CDZ Can you be rational?

[PaintMyHouse]

The much more valuable life in this case is the one that can, within a year, replace the other one. All lives are not equal. Brutal, but rational.

But if all lives are not equal, how can we be sure the child she theoretically has will be "superior" (for lack of a better word) to the one we let die? We could still be facing a net loss of value.

Yep.

 

[MarathonMike]

The only scenario that I can think of "speed of replacement" being of higher value is with a farm or collective that depends on child labor. Otherwise I disagree with you, their lives are equal in value.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The only scenario that I can think of "speed of replacement" being of higher value is with a farm or collective that depends on child labor. Otherwise I disagree with you, their lives are equal in value.

Nope. not even close.

 

[320 Years of History]

The much more valuable life in this case is the one that can, within a year, replace the other one. All lives are not equal. Brutal, but rational.

But if all lives are not equal, how can we be sure the child she theoretically has will be "superior" (for lack of a better word) to the one we let die? We could still be facing a net loss of value.

We can't, but interjecting that sort of thing is outside the rules of the "game"/scenario the OP presented. One must work off of(1) what's given and (2) what isn't expressly stated but that is nonetheless universally and objectively undeniable.

 

[Elvis Obama]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since you do not state that the person I choose not to save will die, the obvious choice is the infant. The teenager has a chance to save herself, therefore creating the possibility that both will live.

I don't accept the rationale that the female, being closer to reproductive age, is more worthy of being saved. Based on what? The amount of food and other resources that have been expended on her to date? The male has the greater chance to preserve genetic diversity.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since you do not state that the person I choose not to save will die, the obvious choice is the infant. The teenager has a chance to save herself, therefore creating the possibility that both will live.

I don't accept the rationale that the female, being closer to reproductive age, is more worthy of being saved. Based on what? The amount of food and other resources that have been expended on her to date? The male has the greater chance to preserve genetic diversity.

Fine, and, you fail at being rational. TY.

 

[xband]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call that an act of God. I am not going to jump into the fire to save a burning baby.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call that an act of God. I am not going to jump into the fire to save a burning baby.

A car about to explode is an Act of God? No.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I would save the teenager because she is the larger of the two societal investments

 

[xband]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call that an act of God. I am not going to jump into the fire to save a burning baby.

A car about to explode is an Act of God? No.

Of course it is when God made Man his favorite creature.

 

[Muhammed]

The car is in front of me and about to explode. I'll save the one I can get to first, which given only the information provided means the infant because he's (1) closer and (2) still presumably alive (given the scenario's constraints and stipulations -- there's no choice about which to save if the infant is dead when I get to the car) when I get there. Time is critical and immutable, and I don't know when the car will explode. Extra half second I may take to get the girl may result in all three of us dying; I can't know if it will or won't. I see as my goal to doing what I can, and not killing myself in the process, regardless of whether I have a basis -- rational or not -- for preferring to save the boy or the girl.

Perhaps as I'm freeing the infant, I can talk the girl through a way out under her own power? Given the info provided, I can't say whether that'd be possible or not, let alone effective.

The above is my answer given only the information available. Can I sit here and "armchair quarterback" around all sorts of unstipulated elements like whether I can shout at the girl and get her to open her door or the rear door, how much time will it take to unsecure the boy from the child safety seat or the seat from the car seat belts, etc? Sure, I can; anyone can. But you said the only info is that which you provided; thus what basis have I for assuming anything not expressly stated and not assuredly assumable, such as the passage of time? Even there, did you state the car was facing forward? No, there's one assumption I made in making my choice.

Your attempt to change the conditions of the test has failed.

??? What test condition did I change?

I deleted that. You did not so much try to change the test as work much too hard trying to explain your answer, which is wrong.

What's wrong about it?

The much more valuable life in this case is the one that can, within a year, replace the other one. All lives are not equal. Brutal, but rational.

How do you know she isn't sterile?

Also, if you think humans should be eliminated from the Earth, why would you save either one of them.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call that an act of God. I am not going to jump into the fire to save a burning baby.

A car about to explode is an Act of God? No.

Of course it is when God made Man his favorite creature.

And with that nothing more need be said. Irrational to the core.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Your attempt to change the conditions of the test has failed.

??? What test condition did I change?

I deleted that. You did not so much try to change the test as work much too hard trying to explain your answer, which is wrong.

What's wrong about it?

The much more valuable life in this case is the one that can, within a year, replace the other one. All lives are not equal. Brutal, but rational.

How do you know she isn't sterile?

You don't, nor does it matter in this case.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I would save the teenager because she is the larger of the two societal investments

Fine. TY.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here's another reason to save the teen:

The infant would succumb to the fire much more quickly than the teen and she would suffer far more horribly what's more she would be aware of her fate where the infant wouldn't be.

 

[xband]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I call that an act of God. I am not going to jump into the fire to save a burning baby.

A car about to explode is an Act of God? No.

Of course it is when God made Man his favorite creature.

And with that nothing more need be said. Irrational to the core.

Called Prisoner's Dilemma in Psychology. Basically hooray for me and fuck them.

 

[Two Thumbs]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The girl.

B/c I tell her to grab the boy as I'm running twards her

 

[xband]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The girl.

B/c I tell her to grab the boy as I'm running twards her

risk assessment

 

[PaintMyHouse]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The girl.

B/c I tell her to grab the boy as I'm running twards her

TY, and you fail.

 

[Two Thumbs]

To be a truly rational thinker you have to be able to make decisions based on very limited information and back up your reasoning. "I'm not sure why" or "I don't know" doesn't count.

A test (and feel free to post your own of course):

In front of you is a burning car about to explode. There are two people in the car, a teenage girl in the front and an infant boy in the back. You can save only one. Who is the most rational one to save, and why?

You cannot change the conditions of the test and that's all the information you have to go on. Points if you even attempt an answer (most won't)...


FYI:

"Socratic method, also known as maieutics, method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate, is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates. Elenchus is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is introduced by Socrates in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding."
Socratic method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The girl.

B/c I tell her to grab the boy as I'm running twards her

risk assessment

logical reasoning and some training.

reality is, I would have no idea that the care was going to explode, since in reality, they don't.