Can someone show me ONE conservative ideal that has actually worked?

[Lonestar_logic]

Perhaps, perhaps not. You have no evidence that politicians of the 1780s could even adapt to our environment socially, culturally, and politically today. Can you imagine Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Mason, Lee and others even attending a Congress in which blacks and indians were members?

Yes I could imagine that happening in 2010.

Remember that you imagine that the reactionary right and Tea Party represaent a signficant portion of America, that somehow the movement is in touch with the larger American political will. How silly of you.
.
No, the Virginians, if transported from then to today, would have not sat with such a Congress. They would not have been able to get their collective personality around such a concept. You have nothing in their writings that you could even hope to peg an argument to
R

As I stated I believe the constitution to be a conservative writing.

If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself.
Benjamin Franklin

If you know how to spend less than you get, you have the philosopher's stone.
Benjamin Franklin

It's not tyranny we desire; it's a just, limited, federal government.
Alexander Hamilton

The great leading objects of the federal government, in which revenue is concerned, are to maintain domestic peace, and provide for the common defense.
Alexander Hamilton

The rights of persons, and the rights of property, are the objects, for the protection of which Government was instituted.
James Madison

As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights.
James Madison

No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent.
John Jay

Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty.
John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
John Adams

The happiness of society is the end of government.
John Adams

 

[American Horse]

I'm familiar with it.

If you mean the doctrine that all should be equal before the law- you end up back and Hegel and Locke and the rest of the major liberal philosophers the FF studied and based their views and the Constitution upon.

Eqality under the law is a part of it, but consider this aspect: The president does not rule the American people, he administers the laws that govern the lives of Americans.

But, but, but conservatives say he is "Hitler". You mean he doesn't have absolute power? What a bummer. I guess that means we are still "free".

That has not been said. There is some fear by some that he would promote a system that would be similar; the hitler signs when they show up are a metaphore for that idea. Did liberals when they protested against Bush really think he was literally Hitler?

 

[amrchaos]

First, please define the conservative ideology as either post or pre FDR, as conservatives today were classical liberals PRE-FDR.

No, conservatives of the past would be considered ultra-conservatives today.

Like George W Bush and Dick Cheney.They are not lib

 

[American Horse]

You will never get "conservative" ideas without an argument. The reason is because the entire philosophy is about maintaining the "status quo" and either "keeping things they way they are now, or returning to a previous time". The very definition of liberal is "change", the opposite of "conserve.

1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
4.
a. Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
b. Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
5. Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
6. Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.
7. Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.
n.
1. One favoring traditional views and values.
2. A supporter of political conservatism.
3. Conservative A member or supporter of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
4. Archaic A preservative agent or principle.

Cautious in everything except war. Conservatives love war.

Although I post here as a conservative, and vote in the manner of a conservative, I am actually a moderate.
My perspective comes from a long view of history; a very long view.

Conservatism and liberalism (in all their permutations) are the basic philosophies in human political systems. Between these two perspectives lies the universal tension of ideas: to change or not to change, and since some change is essential how should the change be manifested and how much to change?

The tension then, lies between these two over-arching philosophies of maintaining a governing system, and it’s improvement or evolution.

I claim to be a “Moderate” because I would not want to live in a society entirely conservative, nor would I one that was entirely liberal. Both situations would be dangerous to those living under them, and would be unsustainable; the reasons for that should be obvious. Both would self destruct by following the examples we can witness through out history.

Once the political system is set up, with its inherent institutions, it wants to preserve itself; conservatives want to maintain the status quo. Liberals demand constant change.

Evolution of the system is demanded because of changes that occur both outside and inside the governing system; if those changes are not managed or if they are refused for too long a crisis results. Think of the issue of slavery and the civil war.

If there is radical change, the destruction of the system is hastened. If the change is circumspect and deals appropriately with institutions the life of the system is prolonged.

The liberal mind sees humans as perfectible; they must be to keep pace with the need for change.
If Human beings are perfectible, then their system of government can be perfected. If radical change (unrestrained liberalism) is permitted, then the institutions are soon seen as being too slow to cope with that demand for change.

The conservative sees humans as flawed, seeing human nature as immutable. If they are flawed, then change must be gradual and carefully considered so that as many institutions as can be are kept intact.

The argument for change innately makes the statement that it is superior to the status quo, otherwise why change? The Liberal change comes from a “superior viewpoint” and is only meant to improve the system for the benefit of all its citizens, but especially those who are underdogs or suppressed by the system; its benefits are inarguable and those who oppose the change are obviously tools of reactionaries who have the most to gain by holding back change.

The conservative, far from being someone who wants to roll back, or return to the status quo ante is, inclined to accept change that improves the system, that preserves the institutions they are accustomed to and value. The conservative requires that the “rules” of the game be honored and that they continue in effect until whatever changes are called for are perceived to have been legitimately passed into law.

So it is a truism that conservatives seek to “conserve;” don’t look for too many changes to be initiated by ‘doctrinaire’ conservatives.

And it is also a truism that liberals seek to “change;” don’t look for too many rules and institutions to be respected by ‘doctrinaire’ liberals.

In the two party system – and the two party system is the final result of any efficient and efficacious ongoing political system which can accommodate reasonable change – the survival of the parties depends on promoting what they stand for; I.E. self promotion.

Well thought out change is change that includes values representing both sides in the political debate.

The argument that conservatives wish to return to the "status-quo-ante" is a specious argument. That philosophy would best be called “reactionary”

So the American system is best served when both sides have a voice in the change, and the change moves forward.

Conservatives cautious in everything but going to war? They love war?
Their willingness to go to war is a measure of the value they place on the institutions they live under.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes I could imagine that happening in 2010.

Remember that you imagine that the reactionary right and Tea Party represaent a signficant portion of America, that somehow the movement is in touch with the larger American political will. How silly of you.
.
No, the Virginians, if transported from then to today, would have not sat with such a Congress. They would not have been able to get their collective personality around such a concept. You have nothing in their writings that you could even hope to peg an argument to
R

As I stated I believe the constitution to be a conservative writing.

If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself.
Benjamin Franklin

If you know how to spend less than you get, you have the philosopher's stone.
Benjamin Franklin

It's not tyranny we desire; it's a just, limited, federal government.
Alexander Hamilton

The great leading objects of the federal government, in which revenue is concerned, are to maintain domestic peace, and provide for the common defense.
Alexander Hamilton

The rights of persons, and the rights of property, are the objects, for the protection of which Government was instituted.
James Madison

As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights.
James Madison

No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent.
John Jay

Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty.
John Adams

There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
John Adams

The happiness of society is the end of government.
John Adams

You are not stupid, so don't act as if you are. There is nothing you have written that would allow them to sit a modern-day Congress with people whom they did not consider their equals.

There is nothing in their writings that even preconceives the industrial and technological world that has transformed man's thinking.

Quit acting stupid when you are not.

 

[Toro]

Slavery!












Haha, just kidding.

Capitalism.