California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

[PredFan]

I say let them. If these idiots want to go to the local 7-11 and get thier abortions well, they are probably going to be democrats anyway and we don't need those morons breeding.

 

[Vox]

NP's can be certified midwives, and childbirth is way more dangerous than abortion.

Hence, it's illogical and insane to claim NP's are unqualified to do the much safer abortion procedures.

above is certified militant ignorance. Childbirth is way safer than abortion, because it is natural. Abortion is unnatural and therefore much more risky.
Giving birth under the supervision of a midwife in a hospital has been done for ages. Abortions have not been performed by nurses - nurses are not trained to make a medical judgement and it is often needed when performing surgery.

Vox, WelfareQueen, why do you hate women so much that you'd allow NP's to be midwives? Is it that you want women to die?

are you off haloperidol? what does this incoherent blubber supposed to mean?

The kooks, even the "health care professionals", don't seem to know even the most basic facts about medical abortions and childbirth. Such as how easy and safe a vacuum aspiration abortion is. But then, if they weren't dogshit ignorant of the facts, they wouldn't be pro-lifers.

the propagandist male chouvinistic left does not know anything either about abortion or anatomy or physiology of a woman and a human being. their ignorant definition that a baby in utero is not a human being but a "cluster of cells" is the best proof of the total ignorance.

Of course, pro-lifers are the crowd that created Dr. Gosnell. He's the pro-life poster boy, and the goal of pro-lifers is to create more Dr. Gosnells. Once you make it impossible for good clinics to exist, hacks step in to fill the void. Pro-lifers adore that, since they fully approve of abortion as long as it's humiliating and dangerous. Vox proved that with this line.

typical leftard blabbing while in ostrich position of denial

Most pro-life liars don't give a shit about life. Never have. They're mainly just a bunch of sicko pervs who get off on punishing women.

blah-blah-blah-blah

 

[politicalnot]

Yep. Ole Kermit would be proud of you. Perhaps you'll find a woman needing your untrained hands to perform an abortion in California someday. You'll feel all giddy inside as you end a life not yet begun and perhaps maybe the poor woman's as well.

Gosnell was a licensed medical doctor. He still did horrible harm to his adult patients (The only issue that matters.) That kind of defeats your argument.

Here's the thing. Most abortions are performed between 8-12 weeks. You guys go on and on about the late term abortions that almost kind of look like a baby, but that's less than 1% of abortions performed, and usually for good medical reasons.

Fact is, trained nurse practioner is as qualified to perform an early abortion as she is to perform thousands of other medical procedures that they do every day.

I mean, shit, you guys don't get upset when midwives deliver babies, even though they aren't doctors.

This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Total BS. I know many PA's that put doctors to SHAME> Just because you have MD,DO behind your name doesn't mean you can do shit. Most can't manage a typical everyday patient for diabetes, heart problems, etc.

There are PA's out there that are MORE competent than most doctors. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE and the will to learn goes a long long way.

Nurse Practioners aren't on the same level as PA's in most cases. They are way more specialized generally than a PA. Nurse Practitioners are the same way and can be more competent than a doctor given experience.

I've worked around healthcare for many years. The FIRST thing you should ask a healthcare professional is where in their class they graduated. I'll take the top PA student over the bottom half of the medical class every damn time.

Give me a PA with an ER certification on his license and I"ll take him over a general practitioner every time if I'm having a heart attack.

 

[Vox]

Gosnell was a licensed medical doctor. He still did horrible harm to his adult patients (The only issue that matters.) That kind of defeats your argument.

Here's the thing. Most abortions are performed between 8-12 weeks. You guys go on and on about the late term abortions that almost kind of look like a baby, but that's less than 1% of abortions performed, and usually for good medical reasons.

Fact is, trained nurse practioner is as qualified to perform an early abortion as she is to perform thousands of other medical procedures that they do every day.

I mean, shit, you guys don't get upset when midwives deliver babies, even though they aren't doctors.

This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Total BS. I know many PA's that put doctors to SHAME> Just because you have MD,DO behind your name doesn't mean you can do shit. Most can't manage a typical everyday patient for diabetes, heart problems, etc.

There are PA's out there that are MORE competent than most doctors. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE and the will to learn goes a long long way.

Nurse Practioners aren't on the same level as PA's in most cases. They are way more specialized generally than a PA. Nurse Practitioners are the same way and can be more competent than a doctor given experience.

I've worked around healthcare for many years. The FIRST thing you should ask a healthcare professional is where in their class they graduated. I'll take the top PA student over the bottom half of the medical class every damn time.

Give me a PA with an ER certification on his license and I"ll take him over a general practitioner every time if I'm having a heart attack.

total bullshit of an ignorant militant.
There are no PAs which are better than doctors, neither there are NPs of the category - as they are NEVER on the same level of training and responsibility. It is like comparing a kettle and a bottle. Both are holding water but serve different purposes.
Both NPs and PAs work under supervision of MD or DO.
They may boast in front of you how important they are ( if they are insecure in their abilities and have some internal complexes) but the ones which are REALLY good - will never do that as they are so good that they KNOW their limitations.
The ones which are considering themselves equal or better than physicians - are simply fail to know what they don't know
Stay away from them.

 

[g5000]

Abortions have not been performed by nurses - nurses are not trained to make a medical judgement and it is often needed when performing surgery.

The bill does not authorize nurses to perform surgical abortions. Only non-surgical ones. It authorizes them to perform aspirations or administer abortifacients after certification for those methods.

 

[PredFan]

So let's see, back in the late 60s and early 70s we were told that we had to make abortion legal because we had to get the women out of the back allies and back rooms and get them to doctors to save their lives. Now we are told that they should be allowed to have abortions without doctors. You liberals are an insane bunch.

 

[Vox]

Abortions have not been performed by nurses - nurses are not trained to make a medical judgement and it is often needed when performing surgery.

The bill does not authorize nurses to perform surgical abortions. Only non-surgical ones.

in order to take morning-after pill one does not need anybody else except pharmacist.

I won't advice anybody to get a chemical abortion. Too risky. If you need one - go for a surgical in a surgicenter.

 

[Vox]

So let's see, back in the late 60s and early 70s we were told that we had to make abortion legal because we had to get the women out of the back allies and back rooms and get them to doctors to save their lives. Now we are told that they should be allowed to have abortions without doctors. You liberals are an insane bunch.

we made the glorious circle and ended where we started - now legalizing back alley ones to save costs

 

[Vox]

Abortions have not been performed by nurses - nurses are not trained to make a medical judgement and it is often needed when performing surgery.

The bill does not authorize nurses to perform surgical abortions. Only non-surgical ones. It authorizes them to perform aspirations or administer abortifacients after certification for those methods.

aspiration IS a surgical abortion.

gosh, people, you are stupid.

not mean to be offensive - but you are simply ignorant.

If you get in and disrupt the tissue - it IS surgery.

 

[Sunshine]

This post is wrong and ignorant in every respect. This person is completely talking out of their ass. Period. I am a master level health care profession. I work in a big city ER. Nurse Practitioners are not trained to do abortions and are not trained to perform "thousands of medical procedures." A NP or PA is a mid-level adjunct to a Physician that in most medical contexts works directly under the supervision of an MD. In ER's the only "procedures" a NP or PA does is put in stitches. That's it.

They diagnosis and treat minor to moderate healthcare aliments. That is all. Anything real serious, the MD steps in, and MD's do all procedures because they have much more extensive training. Any women who would allow a non board certified OB/GYN to abort their fetus is taking their life in their hands.

In my ER (we see over 100,000 people a year) NP's and PA are not allowed to work in Trauma and Critical Care areas, or in Chest Pain. They would kill you if they did. Now if you have a fever, or a mild ankle sprain, or a bad cough....no problem.

As for Gosnell, the Government supervises dog kennels and nail salons better than abortion clinics. Democrats don't give a shit about "women's health." If they did, they would provide better supervision of abortion clinics and weed out the quacks like Gosnell.

Total BS. I know many PA's that put doctors to SHAME> Just because you have MD,DO behind your name doesn't mean you can do shit. Most can't manage a typical everyday patient for diabetes, heart problems, etc.

There are PA's out there that are MORE competent than most doctors. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE and the will to learn goes a long long way.

Nurse Practioners aren't on the same level as PA's in most cases. They are way more specialized generally than a PA. Nurse Practitioners are the same way and can be more competent than a doctor given experience.

I've worked around healthcare for many years. The FIRST thing you should ask a healthcare professional is where in their class they graduated. I'll take the top PA student over the bottom half of the medical class every damn time.

Give me a PA with an ER certification on his license and I"ll take him over a general practitioner every time if I'm having a heart attack.

total bullshit of an ignorant militant.
There are no PAs which are better than doctors, neither there are NPs of the category - as they are NEVER on the same level of training and responsibility. It is like comparing a kettle and a bottle. Both are holding water but serve different purposes.
Both NPs and PAs work under supervision of MD or DO.
They may boast in front of you how important they are ( if they are insecure in their abilities and have some internal complexes) but the ones which are REALLY good - will never do that as they are so good that they KNOW their limitations.
The ones which are considering themselves equal or better than physicians - are simply fail to know what they don't know
Stay away from them.

You are wrong. I did everything the MDs where I worked did. And only in the first 3 or 4 years of practice was there an MD in my specialty on site. The VA is making their NPs independent providers. When that happens the rest of the nation will follow. NPs and PAs are just like optometrists, we are mid level providers. And the things mid levels can do and are allowed to do has increased exponentially since we got out there in specialties. NPs doing surgical procedures are an inevitable result of this. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

 

[HenryBHough]

I'm all for cheap abortions, regardless of who provides them to liberals. At minimum it will make one positive contribution to the gene pool; at best TWO.

 

[koshergrl]

No, it doesn't matter who advocates it. It's always wrong when the government funds and encourages the killing of innocents. In this case, it's wrong for women, it's wrong for children, and it's wrong for humanity.

 

[HenryBHough]

No, it doesn't matter who advocates it. It's always wrong when the government funds and encourages the killing of innocents. In this case, it's wrong for women, it's wrong for children, and it's wrong for humanity.

Show me an innocent liberal.......

Just one.

Please.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hey, where are the Liberals chanting their screeds about Republicans not caring about women's health? Oh yeah, they're all quiet. This is disgusting and they f'ing know it.

Clearly the hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

Where are our conservative opponents of government regulation and advocates of personal responsibility?

If Brown were signing into law a measure allowing employers to regulate themselves concerning workplace safety, conservatives would be in full support.

LOL.

Where are you when a woman's life is in danger? Oh that's right, you're armchair quarterbacking at home spouting faux outrage over how she will come to great harm if she is denied an abortion, when you don't give a damn if California passes Non-Physician abortion law that presents an greater danger to her health! You idiot.

You are the hypocrite Clayton.

 

[koshergrl]

Men who fight this battle *for* women are typically the men who also exploit them.

Men who appreicate porn, and sex that is paid for, and who are incapable of entering into meaningful relationships with women, but who feel they have a *right* to have sex with them anyway.

Or, alternately, sex traffickers.

 

[WelfareQueen]

NP's can be certified midwives, and childbirth is way more dangerous than abortion.

Hence, it's illogical and insane to claim NP's are unqualified to do the much safer abortion procedures.

Vox, WelfareQueen, why do you hate women so much that you'd allow NP's to be midwives? Is it that you want women to die?

The kooks, even the "health care professionals", don't seem to know even the most basic facts about medical abortions and childbirth. Such as how easy and safe a vacuum aspiration abortion is. But then, if they weren't dogshit ignorant of the facts, they wouldn't be pro-lifers.

Of course, pro-lifers are the crowd that created Dr. Gosnell. He's the pro-life poster boy, and the goal of pro-lifers is to create more Dr. Gosnells. Once you make it impossible for good clinics to exist, hacks step in to fill the void. Pro-lifers adore that, since they fully approve of abortion as long as it's humiliating and dangerous. Vox proved that with this line.

Personally, for me, this decision is GREAT - it means that it is taking away the necessity to provide care for the procedure which I object to on absolute basis - to the back alleys which I have nothing to do with and never will be threatened to be forced to perform.

Most pro-life liars don't give a shit about life. Never have. They're mainly just a bunch of sicko pervs who get off on punishing women.

Another person talking out of their ass. No NP can act as a midwife without a great deal of additional training and certification. NP are not trained or licensed as an OB/GYN specialist and should be be performing abortions. Period.

 

[BDBoop]

Hey, where are the Liberals chanting their screeds about Republicans not caring about women's health? Oh yeah, they're all quiet. This is disgusting and they f'ing know it.

Clearly the hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

Where are our conservative opponents of government regulation and advocates of personal responsibility?

If Brown were signing into law a measure allowing employers to regulate themselves concerning workplace safety, conservatives would be in full support.

Yup. Because only the fetus is worthy of life. Once born? "Let him die."

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hey, where are the Liberals chanting their screeds about Republicans not caring about women's health? Oh yeah, they're all quiet. This is disgusting and they f'ing know it.

Clearly the hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

Where are our conservative opponents of government regulation and advocates of personal responsibility?

If Brown were signing into law a measure allowing employers to regulate themselves concerning workplace safety, conservatives would be in full support.

Yup. Because only the fetus is worthy of life. Once born? "Let him die."

Sure, but the woman is just as meaningless. Just ask Jerry Brown. "Let her die."

 

[koshergrl]

Hey, where are the Liberals chanting their screeds about Republicans not caring about women's health? Oh yeah, they're all quiet. This is disgusting and they f'ing know it.

Clearly the hypocrisy of the right knows no bounds.

Where are our conservative opponents of government regulation and advocates of personal responsibility?

If Brown were signing into law a measure allowing employers to regulate themselves concerning workplace safety, conservatives would be in full support.

Yup. Because only the fetus is worthy of life. Once born? "Let him die."

Of all the stupid premises the baby killers cling to, this is the most patently ridiculous.

As if abortion increases the likelihood of babies surviving.

 

[hazlnut]