Can't Find A Good TV Anymore

[cnm]

What's a TV?

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Welp, my 2009 Mitsubishi 60” DLP TV was a goner again last night. I sat down to watch TV and eat something, relax, and BING! No picture, no sound, just a red status light. After about 30 minutes of fiddling, I was sure the TV was really DOA this time. At the very least salvageable only by a factory technician. But after a time of rest and reflection laying on my bed thinking about it watching my 1986 Hitachi 27” CRT bedroom TV which still works like a champ never a problem (they really make the BEST TVs), I got behind the thing, delved into it and resurrected it for now at least to live another day.

But my patience is broken. I’ve had it with DLP. I want a new TV with better technology and I would buy one today and pay any price, if but for a few things:

• 60” TVs are apparently no longer made. Selection is now down to either 55” or 65” and my speaker system is set up optimized for a 60” so I would have to reconfigure my speakers to fit a 65”.
• It must be stand mounted. I cannot do wall mount (not that I would want to) because my rear wall slants.
• My TV had a boatload of inputs for HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, RF in, outputs, you name it. And I use them all.
• I’m a name brand buyer: Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, but most TVs now are fuzzy brands I never even heard of. What’s an “Insignia?” "Hisense?" And please don’t even mention Samsung to me. Every Samsung product I've dealt with is crap.

Much to my dismay, all I found was marketing hype. Mind you, I was an electronics/electrical engineer who has a lot of background in video (I could probably design and make my own TV) and all I found was a couple of useful features (like 120Hz refresh rate which was just coming out new when I bought my TV). Instead, they hit you with

• 4XHD resolution (why do I need this when all my sources are 720 to 1080 at best?).
• LED technology, processing technology, backlighting technology (they are all nice, all good, not a critical choice). I guess plasma TV is long gone.
• Built in streaming services, Google, Roku, Apple, etc. I don’t use any of that crap and don’t even want Ethernet connected to my TV. Even the damn remote controls have buttons for all this stuff I do not want or need.
• The damn TVs now have 99 specs, 95 of which are of little to no value to the user. They have USB ports, optical output ports, BUT NO FREAKING INPUTS.

The ONE THING that matters, to a TV buyer you would think, is the capability to have the input range and scale needed to support your existing equipment, but that spec is buried in the specs and when you find it, the inputs are:

3 or 4 HDMI inputs! And at least one or two called HDMI 2.1 which probably means incompatible with regular HDMI. Probably an RF modulated input (antenna in), and if you are lucky, maybe ONE composite input. And that is it. Many of my devices were made before HDMI was even invented. Worse, I hate HDMI. But we are forced to use it because unlike DVI, HDMI allows the industry to spy on you and collect data on your viewing habits and things. And as I went up in price, $1000, $2000, $3000 and more, instead of getting more inputs, all it got me was more gingerbread technology fluff garbage features I do not need.

This really bothers me as I know how companies and engineers think: Designed Obsolescence. Instead of adding inputs to support older technology and gear, they want you to throw everything out TO BUY NEW. Gotta keep that return business! Hell, not only do I still have two professional Super-VHS tape decks that cost $800 each in 1988, but I even still have a Sony Laserdisc player! It is cool to fire it up once in a while. Back then, they used to make laserdiscs which had the full TAR (Theatrical aspect ratio / letter-boxing) which showed the FULL width of widescreen films even if the aspect ratio was 5:1.

Now when you buy a BluRay or DVD in widescreen, they still chop some of the ends off like pan and scan to fit the standard 16:9 HD widescreen format of today which isn’t very widescreen. I remember going to see Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World at the theater in 1963 that the screen was so wide, it was curved, and you had to look side to side to take it all in, you could not follow all the action at once. Oh what an experience going to see a movie used to be at one time. So now I am forced to consider just keeping my old TV and sinking money into it to keep it going, or looking for some sort of “converter box” that takes all these old interface formats like composite video, S-video, component video, DVI, etc., which then CONVERTS them into an HDMI output and hope the thing works half well.

Anyone ever try one of those?

Most of the good brands are gone. You can find Sony, Vizio, LG, Samsung (ugh), but not Hitachi, Pioneer Elite, Panasonic Prism, or Mitsubishi, and some others that used to be the best there was. Nearly all of it is Chinese or Korean made now.

Hitachi made great tvs for years

Today Samsung or Sony
Sony also still makes a nice tv
Had a Sony projection tv that doubled as a coffee table ran for over 20 years was still working when I gave it away

 

[westwall]

Any? How many have you gone through? My main TV is from 2009 with probably 60,000 hours use on it, and my other TV is from about 1986, an analog CRT with picture tube with even more use and still on its original picture tube! I refuse to have anymore TVs than that.

Granted, no comparison to the TVs of today, but I'm really only interested in 1020 HD resolution, and pretty good sound built in. 120Hz refresh rate. The color space of 1020 is all anyone needs and most of the rest of the stuff they pack into TVs now is pretty useless gingerbread with MARGINAL gains mainly aimed at gaming and geeks deep into streaming to keep pushing steaming onto people to replace cable. That and internet connectivity so people can surf the web on their TV (no interest to me as I already have a very good dedicated computer for that) and so that they can "plug into" your viewing and programming to collect data on users.

Also of no interest to me.

60,000 hours? That's a LOT of sittin! I am far too busy to sit and watch that much TV!

 

[Mushroom]

Its fun to watch some old movies in 3D sometimes.

3D was a failed tech and barely lasted a couple of years.

I find it fascinating as I have seen it come and go multiple times over the decades. It seems like every 10 years or so somebody tried it yet again, and it is never around for very long and goes away again.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Welp, my 2009 Mitsubishi 60” DLP TV was a goner again last night. I sat down to watch TV and eat something, relax, and BING! No picture, no sound, just a red status light. After about 30 minutes of fiddling, I was sure the TV was really DOA this time. At the very least salvageable only by a factory technician. But after a time of rest and reflection laying on my bed thinking about it watching my 1986 Hitachi 27” CRT bedroom TV which still works like a champ never a problem (they really make the BEST TVs), I got behind the thing, delved into it and resurrected it for now at least to live another day.

But my patience is broken. I’ve had it with DLP. I want a new TV with better technology and I would buy one today and pay any price, if but for a few things:

• 60” TVs are apparently no longer made. Selection is now down to either 55” or 65” and my speaker system is set up optimized for a 60” so I would have to reconfigure my speakers to fit a 65”.
• It must be stand mounted. I cannot do wall mount (not that I would want to) because my rear wall slants.
• My TV had a boatload of inputs for HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, RF in, outputs, you name it. And I use them all.
• I’m a name brand buyer: Hitachi, Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, but most TVs now are fuzzy brands I never even heard of. What’s an “Insignia?” "Hisense?" And please don’t even mention Samsung to me. Every Samsung product I've dealt with is crap.

Much to my dismay, all I found was marketing hype. Mind you, I was an electronics/electrical engineer who has a lot of background in video (I could probably design and make my own TV) and all I found was a couple of useful features (like 120Hz refresh rate which was just coming out new when I bought my TV). Instead, they hit you with

• 4XHD resolution (why do I need this when all my sources are 720 to 1080 at best?).
• LED technology, processing technology, backlighting technology (they are all nice, all good, not a critical choice). I guess plasma TV is long gone.
• Built in streaming services, Google, Roku, Apple, etc. I don’t use any of that crap and don’t even want Ethernet connected to my TV. Even the damn remote controls have buttons for all this stuff I do not want or need.
• The damn TVs now have 99 specs, 95 of which are of little to no value to the user. They have USB ports, optical output ports, BUT NO FREAKING INPUTS.

The ONE THING that matters, to a TV buyer you would think, is the capability to have the input range and scale needed to support your existing equipment, but that spec is buried in the specs and when you find it, the inputs are:

3 or 4 HDMI inputs! And at least one or two called HDMI 2.1 which probably means incompatible with regular HDMI. Probably an RF modulated input (antenna in), and if you are lucky, maybe ONE composite input. And that is it. Many of my devices were made before HDMI was even invented. Worse, I hate HDMI. But we are forced to use it because unlike DVI, HDMI allows the industry to spy on you and collect data on your viewing habits and things. And as I went up in price, $1000, $2000, $3000 and more, instead of getting more inputs, all it got me was more gingerbread technology fluff garbage features I do not need.

This really bothers me as I know how companies and engineers think: Designed Obsolescence. Instead of adding inputs to support older technology and gear, they want you to throw everything out TO BUY NEW. Gotta keep that return business! Hell, not only do I still have two professional Super-VHS tape decks that cost $800 each in 1988, but I even still have a Sony Laserdisc player! It is cool to fire it up once in a while. Back then, they used to make laserdiscs which had the full TAR (Theatrical aspect ratio / letter-boxing) which showed the FULL width of widescreen films even if the aspect ratio was 5:1.

Now when you buy a BluRay or DVD in widescreen, they still chop some of the ends off like pan and scan to fit the standard 16:9 HD widescreen format of today which isn’t very widescreen. I remember going to see Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World at the theater in 1963 that the screen was so wide, it was curved, and you had to look side to side to take it all in, you could not follow all the action at once. Oh what an experience going to see a movie used to be at one time. So now I am forced to consider just keeping my old TV and sinking money into it to keep it going, or looking for some sort of “converter box” that takes all these old interface formats like composite video, S-video, component video, DVI, etc., which then CONVERTS them into an HDMI output and hope the thing works half well.

Anyone ever try one of those?

Most of the good brands are gone. You can find Sony, Vizio, LG, Samsung (ugh), but not Hitachi, Pioneer Elite, Panasonic Prism, or Mitsubishi, and some others that used to be the best there was. Nearly all of it is Chinese or Korean made now.

They definitely make electronics very differently than they used to; and as you've observed, in large part, they are not made to be repaired.

I know what your avatar means, and from that, what your username means. I have a love, myself, for the sort of vintage electronics that your avatar represents. Here's one of my prized possessions, the crown jewel of my meager collection of vintage electronics. I have a few other items based on this technology, but none other nearly as impressive as this.

I find myself wishing that somewhere out there, a 1960 Curtis Mathes, in mint condition, would find its way to you. I imagine that you are one who would appreciate such a beast in a way that very few would.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I've always wanted a Samsung or Sony 60 inch flat screen, 4HD with 3D capability. But I don't have that kind of money.

3D sucks. Why would you want it?

3D was a failed tech and barely lasted a couple of years.

Last television that my wife and I bought was in 2010. 3D was a big thing, then, and I had to have it.

I don't think my cable provider offers 3D content. It did, at one time, long ago.

But we also have a 3D Blu-ray player, and quite a lot of movies on 3D Blu-ray. At this point, I think 3D Blu-ray is the only way I have of getting 3D content on my TV.

Some movies, it's just a gimmick, but some really benefit from it. In Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens, there's a brief scene where it looks like a model of a Star Destroyer is floating right in front of me, in my living room; like I can almost reach out and touch it.

It seems that the industry, last I knew, was still putting out at least the better movies on 3D BluRay, but nobody has made 3D-capable TVs for a long time. For this reason, when/if my present TV does fail, I will probably feel very motivated to try to get it repaired, rather than throwing it away and buying another.

Interesting, the few rare times I go to as movie theatre, the last three or four movies I saw at a theater were in 3D, and the glasses that they give you at the theater turn out to be compatible with my TV.

 

[Godboy]

Funny, when I bought my 60" HDTV I have now, I think I paid about $1300 for it on sale going out of business at Circuit City in 2009.

LED TVs are that much cheaper now. There are many good ~60" TVs now for like $500-$800!

I just doubt that mine will be a Samsung. Most likely a Sony Bravia.

The Sony Bravias are good too, but when I go to a store and look at them side by side, I find that the Samsung's in the same price range look a little bit better. You also get a slight upcharge just for the Sony name alone.

 

[petro]

It seems I am replacing our television every five years before they die. Might as well be made by Bic.
How good is this for the environment when current technology is basically disposable?
My grandparents had one of the old relic televisions that lasted decades, because they were repaired at relatively low cost.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It seems I am replacing our television every five years before they die. Might as well be made by Bic.
How good is this for the environment when current technology is basically disposable?
My grandparents had one of the old relic televisions that lasted decades, because they were repaired at relatively low cost.

I don't think I've ever had any television for such a short time. My current TV, the only modern non-CRT-based one that I've ever had, we got in 2011 (not 2010 as I previously reported—I just found the receipt, stapled to the owner's manual, as I was trying to find the model number). It's a Vizio E3D420VX.

Its predecessor was a 20ʺ CRT-based TV that I bought at Sears, in 2000. we gave it away, to someone who was in need of a TV, when we bought the Vizio. I don't remember for sure, but I think it was a Panasonic. It was in perfectly fine shape, at that point, and probably would have lasted us at least another decade, but my wife really wanted a more modern TV.

It's predecessor was a former hospital TV from the hospital where my father worked, a Zenith. He'd had it for many years, before he gave it to me, and I had it for many years. I don't remember what happened to it, that I needed to replace it, but it had certainly lasted a good long time, and had seen a lot of service. Between my father and me, it surely lasted well over a decade, and I have no idea how long it was in use at the hospital before they got rid of it.

 

[toobfreak]

60,000 hours? That's a LOT of sittin! I am far too busy to sit and watch that much TV!

Well, it is better to leave a DLP TV on once you turn it on rather than switching it on and off all of the time because they run off of a high intensity mercury lamp that has to heat up, so the TV is often on for hours whether I'm actually watching it or not! Nevertheless, the TV probably has that many hours operating time with only one service call all of that time and my 1980s TV likely has even more with no service calls all that time as I leave it on all night while I sleep, but the picture tube is starting to get weak and isn't as bright anymore as when new, but that's not a problem as I only use it at night anyway.

 

[toobfreak]

Hitachi made great tvs for years

Back in the day, they were considered the very best by video experts, but stores didn't carry or sell a lot of them because they were expensive compared to other brands. But then, mine is still working after all these years. My Hitachi was actually built to double as a monitor with the speakers recessed into the sides designed to reflect the sound out into the room, so, if you only wanted it as a monitor for like in a pro video studio, you could install it in a tight compartment with nothing but a minimal footprint to see the screen.

 

[toobfreak]

They definitely make electronics very differently than they used to; and as you've observed, in large part, they are not made to be repaired.

Years ago, it would have been unthinkable and business suicide not to make your product reparable. Most of the time, good companies went to great lengths and added cost making their products easily serviceable, so in that sense, that old stuff while big, heavy and power hungry might have actually been greener than printed circuits that all just get scraped into a landfill. And the old stuff was much more all metal which breaks down instead of all plastic that remains forever.

Here's one of my prized possessions, the crown jewel of my meager collection of vintage electronics.

That's an old friend, a classic tubed Tektronix dual input scope, probably 20 meg bandwidth. I use a somewhat newer Hewlett-Packard solid state dual input analog storage scope.

I have a lot of vintage electronics as I build and service a lot of my own stereo equipment and have a room full of vintage tube and a little solid state audio equipment as well as shelves and shelves full of vintage test equipment including an inductive DC current probe capable of detecting nano-amperes of leakage. And I am just a piker compared to an old friend I once had before he passed away. In fact, my moniker is in honor of him.

In the picture is even a counter using a nixie tube display, my favorite and the best display ever of all time. But one of my real jewels is this Philips transistorized VOM. It is the only VOM to ever utilize a linear display with consistent accuracy and resolution end to end full scale instead of the typical log scale which lost accuracy and resolution at either end of its scale. I bought the meter off of Fluke in 1995 as the Philips importer and back then, it sold new for $550 I think, astronomical for a VOM compared to a Simpson or the like which was a fraction of the price, but there is nothing else like it.

And unlike other VOMs with low Z like 20K, this meter was a 10 meg input.

 

[toobfreak]

Its predecessor was a 20ʺ CRT-based TV that I bought at Sears, in 2000. we gave it away, to someone who was in need of a TV, when we bought the Vizio. I don't remember for sure, but I think it was a Panasonic. I

Panasonics (also called Prism) were premium units built to last.

It's predecessor was a former hospital TV from the hospital where my father worked, a Zenith. He'd had it for many years, before he gave it to me, and I had it for many years.

Yep, hospitals were big on Zeniths and Sylvanias, I had a Zenith Chromacolor 19" as my first color TV and it was great. It was great growing up with B&W TV and seeing color TV for the first time (I think I saw my first one in the late 60s)--- it was like seeing magic.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Years ago, it would have been unthinkable and business suicide not to make your product reparable. Most of the time, good companies went to great lengths and added cost making their products easily serviceable, so in that sense, that old stuff while big, heavy and power hungry might have actually been greener than printed circuits that all just get scraped into a landfill. And the old stuff was much more all metal which breaks down instead of all plastic that remains forever.

I mentioned Curtis Mathes, earlier. In its day, it was the Rolls Royce of televisions. (That was back when describing anything as the “Rolls Royce” of its kind meant a lot more than it does today. Now, Rolls Royce automobiles are actually BMWs, with no real connection to the heritage of the older Rolls Royce automobiles. Bentleys are the closest thing to true heirs to the Rolls Royce motorcar legacy, being built in the same factory, by the same operation, that used to make Rolls Royce automobiles, but that is now all owned by Volkswagen. In much the same way, the Curtis Mathes name is now cut off from its once-great heritage.)

Curtis Mathes made a big deal of making their televisions easy to repair. They were built in modules, so that a service technician would arrive, in a truck stocked with all the different modules, just had to identify the bad module in a failing TV, swap in a good one, and be on his way.

I do get that there is a good reason why many modern electronics are not nearly so repairable any more, and perhaps why it might not even make much sense to try to manufacture them for reparability. The technology has advanced an almost unimaginable degree from that of the 1960s and 1970s or even 1980s. The Apple ][ computer that I had in the 1980s was more sophisticated than the computers that we used to put men on the Moon, but it was nothing compared to computers that were already coming out in the 1980s, which are nothing compared to almost any modern electronic device today. The Apple ][ has every chip in a socket, so if one failed, it was a simple matter to diagnose which chip was bad, and to replace it. I am sure that some of the chips in my Apple ][ has more sophistication in just one chip, than my Oscilloscope has in the entire device, and today, one chip contains more sophistication, by at least a few orders of magnitude, than my entire Apple ][ had.

And more chips crammed into smaller spaces means different ways that the chips are mounted to the circuit board. No more chips in sockets, that can easily be swapped out. No more chips even soldered in the traditional manner, where someone with a modicum can unsolder a chip, and solder in a replacement.


Here's a joke from the 1970s or 1980s, that you will surely get, but few would, today:

Three computer company employees are riding in a taxi, when taxi gets a flat tire. The driver asks the passengers to have a look.

The first passenger, a computer programmer gets out, walks around the car, kicks the float tire, and says to the driver, “That's a hardware problem. I can't help you.”

The second passenger, a sales representative, gets out, and has a look. “Your car is broken.”, he says. “You need to buy a new car.”

The third passenger, a hardware technician, gets out. Unlike his two colleagues, he knows exactly what to do. He gets out the spare tire, lug wrench, and jack, and starts swapping out the tires until he finds the bad one.

 

[toobfreak]

I mentioned Curtis Mathes, earlier. In its day, it was the Rolls Royce of televisions. (That was back when describing anything as the “Rolls Royce” of its kind meant a lot more than it does today. Now, Rolls Royce automobiles are actually BMWs, with no real connection to the heritage of the older Rolls Royce automobiles. Bentleys are the closest thing to true heirs to the Rolls Royce motorcar legacy, being built in the same factory, by the same operation, that used to make Rolls Royce automobiles, but that is now all owned by Volkswagen. In much the same way, the Curtis Mathes name is now cut off from its once-great heritage.)

Curtis Mathes made a big deal of making their televisions easy to repair. They were built in modules, so that a service technician would arrive, in a truck stocked with all the different modules, just had to identify the bad module in a failing TV, swap in a good one, and be on his way.

I do get that there is a good reason why many modern electronics are not nearly so repairable any more, and perhaps why it might not even make much sense to try to manufacture them for reparability. The technology has advanced an almost unimaginable degree from that of the 1960s and 1970s or even 1980s. The Apple ][ computer that I had in the 1980s was more sophisticated than the computers that we used to put men on the Moon, but it was nothing compared to computers that were already coming out in the 1980s, which are nothing compared to almost any modern electronic device today. The Apple ][ has every chip in a socket, so if one failed, it was a simple matter to diagnose which chip was bad, and to replace it. I am sure that some of the chips in my Apple ][ has more sophistication in just one chip, than my Oscilloscope has in the entire device, and today, one chip contains more sophistication, by at least a few orders of magnitude, than my entire Apple ][ had.

And more chips crammed into smaller spaces means different ways that the chips are mounted to the circuit board. No more chips in sockets, that can easily be swapped out. No more chips even soldered in the traditional manner, where someone with a modicum can unsolder a chip, and solder in a replacement.


Here's a joke from the 1970s or 1980s, that you will surely get, but few would, today:

Three computer company employees are riding in a taxi, when taxi gets a flat tire. The driver asks the passengers to have a look.

The first passenger, a computer programmer gets out, walks around the car, kicks the float tire, and says to the driver, “That's a hardware problem. I can't help you.”

The second passenger, a sales representative, gets out, and has a look. “Your car is broken.”, he says. “You need to buy a new car.”

The third passenger, a hardware technician, gets out. Unlike his two colleagues, he knows exactly what to do. He gets out the spare tire, lug wrench, and jack, and starts swapping out the tires until he finds the bad one.

I think what did Curtis Mathes under was three things:

1. The father and son owners died and those remaining just weren't invested with vision.
2. The TVs were over-engineered the way I like stuff to be, but it meant far more investment in time and cost for the company to make things that simple and serviceable just to save the consumer and repairman time and money making it so fixable while also costing yourself sales of new sets.
3. They were simply unprepared for the deluge of cheap, Asian, throwaway products.

But I at least have some good news. My video gear has shrunken over the years and having assessed my exact needs now, it looks to me that I can make due with a TV that has at least four HDMI inputs, one composite input, and preferably, one analog audio line level output.

 

[Mushroom]

I do get that there is a good reason why many modern electronics are not nearly so repairable any more, and perhaps why it might not even make much sense to try to manufacture them for reparability. The technology has advanced an almost unimaginable degree from that of the 1960s and 1970s or even 1980s.

A lot of that is also simply the change in technology.

Even into the 1980s, it was not unusual to find televisions with vacuum tubes (valves). And almost every supermarket and large grocery store had a machine for testing tubes in case one went bad.

And if anybody with no skills in electronics could open their TV, remove the tubes, test them and replace any that went bad and put it all back together again. I was doing this myself by the time I was 10. However, when "solid state" electronics replaced tubes, this ability to "fix it yourself" was no longer possible. And as skilled technicians were so expensive the drive was on to make the equipment as cheap as possible, until we got to the point today where it is unfixable by almost anybody. You simply throw it away and buy a new one.

And I have seen the same thing myself when I had a computer store. Somebody would bring in a $300 netbook computer with a problem (normally a broken power connector as they would try to move it while plugged in), and get a bit upset when I told them to just throw it away and buy a new one. As with my bench rate and at least 2 to 3 hours of labor it was simply better to get a new one than try to fix such a low cost item. Or even better, actually buy a quality one to start with that would be worth investing the money to fix if it broke.

And yes, things were unquestionably "built to last" in the past. My grandmother's old RCA floor console TV is still in the living room, circa 1990 and still works. But it is only a stand for the 55" flat screen. And when I joined the Army in 2007 I gave away an amazing Quasar TV that had at least a dozen inputs and outputs in the back. An early 1990s model, and top of the line at over $1,200 when new. But today the market demands cheap goods that are easily replaced instead of quality goods that can last forever with only occasional maintenance.

And this has been the trend for decades in all areas. Just try to find a business near you that does TV repair (or even more rare - one that goes to your house). Or watch repair. Or a cobbler. Consumers simply do not care about quality, they predominantly purchase based on price. And when something does break, are far more likely to just throw it away and buy a new one.

 

[toobfreak]

Even into the 1980s, it was not unusual to find televisions with vacuum tubes (valves). And almost every supermarket and large grocery store had a machine for testing tubes in case one went bad.

I have a portable tube tester. Really an essential tool for anyone serious about tubes.

However, when "solid state" electronics replaced tubes, this ability to "fix it yourself" was no longer possible.

What many people don't realize is that tubes are not obsolete. Not only are there still many professional applications where there is no SS equivalent that can handle the power, but while you won't find tubes in consumer appliances anymore, the tube remains the superior device for analog music amplification still found in endless high end audio brands and pro musical instrument amps.

 

[Mushroom]

I have a portable tube tester. Really an essential tool for anyone serious about tubes.

But when was the last time you saw a tube tester "in the wild"? I can't remember seeing one past the 1980s.

What many people don't realize is that tubes are not obsolete. Not only are there still many professional applications where there is no SS equivalent that can handle the power, but while you won't find tubes in consumer appliances anymore, the tube remains the superior device for analog music amplification still found in endless high end audio brands and pro musical instrument amps.

Oh, in this I agree. There is still a high demand for tubes in professional level audio equipment, especially amplifiers. I worked at a pawn shop in the early 1990s, and we constantly had professionals coming in only to look at the tube amps, they would not even consider a solid state one.

And they still make them, real audiophiles praise them for their "warmer" and more vibrant sounds. But this is now very much the area of specialists and niche, as a modern tube amp will likely set you back over $2,000. Fender, Marshall and others all still make classic tube amps to this day. But they are significantly more expensive than the solid state ones of the same range and output.

But they left the home market about 4 or 5 decades ago. You can't even get a decent component system anymore, they are all just cheap all-in-one units with subquality parts that are made as cheap as possible. I still remember my frustration about 2 decades ago when I was tasked with building a "budget" DJ system for a club, and realizing that nobody had made stand alone CD and tape decks since the mid-1990s. All I was finding was crappy all in one home stereos with those horrible 5 disk turntables.

 

[toobfreak]

But when was the last time you saw a tube tester "in the wild"?

Why would you see a tube tester now? Those store machines took up valuable space and there is no demand for them these days by the consumer.

Oh, in this I agree. There is still a high demand for tubes in professional level audio equipment, especially amplifiers. I worked at a pawn shop in the early 1990s, and we constantly had professionals coming in only to look at the tube amps, they would not even consider a solid state one.

For good reason. Tubes naturally have complimentary harmonic structure to their sound whereas SS generates an abrasive one that musicians would be particularly sensitive to.

But this is now very much the area of specialists and niche, as a modern tube amp will likely set you back over $2,000. Fender, Marshall and others all still make classic tube amps to this day. But they are significantly more expensive than the solid state ones of the same range and output.

That was one of the impetuses for solid state: cheaper, lighter, smaller and less power consumption, not better sound. In other words, transistors offered companies more profit margin, much like the main reasons for abandoning LPs for CDs. It took a few decades but consumers are realizing now that the CD doesn't have the realism and musicality of an LP. Tube gear is serious stuff. Circuits with often 400 volts and higher, and a lot more maintenance and know-how needed.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

A lot of that is also simply the change in technology.

Even into the 1980s, it was not unusual to find televisions with vacuum tubes (valves). And almost every supermarket and large grocery store had a machine for testing tubes in case one went bad.

And if anybody with no skills in electronics could open their TV, remove the tubes, test them and replace any that went bad and put it all back together again. I was doing this myself by the time I was 10. However, when "solid state" electronics replaced tubes, this ability to "fix it yourself" was no longer possible. And as skilled technicians were so expensive the drive was on to make the equipment as cheap as possible, until we got to the point today where it is unfixable by almost anybody. You simply throw it away and buy a new one.

And I have seen the same thing myself when I had a computer store. Somebody would bring in a $300 netbook computer with a problem (normally a broken power connector as they would try to move it while plugged in), and get a bit upset when I told them to just throw it away and buy a new one. As with my bench rate and at least 2 to 3 hours of labor it was simply better to get a new one than try to fix such a low cost item. Or even better, actually buy a quality one to start with that would be worth investing the money to fix if it broke.

And yes, things were unquestionably "built to last" in the past. My grandmother's old RCA floor console TV is still in the living room, circa 1990 and still works. But it is only a stand for the 55" flat screen. And when I joined the Army in 2007 I gave away an amazing Quasar TV that had at least a dozen inputs and outputs in the back. An early 1990s model, and top of the line at over $1,200 when new. But today the market demands cheap goods that are easily replaced instead of quality goods that can last forever with only occasional maintenance.

And this has been the trend for decades in all areas. Just try to find a business near you that does TV repair (or even more rare - one that goes to your house). Or watch repair. Or a cobbler. Consumers simply do not care about quality, they predominantly purchase based on price. And when something does break, are far more likely to just throw it away and buy a new one.

I remember that all Thrifty's stores (now called Rite Aid) used to have tube testers like that.

I have this: