Capitalism vs. Slavery...lefty dyslexia...a classic example...

[georgephillip]

You are wrong...again...genocide did not happen...

Skeptic but Jewish Capitalism Ended Slavery

It does not make sense to say that capitalism was responsible for slavery when slavery existed under any system. Indeed, it is possible to make slavery compatible with any system by declaring that the slave class is simply sub-human. These socialists that attack capitalism on the slavery issue fail to realize that in a socialist country the same exact problem can still be present if the state declares a class of people to be slaves. Indeed, this is exactly what happened with Nazi Germany, if you want an example. Nazi Germany was a socialistic country that forced Jews and other groups of people into labor camps to do work for them. That is slavery and it happened under socialism. So other systems also are not immune to practicing slavery.

Therefore, the argument that capitalism was responsible for slavery is a false-cause fallacy. The fallacy arises because one confuses capitalism, a factor with slavery, as being the cause for slavery itself. Not to mention that this is a bad causation to draw from capitalism considering that it correlates with about 7% of all slave history.

My argument is that the opposite is true. It is not that capitalism causes slavery it is rather that capitalism ended slavery. Ever since capitalism appeared as an economic system something interesting begins to happen. Slavery becomes less and less practiced globally. Up to most history slavery was the common institution. Then capitalism becomes more accepted, and when that happens, slavery slowly begins to disappear. So I see capitalism as the liberator of slavery than the other way around as what other people suggest.

Here's where you're going wrong:

"It is a common criticism of capitalism, in places like college, to condemn capitalism for being pro-slavery. The argument is that slaves were traded on the market back and forth for the sake of earning profit. And so it was capitalism that was responsible for the evils of slavery."

In the US, it was the evil of chattel slavery that was responsible for the success of capitalism, and only the chattering class on the Right are surprised slavery carried within itself the seeds of its own destruction.

Skeptic but Jewish Capitalism Ended Slavery

 

[2aguy]

The Right to Work is a threat to the means to exchange one's labor for that which one needs.

another example of lefty dyslexia...

 

[georgephillip]

"It is not simply that the labor of enslaved people underwrote 19th-century capitalism.

"Enslaved people were the capital: four million people worth at least $3 billion in 1860, which was more than all the capital invested in railroads and factories in the United States combined.

"Seen in this light, the conventional distinction between slavery and capitalism fades into meaninglessness."

You are conflating "commerce" with "capitalism"...selling a person who is a slave doesn't mean you are practising capitalism...since one party is not free to give his consent to the transaction...

Commerce is the exchange of commodities, and capitalism treats labor as just another commodity. You may not like it, but this country doesn't exist today without genocide and slavery.

Capitalism is free exchange of goods and services to the mutual profit of all trading parties. Note that this includes the exchange of service (labor). I assure you it exists as I personally engaged in it, this very day.

I spent an hour engaging my extensive experience, knowledge and tools... which solved a problem for an individual who knew of my skills in resolving such in a timely and professional manner. For that hour of time, I received a couple of hundred bucks.

They were happy, having had their problem resolved, thus representing their profit and I was happy having increased my means to fulfill my own life and that of my family.

Works every single time it is exercised by reasonable people, intent on bearing the responsibilities that sustain their right to exercise their right to do so.

Simple stuff... despite being beyond the means of the intellectually less fortunate.

What you've just described is a mode of business that existed for centuries before capitalism and plantation slavery came into being.

What point do you imagine you're making?

Yes, what I just described is the natural order of economics, which eventually came to be known as Capitalism.

The point of which is to refute the nonsense to which I was responding.

Speaking of nonsense, what is the "natural order of economics"?

 

[occupied]

If capitalism ended slavery it was only because mechanization makes a worker worth much less than a slave, it costs far more to feed and house a person than to give them a handful of nickels and calling it a wage. In the early days of the industrial revolution landless immigrants were worked in hellish conditions while the owners, beholding to no one, took the lion's share of the profits. The fight for fairer wages and safer conditions was long, hard and bloody, all the while the ownership class fought accountability tooth and nail. Capitalists would have a world where the worker has no rights in the workplace and must work paycheck to paycheck in economic desperation. Just because slavery has been abolished does not mean the lure of cheap coerced labor is gone, it's why our jobs are in China after all.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Liberals equate capitalism with slavery all the time. "The Man" keeping them down. "Dammit, I work at Burger King, why can't I make as much as an off shore worker. My ass wants $20.00 an hour to make these fucking burgers."

That's because liberals are not capable of taking responsibility for their failures and losses. It's always someone else's fault that they are losers. And who better to blame than the guy who has what they most want?

And THAT is because Left-think; the species of reasoning on which "The Left" rests, is known as Relativism and, relativism axiomatically rejects objectivity.

Objectivity is an essential element of truth and that doesn't change when 'the truth' is that relevant to one's self. Therefore the original sin of the ideological left, is that they cannot recognize the truth, even as it relates to themselves. Thus they lack any sense of humility, no sense of responsibility and are at BEST in whatever culture they happen to exist: A general nuisance and at worse, a threat to reason and freedom itself.

 

[2aguy]

Capitalism is the free exchange of goods and services...what part of slave...and the lack of freedom to exchange goods or services...is so hard to understand...slavery is incompatible with Capitalism...

Have a nice night and weekend...

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

"It is not simply that the labor of enslaved people underwrote 19th-century capitalism.

"Enslaved people were the capital: four million people worth at least $3 billion in 1860, which was more than all the capital invested in railroads and factories in the United States combined.

"Seen in this light, the conventional distinction between slavery and capitalism fades into meaninglessness."

You are conflating "commerce" with "capitalism"...selling a person who is a slave doesn't mean you are practising capitalism...since one party is not free to give his consent to the transaction...

Commerce is the exchange of commodities, and capitalism treats labor as just another commodity. You may not like it, but this country doesn't exist today without genocide and slavery.

Capitalism: the free exchange of goods and services to the mutual profit of all trading parties. Note that this includes the exchange of service (labor). I assure you it exists as I personally engaged in it, this very day.

I spent an hour engaging my extensive experience, knowledge and tools... which solved a problem for an individual who knew of my skills in resolving such in a timely and professional manner. For that hour of time, I received a couple of hundred bucks.

They were happy, having had their problem resolved, thus representing their profit and I was happy having increased my means to fulfill my own life and that of my family.

Works every single time it is exercised by reasonable people, intent on bearing the responsibilities that sustain their right to exercise their right to do so.

Simple stuff... despite being beyond the means of the intellectually less fortunate.

What you've just described is a mode of business that existed for centuries before capitalism and plantation slavery came into being.

What point do you imagine you're making?

Yes, what I just described is the natural order of economics, which eventually came to be known as Capitalism.

The point of which is to refute the nonsense to which I was responding.

Speaking of nonsense, what is the "natural order of economics"?

It's clear that you read, so how is it possible that you've come to this point in the discussion and NOT KNOW the answer to your own question, given that the answer is embodied in the very contributions to which you are responding. FYE: I've gone to the trouble of highlighting the salient elements. Good luck in trying to find it... .

 

[Mr Natural]

Free labor is every business man's fondest wet dream.

And if it can't be free, then cheap is the next best thing.

 

[georgephillip]

Slavery was a blight on the south and kept it from advancing...while the capitalist North prospered...

So why is socialist North not prospering and capitalist Sun Belt prospering in 2014?

Wage slavery and right to work laws.

ROFLMNAO!

Now isn't that precious?

The Right to Work is a threat to the means to exchange one's labor for that which one needs.

Yet another demonstration of the foreign ideas that are hostile to American principle, on which the Ideological rests. Which explains why:​

YOU CAN'T HIDE SOCIALISM!​

Right to Work Laws are government regulations prohibiting voluntary agreements between labor unions and employers. Surely, that doesn't conform to your definition of capitalism?

 

[occupied]

Capitalism is the free exchange of goods and services...what part of slave...and the lack of freedom to exchange goods or services...is so hard to understand...slavery is incompatible with Capitalism...

Have a nice night and weekend...

Tell that to the Chinese laborer who made your phone.

 

[georgephillip]

Free labor is every business man's fondest wet dream.

And if it can't be free, then cheap is the next best thing.

There was a time in the US when the "enlightened" businessman recognized the need to pay his workers enough to buy the products they were making; fortunately, the middle classes in Brazil, India, and China are now able to fulfill that need too.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Slavery was a blight on the south and kept it from advancing...while the capitalist North prospered...

So why is socialist North not prospering and capitalist Sun Belt prospering in 2014?

Wage slavery and right to work laws.

ROFLMNAO!

Now isn't that precious?

The Right to Work is a threat to the means to exchange one's labor for that which one needs.

Yet another demonstration of the foreign ideas that are hostile to American principle, on which the Ideological rests. Which explains why:​

YOU CAN'T HIDE SOCIALISM!​

Right to Work Laws are government regulations prohibiting voluntary agreements between labor unions and employers. Surely, that doesn't conform to your definition of capitalism?

ROFL! Right to work simply precludes the government from forcing individuals to lower their potential to earn a living, by stripping them of the right to bargain INDIVIDUALLY! There is no place in viable freedom, for collective bargaining. As it is a fools paradise.

 

[2aguy]

Ending slavery - Thomas Sowell - Page full

How the west destroyed slavery...

Chances do not look good. The anti-slavery movement was spearheaded by people who would today be called "the religious right" and its organization was created by conservative businessmen. Moreover, what destroyed slavery in the non-Western world was Western imperialism.

Nothing could be more jolting and discordant with the vision of today's intellectuals than the fact that it was businessmen, devout religious leaders and Western imperialists who together destroyed slavery around the world. And if it doesn't fit their vision, it is the same to them as if it never happened.

As anti-slavery ideas eventually spread throughout Western civilization, a worldwide struggle pitted the West against Africans, Arabs, Asians and virtually the entire non-Western world, which still saw nothing wrong with slavery. But Western imperialists had gunpowder weapons first and that enabled the West to stamp out slavery in other societies as well as in its own.

The review of "Bury the Chains" in the New York Times tried to suggest that the ban against the international slave trade somehow served British self-interest. But John Stuart Mill, who lived in those times, said that the British "for the last half-century have spent annual sums equal to the revenue of a small kingdom in blockading the Africa coast, for a cause in which we not only had no interest, but which was contrary to our pecuniary interest."

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Free labor is every business man's fondest wet dream.

And if it can't be free, then cheap is the next best thing.

There was a time in the US when the "enlightened" businessman recognized the need to pay his workers enough to buy the products they were making; fortunately, the middle classes in Brazil, India, and China are now able to fulfill that need too.

And they're able to do so, because American principle has spread to those nations.

People earn the value they represent in terms of production, within the scope of the market in which they are operating.

With the bureaucracies of the Left having crippled the major industries in the United States, forcing such to move to locations where the costs associated with operating those industries provides for the potential to profit.

What you're asking for, is for a business to subsidize you, through providing you with compensation beyond that which your production otherwise warrants.

I suppose it's good if you happen to the one who gets it. But such is the nature of relativism... its subjective nature is concerned only with the bearer.

 

[georgephillip]

Slavery was a blight on the south and kept it from advancing...while the capitalist North prospered...

So why is socialist North not prospering and capitalist Sun Belt prospering in 2014?

Wage slavery and right to work laws.

ROFLMNAO!

Now isn't that precious?

The Right to Work is a threat to the means to exchange one's labor for that which one needs.

Yet another demonstration of the foreign ideas that are hostile to American principle, on which the Ideological rests. Which explains why:​

YOU CAN'T HIDE SOCIALISM!​

Right to Work Laws are government regulations prohibiting voluntary agreements between labor unions and employers. Surely, that doesn't conform to your definition of capitalism?

ROFL! Right to work simply precludes the government from forcing individuals to lower their potential to earn a living, by stripping them of the right to bargain INDIVIDUALLY! There is no place in viable freedom, for collective bargaining. As it is a fools paradise.

Are corporations individuals or collectives in your paradise, Fool?

 

[occupied]

Ending slavery - Thomas Sowell - Page full

How the west destroyed slavery...

Chances do not look good. The anti-slavery movement was spearheaded by people who would today be called "the religious right" and its organization was created by conservative businessmen. Moreover, what destroyed slavery in the non-Western world was Western imperialism.

Nothing could be more jolting and discordant with the vision of today's intellectuals than the fact that it was businessmen, devout religious leaders and Western imperialists who together destroyed slavery around the world. And if it doesn't fit their vision, it is the same to them as if it never happened.

As anti-slavery ideas eventually spread throughout Western civilization, a worldwide struggle pitted the West against Africans, Arabs, Asians and virtually the entire non-Western world, which still saw nothing wrong with slavery. But Western imperialists had gunpowder weapons first and that enabled the West to stamp out slavery in other societies as well as in its own.

The review of "Bury the Chains" in the New York Times tried to suggest that the ban against the international slave trade somehow served British self-interest. But John Stuart Mill, who lived in those times, said that the British "for the last half-century have spent annual sums equal to the revenue of a small kingdom in blockading the Africa coast, for a cause in which we not only had no interest, but which was contrary to our pecuniary interest."

The religious right of today bears little resemblance to the 19th century people who opposed slavery. Down south equally religious people pointed to various bible passages as proof that god approved of slavery, there's the similarity. The prosperity gospel idiots of today are their successors.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Slavery was a blight on the south and kept it from advancing...while the capitalist North prospered...

So why is socialist North not prospering and capitalist Sun Belt prospering in 2014?

Wage slavery and right to work laws.

ROFLMNAO!

Now isn't that precious?

The Right to Work is a threat to the means to exchange one's labor for that which one needs.

Yet another demonstration of the foreign ideas that are hostile to American principle, on which the Ideological rests. Which explains why:​

YOU CAN'T HIDE SOCIALISM!​

Right to Work Laws are government regulations prohibiting voluntary agreements between labor unions and employers. Surely, that doesn't conform to your definition of capitalism?

ROFL! Right to work simply precludes the government from forcing individuals to lower their potential to earn a living, by stripping them of the right to bargain INDIVIDUALLY! There is no place in viable freedom, for collective bargaining. As it is a fools paradise.

Are corporations individuals or collectives in your paradise, [Master]?

Corporations are collective, comprised of individuals, thus in effect, they are in full possession of the same rights as each individual of which it is comprised.

 

[jasonnfree]

If capitalism ended slavery it was only because mechanization makes a worker worth much less than a slave, it costs far more to feed and house a person than to give them a handful of nickels and calling it a wage. In the early days of the industrial revolution landless immigrants were worked in hellish conditions while the owners, beholding to no one, took the lion's share of the profits. The fight for fairer wages and safer conditions was long, hard and bloody, all the while the ownership class fought accountability tooth and nail. Capitalists would have a world where the worker has no rights in the workplace and must work paycheck to paycheck in economic desperation. Just because slavery has been abolished does not mean the lure of cheap coerced labor is gone, it's why our jobs are in China after all.

Actually slaves were more valuable. They were paid for and were an investment. Now the ownership class can close down entire industries and chase cheap labor all over the globe. And if it ruins entire areas in this country that used to do well? Profit first in capitalism.

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalism is the free exchange of goods and services...what part of slave...and the lack of freedom to exchange goods or services...is so hard to understand...slavery is incompatible with Capitalism...

Have a nice night and weekend...

"The term capitalism, in its modern sense, is often attributed to Karl Marx.[7][20] In his magnum opusCapital, Marx analysed the 'capitalist mode of production' using a method of understanding today known as Marxism.

"However, Marx himself rarely used the term 'capitalism', while it was used twice in the more political interpretations of his work, primarily authored by his collaborator Friedrich Engels.

"In the 20th century defenders of the capitalist system often replaced the term capitalism with phrases such as free enterprise and private enterprise and replaced capitalist with rentier and investor in reaction to the negative connotations associated with capitalism."

Capitalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Free labor is every business man's fondest wet dream.

And if it can't be free, then cheap is the next best thing.

Of course, free labor doesn't exist... and cheap labor is usually the most expensive labor money can buy.

LOL! Nature... it's so counter intuitive.