Can't Find A Good TV Anymore

[Bob Blaylock]

I have a portable tube tester. Really an essential tool for anyone serious about tubes.


What many people don't realize is that tubes are not obsolete. Not only are there still many professional applications where there is no SS equivalent that can handle the power, but while you won't find tubes in consumer appliances anymore, the tube remains the superior device for analog music amplification still found in endless high end audio brands and pro musical instrument amps.

I had thought that the CRT was the last form of vacuum tube that was still in widespread use, at least in consumer-grade equipment, until I learned that the magnetron inside of a microwave oven is actually considered a form of a vacuum tube.

And I am aware that three are many audio enthusiasts that are convinced that vacuum-tube-based equipment sounds better than solid state equipment. I haven't had occasion to make that comparison for myself, and I don't know that my hearing is fine enough to tell the difference, if there is, indeed a difference.

I did recently acquire a very nice 1957 or 1958 vintage radio, and have noticed that there does seem to be a richness to the way it sounds, that seems better than a more modern radio playing the same station. I don't know if the difference is real, or just a trick of my mind, and, if there is a difference, I don't know for certain, that it is because it is vacuum-tube-based.

 

[katsteve2012]

Welp, my 2009 Mitsubishi 60” DLP TV was a goner again last night. I sat down to watch TV and eat something, relax, and BING! No picture, no sound, just a red status light. After about 30 minutes of fiddling, I was sure the TV was really DOA this time. At the very least salvageable only by a factory technician. But after a time of rest and reflection laying on my bed thinking about it watching my 1986 Hitachi 27” CRT bedroom TV which still works like a champ never a problem (they really make the BEST TVs), I got behind the thing, delved into it and resurrected it for now at least to live another day.

But my patience is broken. I’ve had it with DLP. I want a new TV with better technology and I would buy one today and pay any price, if but for a few things:

• 60” TVs are apparently no longer made. Selection is now down to either 55” or 65” and my speaker system is set up optimized for a 60” so I would have to reconfigure my speakers to fit a 65”.
• It must be stand mounted. I cannot do wall mount (not that I would want to) because my rear wall slants.
• My TV had a boatload of inputs for HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, RF in, outputs, you name it. And I use them all.
• I’m a name brand buyer: Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, but most TVs now are fuzzy brands I never even heard of. What’s an “Insignia?” "Hisense?" And please don’t even mention Samsung to me. Every Samsung product I've dealt with is crap.

Much to my dismay, all I found was marketing hype. Mind you, I was an electronics/electrical engineer who has a lot of background in video (I could probably design and make my own TV) and all I found was a couple of useful features (like 120Hz refresh rate which was just coming out new when I bought my TV). Instead, they hit you with

• 4XHD resolution (why do I need this when all my sources are 720 to 1080 at best?).
• LED technology, processing technology, backlighting technology (they are all nice, all good, not a critical choice). I guess plasma TV is long gone.
• Built in streaming services, Google, Roku, Apple, etc. I don’t use any of that crap and don’t even want Ethernet connected to my TV. Even the damn remote controls have buttons for all this stuff I do not want or need.
• The damn TVs now have 99 specs, 95 of which are of little to no value to the user. They have USB ports, optical output ports, BUT NO FREAKING INPUTS.

The ONE THING that matters, to a TV buyer you would think, is the capability to have the input range and scale needed to support your existing equipment, but that spec is buried in the specs and when you find it, the inputs are:

3 or 4 HDMI inputs! And at least one or two called HDMI 2.1 which probably means incompatible with regular HDMI. Probably an RF modulated input (antenna in), and if you are lucky, maybe ONE composite input. And that is it. Many of my devices were made before HDMI was even invented. Worse, I hate HDMI. But we are forced to use it because unlike DVI, HDMI allows the industry to spy on you and collect data on your viewing habits and things. And as I went up in price, $1000, $2000, $3000 and more, instead of getting more inputs, all it got me was more gingerbread technology fluff garbage features I do not need.

This really bothers me as I know how companies and engineers think: Designed Obsolescence. Instead of adding inputs to support older technology and gear, they want you to throw everything out TO BUY NEW. Gotta keep that return business! Hell, not only do I still have two professional Super-VHS tape decks that cost $800 each in 1988, but I even still have a Sony Laserdisc player! It is cool to fire it up once in a while. Back then, they used to make laserdiscs which had the full TAR (Theatrical aspect ratio / letter-boxing) which showed the FULL width of widescreen films even if the aspect ratio was 5:1.

Now when you buy a BluRay or DVD in widescreen, they still chop some of the ends off like pan and scan to fit the standard 16:9 HD widescreen format of today which isn’t very widescreen. I remember going to see Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World at the theater in 1963 that the screen was so wide, it was curved, and you had to look side to side to take it all in, you could not follow all the action at once. Oh what an experience going to see a movie used to be at one time. So now I am forced to consider just keeping my old TV and sinking money into it to keep it going, or looking for some sort of “converter box” that takes all these old interface formats like composite video, S-video, component video, DVI, etc., which then CONVERTS them into an HDMI output and hope the thing works half well.

Anyone ever try one of those?

Most of the good brands are gone. You can find Sony, Vizio, LG, Samsung (ugh), but not Hitachi, Pioneer Elite, Panasonic Prism, or Mitsubishi, and some others that used to be the best there was. Nearly all of it is Chinese or Korean made now.

I don't care much for some of todays technology, however I do have a newer 65 inch 4K Samsung in my master bedroom that has a great picture, but in my gameroom, I have an old 64 inch Pioneer Elite Pro700HD, with the piano black finish, which I bought back in 1998. It still works like new, and I can't bring myself to get rid of it

The only downside is that it only has S-video, component and composite video inputs.

I recently purchased an HDMI to component converter so I could connect a Nividia Shield streaming box that I installed Kodi on, and it actually works great.

I agree that they don't make audio and video electronics like they used to.

I still have an old Sony SLV-R1000 SVHS editing VCR, and a Pioneer Elite DVL-90 disc player that plays laser discs, cd's and dvd's, and both work like new, and are connected to an ancient Denon AVR-5800 receiver that weighs about 60 pounds.
I'm still fascinated by all the inputs and outputs.

 

[toobfreak]

And I am aware that three are many audio enthusiasts that are convinced that vacuum-tube-based equipment sounds better than solid state equipment. I haven't had occasion to make that comparison for myself, and I don't know that my hearing is fine enough to tell the difference, if there is, indeed a difference.

Trust me, there is. I've spent much of my life developing and perfecting it.

I did recently acquire a very nice 1957 or 1958 vintage radio, and have noticed that there does seem to be a richness to the way it sounds, that seems better than a more modern radio playing the same station. I don't know if the difference is real, or just a trick of my mind, and, if there is a difference, I don't know for certain, that it is because it is vacuum-tube-based.

Nice little radio. What you are hearing is real, don't you believe your ears? But believe me, it is just the tip of the iceberg shown in a little table radio with basic circuit compared to what can be done in an all-out balls-to-the-wall custom engineered $200,000 music system.

 

[toobfreak]

but in my gameroom, I have an old 64 inch Pioneer Elite Pro700HD, with the piano black finish, which I bought back in 1998. It still works like new, and I can't bring myself to get rid of it

FOR GODS SAKE, DON'T, because technology aside, you'll never replace it built the way it is and you'll regret getting rid of it. Pioneer Elite video stuff was great, but I never liked their audio receivers.

The only downside is that it only has S-video, component and composite video inputs.

You can buy a converter to convert HDMI or whatever to the other formats. I'm looking into that right now.

I recently purchased an HDMI to component converter so I could connect a Nividia Shield streaming box that I installed Kodi on, and it actually works great.

See?

I still have an old Sony SLV-R1000 SVHS editing VCR, and a Pioneer Elite DVL-90 disc player that plays laser discs, cd's and dvd's, and both work like new, and are connected to an ancient Denon AVR-5800 receiver that weighs about 60 pounds.

Sounds great! I actually still have two JVC S-VHS 7-head editing decks myself. A big door opens down to expose the tape slot and the inside door is covered in control buttons! Built like a tank. Then the remote likewise the whole front flips up to reveal many more buttons underneath and an LCD display.

I'm still fascinated by all the inputs and outputs.
View attachment 779068

View attachment 779067

Wow. That is a lot of IO connections. Denon made great stuff (I still use one of their direct drive tables) but I never bought any super-integrated AV Home theater stuff like that.

 

[katsteve2012]

FOR GODS SAKE, DON'T, because technology aside, you'll never replace it built the way it is and you'll regret getting rid of it. Pioneer Elite video stuff was great, but I never liked their audio receivers.


You can buy a converter to convert HDMI or whatever to the other formats. I'm looking into that right now.


See?


Sounds great! I actually still have two JVC S-VHS 7-head editing decks myself. A big door opens down to expose the tape slot and the inside door is covered in control buttons! Built like a tank. Then the remote likewise the whole front flips up to reveal many more buttons underneath and an LCD display.



Wow. That is a lot of IO connections. Denon made great stuff (I still use one of their direct drive tables) but I never bought any super-integrated AV Home theater stuff like that.

I remember those JVC SVHS units. They were some of the best ever made. I have no intention of getting rid of any of the equipment that I currently have, since it all still works very well, and build quality is not the same anymore.

What I would like to find is a good high end vintage analog turntable, but the choices are few. McIntosh has a few good ones, but their business is all online now, and very few stores carry their line.

If you're looking for a good part supplier, the most reliable source that I've found for signal and format converters is the site below.
They appear to have just about everything for audio, video and photography.

hdmi to component video converter | B&H Photo Video

Shop B&H's in stock, large inventory for fast shipping, great service and everyday low prices on hdmi to component video converter. For more info, please call 800-947-4415

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[psikeyhackr]

So basically, no true videophiles here who have a wide diversity of equipment like me dealing with keeping it all relevant and working in the HDMI age.

Here I am in the late 1980s with about 7 inputs, plus audio out to a sound system, plus video and audio sub-processing for removing video and audio noise and other things. BTW, that TV still works and I have it in my bedroom.

View attachment 778724

This is the best, most recent photo I have of my current video set up.



View attachment 778725

Oh no! Tube amplifiers.

I bet my Vandersteen 2Ci's sound better. LOL

 

[psikeyhackr]

Talk to an economist who doesn't know a capacitor from a transistor about planned obsolescence and they will call you a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

 

[liarintheWH]

LG C1 OLED

LG C1 65-Inch 4K Smart OLED TV (OLED65C1PUB) | LG USA

Discover OLED at the Top of Its Game with an LG 65'' OLED TV (OLED65C1PUB). Watch Your Content Come to Life with the Best OLED Display & Features.

www.lg.com

Thank me later.

 

[toobfreak]

I remember those JVC SVHS units. They were some of the best ever made.

Most people don't know that it was the Victor Company of Japan (JVC) which actually invented S-VHS and maybe VHS too (I forget now), and I've used those decks for everything from recording video of the surface of Mars through a telescope to as an FM audio recorder. They can be used just to record as an audio tape deck of remarkable fidelity.

I have no intention of getting rid of any of the equipment that I currently have, since it all still works very well, and build quality is not the same anymore.

Not only was the stuff built to last a very long time in order to be reliable (because most of it was mechanical), the stuff was also built to be serviceable if it broke.

What I would like to find is a good high end vintage analog turntable, but the choices are few. McIntosh has a few good ones, but their business is all online now, and very few stores carry their line.

I have three tables (actually four), but I wouldn't consider selling any; two of them were made in Ireland (one was even briefly seen in the movie A Clockwork Orange!). Here, someone even wrote an article about it:

Why Stanley Kubrick loved the Transcriptor

It's the turntable from A Clockwork Orange...

www.techradar.com

If I were really looking for a good table, I'd shop the couple of high-end used audio sites that are out there and look for a deal rather than buy any that I've seen out there made now, despite LPs even making a comeback.

If you're looking for a good part supplier, the most reliable source that I've found for signal and format converters is the site below.

Thx.

 

[toobfreak]

Oh no! Tube amplifiers.

LOOK OUT!

I bet my Vandersteen 2Ci's sound better.

Those are cute little speakers, I bet they sound nice! But I push over 3,000 watts through my system using a 5-way, five cabinet, nine driver speaker system that stands six feet tall powered by one H-class amp, two bridged bipolar mono power amps, two mono push-pull tubed amps and a stereo tubed amp, probably more than the Steens can take.

 

[toobfreak]

LG C1 OLED Thank me later.

Hmm. Out of stock. Well, it has a lot to like like a perfect stand for me but any TV which puts its gaming specs (I'm not a gamer, I don't subscribe to streaming and I don't intend to even connect the set to the internet) and its AI smart magic control (whatever that is) ahead of important stuff like connectivity, ports, connections and the like, worries me a little. But I do like the OLED technology, the stand is perfect for my needs, and I am looking at the LG line.

Maybe if they have a model in stock with less of the techno crap piled on top for stuff I'll never use, I might be interested. I just need a good TV monitor, not one capable of sending a man to the moon, but thanks.

 

[Dekster]

My think about TVs is I go somewhere that has a bunch on display and look at the picture and listen to the sound on each of the ones that have the picture quality I like. Even within the same brand, results vary. We do have one LG tv in the den I hate because its sound is too theater. I mean that is fine when you are watching a movie. It is annoying when you are watching the news.

 

[katsteve2012]

Most people don't know that it was the Victor Company of Japan (JVC) which actually invented S-VHS and maybe VHS too (I forget now), and I've used those decks for everything from recording video of the surface of Mars through a telescope to as an FM audio recorder. They can be used just to record as an audio tape deck of remarkable fidelity.


Not only was the stuff built to last a very long time in order to be reliable (because most of it was mechanical), the stuff was also built to be serviceable if it broke.


I have three tables (actually four), but I wouldn't consider selling any; two of them were made in Ireland (one was even briefly seen in the movie A Clockwork Orange!). Here, someone even wrote an article about it:

Why Stanley Kubrick loved the Transcriptor

It's the turntable from A Clockwork Orange...

www.techradar.com

If I were really looking for a good table, I'd shop the couple of high-end used audio sites that are out there and look for a deal rather than buy any that I've seen out there made now, despite LPs even making a comeback.


Thx.

Victor is in fact the company that invented the VHS format, and as I recall, they competed with the old Sony Betamax systems. I had one of those Betamax systems back in the 70"s. Back then my video set up was the BetaMax and one of those old RCA ColorTrax console sets. Since that was before what we now know as "Home Theater", I had a separate audio system with a Marantz 2240 receiver, a Pioneer PL series direct drive turntable, and Acoustic Research AR-6 speakers.


I wish I had kept the turntable, and the Marantz receiver. I still see an abundance of both selling on Ebay for top dollar.

 

[toobfreak]

Victor is in fact the company that invented the VHS format, and as I recall, they competed with the old Sony Betamax systems. I had one of those Betamax systems back in the 70"s. Back then my video set up was the BetaMax and one of those old RCA ColorTrax console sets.

Betamax was a better system but it lost out to VHS because VHS offered longer recording time per tape.

Since that was before what we now know as "Home Theater", I had a separate audio system with a Marantz 2240 receiver, a Pioneer PL series direct drive turntable, and Acoustic Research AR-6 speakers. I wish I had kept the turntable, and the Marantz receiver. I still see an abundance of both selling on Ebay for top dollar.

All pretty good stuff and very well respected in its day. And it can all still be had on the used market, often with complete restoration.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Betamax was a better system but it lost out to VHS because VHS offered longer recording time per tape.

Also, Sony, for the most part, refused to license it out to other manufacturers. I know that I did once find a Zenith-brand Betamax VCR at a swap meet, once, many years ago, but I don't know if that was actually made by Zenith, or whether it was a rebadged Sony.

But Sony's monopoly on Betamax units kept the price much higher than VHS units that were freely manufactured by many companies, and that surely contributed to the ultimate dominance of VHS.

A similar factor is relevant to the PC vs Macintosh conflict, The Macintosh absolutely is, and has always been, technically, a far superior platform to the various incarnations of MS-DOS, Windows, and whatever else has run on the PC; but Apple's monopoly on it has held it far back as far market share.

 

[22lcidw]

I know nothing. However, several years ago I read an article that there are companies that produce the screens. There are different levels of quality of the TV screens. No matter the company.

 

[toobfreak]

I know nothing. However, several years ago I read an article that there are companies that produce the screens. There are different levels of quality of the TV screens. No matter the company.

That has pretty much always been true. Back in the picture tube CRT day, most picture tubes were all made by just a few companies except maybe the Trinitron which was proprietary.

Even VCRs and other video appliances were mostly made all by just a few companies---- I remember the name Matsushita for one. I think they were the parent company of Panasonic.

Even furniture, as far as I can remember almost all furniture really all came from 3-4 companies, most of them in the Carolinas.

Now today, most of your news comes from just a few sources, most of our big companies are owned by just a few parent companies, and soon, all of our land and government will be owned by just a few politicians and Chinese.

 

[toobfreak]

Well, I just bought two TVs, I bought the larger one I spoke of needing for my home theater moving up from a 60" to a 65" since they don't make 60s anymore, and realized that with them coming here to take away my old TV, this would be a good time to get rid of my old 1986(?) Hitachi CRT as well, friend that it is. 27” CRTs are heavy as hell, the thing was a brute to carry up the steps many years ago as it was and there is no way I’d try to lift and carry it down the steps now, not to mention you can't just throw a TV away anymore, I'd have to load it in my trunk and drive it 30 minutes out south of me far away, sit in a long line to get rid of it now, plus the picture has been getting dim for years anyway, the lion’s share of electrons having boiled off the cathode of the tube years ago—— it is still watchable but obviously not the bright picture it once was, so I relented to part with it and get a new LED TV in its place that will also have a digital tuner built in now so will no longer need my outboard D/A tuner I’ve been using which converts to analog RF modulated to input to the old set! I'm replacing it with a 40" wide screen HD TV.

So that’s about it! I get both sets in about a week, delivered and installed, old TVs hauled away, and I’ll have more to say then as I did a major research on the whole field of TVs and could have bought anything, but as I will explain, actually eschewed getting the latest and greatest features and technology finding that I was actually paying for a lot of crap I didn’t want or need and the newest technology is actually not as ideal for my needs as slightly older but better proven technology, and I found a brand that has less techno-crap on it and is more basic but actually better designed and a better fit to my needs more centered on just good ol' TV watching and even has a better assortment of inputs and things much more costly TVs often fail to have!

Anyone considering a TV in their future will want to hear what I found out as reading through 30 or more websites on the matter and ratings and comparos of brands and features, none of them give very good real world info instead putting the sets on a test bench and measuring them with lab test equipment which doesn’t actually mean as much as just sitting down and USING the set!

I would have bought the sets sooner but I’ve had a lot of other things here to deal with and finally got back yesterday to crawling behind the TV gear and disconnecting a whole bunch of cords and wires and things so that now, all that is left to do before they take my current TV is to pull the plug and three HDMI cables.

 

[Flopper]

Samsung 4K TV works great. Even over antenna is HD now. You cant use old CRT analog anymore.

Samsung fixed one TV free (one time only fix) in home repair guy. Brighter and better than ever. 4-5yrs old still going strong..

Im becoming hooked on Netflix. No commercials. Many love ROKU. But for live sports i could cut cord.

I think Samsung's are the best choice for most people. The user interface is good, and I believe the repair record is very good judging from my family and neighbors experience. I think LG TV's are a better choice for the more technically inclined. There are more setting allowing more flexibility and documentation is more detailed than Samsung. Also they have more feature rich models at the high end. That said I prefer Samsung because I spend less time messing with the TV and more time watching my programs.

 

[Flopper]

Mine is 4HD, and I've had no problems with the quality of picture.

When someone mentions quality of picture, it reminds me of my neighbor who spends over 4k on a 65 inch TV to get the best quality picture and what does he watch? Cable TV that is limit in both sound and picture quality and his favor programming is old movies on TCM. It's kind like people paying top dollar for the fastest Internet and spending your time on USMB. In general the limiting factor is usually not the equipment in your home or your internet connection but rather the source of what you are accessing.