CDZ Can we have a serious discussion of how to fix the Affordable Care Act?

[Fair&Balanced]

Well this thread failed.

Have fun.

Failed ? Oh you mean everyone didn't agree with you?

 

[2aguy]

This thread exemplifies the biggest problem facing the ACA. A whole lot of people want to sabotage it, and are willing to bring as much pain down as they possibly can upon American citizens to do so.

No one has to sabotage it......it is designed to fail....and it is......

The government running medicine will end like all other programs run by government....they can't even take care of military veterans with decent care and they are a tiny minority of the population.........so how do you guys think they can take care of the healthcare of 320,000,000 people....

only the left thinks that you can screw up medical care through the V.A..............and then expect to do it better when you are making it bigger.......

See, I'm a vet and I would do away with the VA , PERIOD. I'll see my private doctor thank you, the VA can simply pay the bill. Done.

Exactly......all military veterans should be able to go to any doctor they want and have the fee picked up...that should be the deal...their families too..........

But, that isn't what the left wants..........they want control of the healthcare system for the power of it..........

 

[JimBowie1958]

Why the hell didnt they just take the few million people who had no insurance and put them on Medicaid and leave every one else the hell alone? Assuming you believe the government should be providing health insurance at alll, that is..

I have often wondered that myself, but I think that they were trying to harness the private sector to make more efficient options through competition, and there just hasnt been the demand to accomplish that.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It was and is an idiotic attempt to get single payer by blackmail that took a very bad situation and made it much worse as it was designed to do.

A great many people are benefiting from ACA, mostly the poor, but the Middle Class is getting kicked in the teeth again.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Failed ? Oh you mean everyone didn't agree with you?

Liberals seem to not have much tolerance for any criticism of their own programs.

 

[Boss]

The ACA was govt's. way of subsidizing the insurance industry, at least at the corporate level, and the for profit medical industry, again at the corporate level...

No, it was the Liberal Democrats way of grandstanding and claiming some kind of "social victory" or something. It had the effects you describe but that's because those are the people who wrote the damn thing.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Step 1: Get the 50% of U.S. politicians doing their best to sabotage it to stop

^ typical liberal "those who disagree with our ideas should just shut up"

IF you cant debate then shout the other side down.

If that fails take your toys and go home.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Why the hell didnt they just take the few million people who had no insurance and put them on Medicaid and leave every one else the hell alone? Assuming you believe the government should be providing health insurance at alll, that is..

I have often wondered that myself, but I think that they were trying to harness the private sector to make more efficient options through competition, and there just hasnt been the demand to accomplish that.

There was NEVER going to be enough demand and EVERYONE told them that. The entire pyramid scheme was predicated on young , healthy people being able, and willing, to pay HUGE premiums that would somehow magically convince insurance companies to lower premiums overall , with the government subsidizing everyone else.

Young, healthy people looked at a $1K a month premium and said "no thanks, I'll pay the fine and sign up if something happens, because now I can't be denied , so why have insurance before I need it?"

 

[Dekster]

What do you think could be done, reasonably to reform the ACA?

1. Remove the smoker penalty. We should try to get them into doctors earlier and more regularly instead of penalizing them, including preventative rounds of radiation treatment before they develop lung cancer (yes they do that).

2. The bronze plans should be abolished. Someone who can only afford a low premium policy will never afford a huge co-pay deductible. The system forces those people into CH13 instead of straight discharge CH7 bankruptcies.

3. Reduce the paperwork compliance confusion that may or may not apply and may or apply to some but not to others depending how connected you are in DC.

4. Allow mom and pop business owners to buy into medicare advantage plans regardless of how old they are if their annual revenue is less than some ceiling--say $75K--or create a single payer quasi-public insurer that people can buy into regardless of where they live (i.e. medicare by another name).

5. Transaction tax on ever stock exchange that is earmarked directly to #4

6. Make common antibiotics and antivirals OTC with consultation by the pharmacist to decide if it is appropriate for the complaints with a federal tax on those OTC's dedicated to fund new antibiotic/antiviral research.


Just some of the first ideas that come to mind.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The failure of ACA is absolute and there is no fixing it. The worst part is, I believe that Obama and Democrats KNEW it wouldn't work and passed it anyway . Remember the "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it" bullshit? That woman should have been executed on the spot for treason.

I dont think it is a total failure as people are getting health insurance through the law.

But what would you do with the millions of people on it if you just toss it out?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Why the hell didnt they just take the few million people who had no insurance and put them on Medicaid and leave every one else the hell alone? Assuming you believe the government should be providing health insurance at alll, that is..

I have often wondered that myself, but I think that they were trying to harness the private sector to make more efficient options through competition, and there just hasnt been the demand to accomplish that.

There was NEVER going to be enough demand and EVERYONE told them that. The entire pyramid scheme was predicated on young , healthy people being able, and willing, to pay HUGE premiums that would somehow magically convince insurance companies to lower premiums overall , with the government subsidizing everyone else.

Young, healthy people looked at a $1K a month premium and said "no thanks, I'll pay the fine and sign up if something happens, because now I can't be denied , so why have insurance before I need it?"

They need some cheaper options to get the young healthy people who are immortal to buy into it.

 

[320 Years of History]

What do you think could be done, reasonably to reform the ACA?

• Offer coverage and premiums commensurate with the various groups of people who may need coverage:
  • Offer gender based insurance policies --> All insurers must offer policies tailored to men and to women. Prices reflect the commensurate risk/cost associated with gender.
  • Offer health condition based insurance policies --> All insurers must offer policies based around a handful of health status levels.
  • Offer age based insurance policies --> All insurers must offer policies segmented by age.
  • The combination of gender, age, and health status level should define the "group" policy type consumers may purchase.
  • I'm not sure what the implemented groups should be, but it's clear that consumers don't like being tossed into a group whereof the related premiums reflect the average actuarial risk and cost of covering the whole group, even though that's exactly the sort of coverage folks had (those who had it) before ACA.
• Allow all insurers to offer policies to anyone who may care to buy it.

Alternatively, the President, Congress and the insurance industry could "come clean" and together as one explain what objectively is the problem:

1. The estimates of the health status of the previously uninsured, and the nature and extent of uncovered conditions experienced by partially insured people, were wrong; those people's health needs were far more than was anticipated, and as a result, the premiums insurers are permitted to charge do not allow the insurance companies to earn their desired/targeted profit amounts.
2. Insurance is a gambler's business. It's very essence is that the insurer collects payments from the insured while wagering that the insured will not need as much paid out on their health care as they have paid in premiums. Just as a casio ejects card counters, insurance companies drop policy holders who cost more than the insurer wagered they would have to pay on the person's behalf.
3. Current insurance policies under ACA must include in their "groups" folks who heretofore were deemed by the insurance companies as too expensive to insure profitably. Consequently, rates have gone up or insurers have withdrawn from the program.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This thread exemplifies the biggest problem facing the ACA. A whole lot of people want to sabotage it, and are willing to bring as much pain down as they possibly can upon American citizens to do so.

This is the CDZ sir, try a more honest level of discourse, No one here wants to hurt or cause harm to Americans.

...never mind.

Some people still see the world as black and white, devils vrs angels and no one ever talks to the other side without being suspected of evil.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

The failure of ACA is absolute and there is no fixing it. The worst part is, I believe that Obama and Democrats KNEW it wouldn't work and passed it anyway . Remember the "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it" bullshit? That woman should have been executed on the spot for treason.

I dont think it is a total failure as people are getting health insurance through the law.

But what would you do with the millions of people on it if you just toss it out?

What would I have done?

I'll tell you what I would have done. I would have combined the entire stimulus bill with the ACA and a host of other programs the Democrats have championed over the course of many years, and I would have doubled down that by closing down ALL welfare programs, then I would have sent each family in this country $1M tax free to spend as they saw fit. With the admonishment that the government was forever out of the welfare business after those checks were issued.

 

[william the wie]

The failure of ACA is absolute and there is no fixing it. The worst part is, I believe that Obama and Democrats KNEW it wouldn't work and passed it anyway . Remember the "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it" bullshit? That woman should have been executed on the spot for treason.

I dont think it is a total failure as people are getting health insurance through the law.

But what would you do with the millions of people on it if you just toss it out?

not a gorcha but an honest question who actually benefits from it?

Those who were already on medicaid?

Those who were put on medicaid?

Those who game the program?

Those who have seen their medical options limited by the program?

I see only one set of beneficiaries and they are the cheats encouraged by the bill, everyone else has been harmed.

 

[Zander]

There is no way to fix it.

It's a clusterfuck that is FUBAR.

Toss it in the trash.

Then toss out any politician who voted for it.

 

[Dekster]

Why the hell didnt they just take the few million people who had no insurance and put them on Medicaid and leave every one else the hell alone? Assuming you believe the government should be providing health insurance at alll, that is..

I have often wondered that myself, but I think that they were trying to harness the private sector to make more efficient options through competition, and there just hasnt been the demand to accomplish that.

There was NEVER going to be enough demand and EVERYONE told them that. The entire pyramid scheme was predicated on young , healthy people being able, and willing, to pay HUGE premiums that would somehow magically convince insurance companies to lower premiums overall , with the government subsidizing everyone else.

Young, healthy people looked at a $1K a month premium and said "no thanks, I'll pay the fine and sign up if something happens, because now I can't be denied , so why have insurance before I need it?"

They need some cheaper options to get the young healthy people who are immortal to buy into it.

Bypass them. Make employers paying less than 300% of the poverty level contribute $1 to their insurance premium for every hour worked for employees 18-27 and make the policy mandatory and do away with bootstrapping onto the parents.

 

[Zander]

This thread exemplifies the biggest problem facing the ACA. A whole lot of people want to sabotage it, and are willing to bring as much pain down as they possibly can upon American citizens to do so.

This is the CDZ sir, try a more honest level of discourse, No one here wants to hurt or cause harm to Americans.

I am being very honest.

Premise of the thread: How to fix Obamacare
My reply: Get the people who are purposely sabotaging it to stop.

Give an example of this "sabotage" you speak of.

 

[Dekster]

The failure of ACA is absolute and there is no fixing it. The worst part is, I believe that Obama and Democrats KNEW it wouldn't work and passed it anyway . Remember the "we have to pass the bill to know what is in it" bullshit? That woman should have been executed on the spot for treason.

I dont think it is a total failure as people are getting health insurance through the law.

But what would you do with the millions of people on it if you just toss it out?

What would I have done?

I'll tell you what I would have done. I would have combined the entire stimulus bill with the ACA and a host of other programs the Democrats have championed over the course of many years, and I would have doubled down that by closing down ALL welfare programs, then I would have sent each family in this country $1M tax free to spend as they saw fit. With the admonishment that the government was forever out of the welfare business after those checks were issued.

Awesome idea until you wanted a sandwich and a loaf of bread costs $50.00

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Why the hell didnt they just take the few million people who had no insurance and put them on Medicaid and leave every one else the hell alone? Assuming you believe the government should be providing health insurance at alll, that is..

I have often wondered that myself, but I think that they were trying to harness the private sector to make more efficient options through competition, and there just hasnt been the demand to accomplish that.

There was NEVER going to be enough demand and EVERYONE told them that. The entire pyramid scheme was predicated on young , healthy people being able, and willing, to pay HUGE premiums that would somehow magically convince insurance companies to lower premiums overall , with the government subsidizing everyone else.

Young, healthy people looked at a $1K a month premium and said "no thanks, I'll pay the fine and sign up if something happens, because now I can't be denied , so why have insurance before I need it?"

They need some cheaper options to get the young healthy people who are immortal to buy into it.

Bypass them. Make employers paying less than 300% of the poverty level contribute $1 to their insurance premium for every hour worked for employees 18-27 and make the policy mandatory and do away with bootstrapping onto the parents.

why are employers expected to pay for ANY portion of their employees insurance?