hire in as "interns" at CAT and get paid an average wage of $12 an hour.

That does not seem likely. After more than a decade of failed strikes and job actions — mainly in Illinois, where Caterpillar has its biggest factories — the U.A.W. reluctantly accepted a two-tier contract that provides for significantly lower wages and benefits for newly hired employees. The new second tier is as much as $20 an hour below the cost of employing Mr. Doty, 50, and a dwindling band of other veterans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/business/yourmoney/26wages.html
.

 

[westwall]

ILLINOIS 5.%

MINNESOTA (a) 5.3%

NORTH CAROLINA 6.%

OREGON (a) 5.%

UTAH 5.%

Only 2 in the nation have higher taxes. You should read your own links. That shit you got from huff poo made you look like an idiot.

Not that you needed the help, but damn dood, you linked up proof that you were wrong and huffpoo lied.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I really shouldn't post late at night.

It appears I was
*gasp*
I was
*choke*
*hack*
*coughwrongcough*

Looks like da goose got cooked......

Which proves you don't know Jack Schitt about me.

.

Nor do I care to!

 

[The T]

Looks like da goose got cooked......

Which proves you don't know Jack Schitt about me.

.

Nor do I care to!

Isn't itamazing how self-agrandizing they get in their sensitivity?

 

[westwall]

Which proves you don't know Jack Schitt about me.

.

Nor do I care to!

Isn't itamazing how self-agrandizing they get in their sensitivity?

Yes, it is! And looky there, the basic warehouse worker makes more than 12 bucks an hour. In other words, once the broom pusher has figured out the lay of the land and can actually do something skillful he'll get a raise. dagoose is cooked yet again.

 

[Political Junky]

He's uprooting families and factory all to protest a 2.2% raise in tax.

 

[The Infidel]

He's uprooting families and factory all to protest a 2.2% raise in tax.

Get a calculator out and add that up over a certain period of time.

Nahhhh... nevermind the details right?

 

[westwall]

He's uprooting families and factory all to protest a 2.2% raise in tax.

I have no idea what CAT trys to make as a percentage, but I can guarantee you it is not 10%. Supermarkets profit margins are on the order of 1.6 to 1.8%, so in their case a 2.2% rise would put them out of business. You would be amazed how little "big business" makes in the overall scheme of things.

 

[DaGoose]

Interesting how your arguments almost allways have some sort of insult. Tennessee Jim-Bob will be quite happy I'm sure. And what exactly will your now unemployed folks do? The smart ones will move and stay with the company...if they can. The dumb ones will stay and live off the dole for as long as they can and whine.

And really, someone who pushes a broom is worth more then 12 bucks an hour?

The ones who run the machines ALSO push the brooms. And get paid a whopping $12 an hour with no benefits to start. It's called a two tiered wage scale. (I know this since two cousins work there and my father retired from there)

CAT also forced retirees to double the amount of money they must pay for health care. (Please understand they have no recourse)

Now keep in mind they did all of this while reporting record profits for the shareholders.

That may sound like pure heaven to you but it's crap to me.

Only around their personal machines. Beginners start on the floor until they have a skill. The unions have killed themselves. It's not the pay rates so much as the work rules that have soured the companies and other employees, (my dad figured there was 25% of the workforce at the trucking company he worked for that did nothing but sit around and drink coffee, he despised them for killing a company that he truly liked and had treated him and the other good workers very well, they just couldn't support having one quarter of the work force gathering dust).

And profits are the requirement of the business. That's what they exist for, or havn't you figured that out?

Ohhh....I probably had that figured out before you were even born.

And 25% of the workforce did nothing but sit around and drink coffee? So what you're saying is that 25% of the workforce was management? Sounds about right.

And you know that they only "cleaned up around their machines" how? I wasn't aware that you worked or knew someone that works at CAT.

.