California Parents Pull the "Trigger"

[IGetItAlready]

Yes, the grades are up to the teacher and DON'T match STAR!

Factor in that some students do not test well, but ace assignments...what then?

Teachers teach test taking techniques and give assignments in test taking formats.

When grades don't match the tests, and the whole class is that way, it is a red flag.

I agree.
So, how do we go about getting rid of a bad teacher?

That was kind of the point of this thread before Mr Berry hijacked it with his sob stories of bad students.

If parents and GOOD educators had any recourse in dealing with failing teachers it would be as simple as getting rid of dead weight in any other field or institution.

Unfortunately, when grades don't match the tests overall, this Parental Trigger Law is the only option. It does seem like overkill but as stated earlier, at least some of the teachers in this particular case sided with the parents. Those will be the teachers who care, don't knee-jerk to blaming the kids or parents and will have no problem remaining employed, likely at the same school from which everyone was just fired.

 

[daveman]

what happens if the results are worse than before?

They couldn't get much worse, could they?

 

[daveman]

now you are showing your true colors.

You hate teachers.

Your snide remarks to me started early and often, Mr internet tough guy

Oh for fuck sake already...and YOU are in charge of forming young minds?
It's just too bad we didn't reference race or gender in this clearly pointless exchange.
I'm sure you'd feel EXTRA good calling me a racist.

your are boorish, ill mannered and ignorant

When I was a kid, I loved pointing out my teachers' mistakes.

"You are boorish, ill-mannered, and ignorant."

 

[MeBelle]

All right, here's a personal example.
A student I know started his education career off awesomely, with two years of preschool. In first grade he was labeled a GATE/STAR student and proceeded to second grade at this elevated level. By the middle of second grade his grades started dropping and his parents pulled him from the program. By the end of third grade his learning levels were so low that his teacher put him on a 'watch' list. Proceeding through fourth grade, his parents hired a tutor to get him through fourth grade, and retained the tutor over the summer. By the end of fifth grade this student is reading at a fourth grade level. Additional testing did not prove this student learning disabled or ADD, ADHD etc.
What good did the 'watch' list do? None.

This student is a good kid, cooperative, doesn't get into trouble, has social outlets.

What do you think went wrong?

trouble decoding the long vowel combinations would be my guess

OK...how is that detected?

 

[Jackson]

I think they did!

Look at what they accomplished!

Yeah, not my point.
Teachers can only do so much, and the norm today is for parent's to blame the teachers. When in reality the teacher can only do so much.
We used to get on our children for under performing, now parent's blame the teacher because it is the thing to do.

All right, here's a personal example.
A student I know started his education career off awesomely, with two years of preschool. In first grade he was labeled a GATE/STAR student and proceeded to second grade at this elevated level. By the middle of second grade his grades started dropping and his parents pulled him from the program. By the end of third grade his learning levels were so low that his teacher put him on a 'watch' list. Proceeding through fourth grade, his parents hired a tutor to get him through fourth grade, and retained the tutor over the summer. By the end of fifth grade this student is reading at a fourth grade level. Additional testing did not prove this student learning disabled or ADD, ADHD etc.
What good did the 'watch' list do? None.

This student is a good kid, cooperative, doesn't get into trouble, has social outlets.

What do you think went wrong?

Second grade was telling. What subjects was he having difficulty with? How much trouble and how low did the grades go? What did Standardized tests show?

As a parent, I always had my child in a private school who shared with the parents the grade levels and percentiles of the standardized tests at the end of the year so we could see how our child was progressing. As a teacher, I did the same with my parents in the public school and explained to each at the end of the year what to expect in the next year and at some conferences, why the child was being held back, plus they had already known from grades from earlier quarters.

If math scores are higher than reading it can show potential in reading. If math and reading are about the same, it generally shows that the child is probably working at their potential. If a psychologist did individualized testing, he could give a wealth of information, not just if the child qualifies for special services, but how a tutor can approach a student for remedial work.

 

[squeeze berry]

Teachers teach test taking techniques and give assignments in test taking formats.

When grades don't match the tests, and the whole class is that way, it is a red flag.

I agree.
So, how do we go about getting rid of a bad teacher?

That was kind of the point of this thread before Mr Berry hijacked it with his sob stories of bad students.

If parents and GOOD educators had any recourse in dealing with failing teachers it would be as simple as getting rid of dead weight in any other field or institution.

Unfortunately, when grades don't match the tests overall, this Parental Trigger Law is the only option. It does seem like overkill but as stated earlier, at least some of the teachers in this particular case sided with the parents. Those will be the teachers who care, don't knee-jerk to blaming the kids or parents and will have no problem remaining employed, likely at the same school from which everyone was just fired.

what you call hijacking is what I call a different perspective, but apparently you are too narrow minded to tell the difference



The parents pull the trigger in other ways. Complaining about grades is one. Our school district had a strict grading policy.
100-98 = A+
97 - 93 = A
92- 90 = A-

The parents complained and we went to a 10 point grading system.


the state test is what really counts
the grades are to keep the parents off your back

i'm sure that last sentence will raise some eyebrows

PS maybe i should explain that students should be able to learn the basics. I do not believe that all students are college material.

About 2/3 of our students should be going to vocational school after the 6th or 7th grade and then going out into the work force at about age 16 or 17

Clearly college is not for all, but I don't know of too many parents that don't think their child should not be a doctor. This includes some of the parents of mentally retarded children.

realistic expectations please..............

 

[Jackson]

I agree.
So, how do we go about getting rid of a bad teacher?

That was kind of the point of this thread before Mr Berry hijacked it with his sob stories of bad students.

If parents and GOOD educators had any recourse in dealing with failing teachers it would be as simple as getting rid of dead weight in any other field or institution.

Unfortunately, when grades don't match the tests overall, this Parental Trigger Law is the only option. It does seem like overkill but as stated earlier, at least some of the teachers in this particular case sided with the parents. Those will be the teachers who care, don't knee-jerk to blaming the kids or parents and will have no problem remaining employed, likely at the same school from which everyone was just fired.

what you call hijacking is what I call a different perspective, but apparently you are too narrow minded to tell the difference



The parents pull the trigger in other ways. Complaining about grades is one. Our school district had a strict grading policy.
100-98 = A+
97 - 93 = A
92- 90 = A-

The parents complained and we went to a 10 point grading system.


the state test is what really counts
the grades are to keep the parents off your back

i'm sure that last sentence will raise some eyebrows

Yes, it does raise eyebrows. Parents can be your greatest supporters if you are up front with them. Instead of watering down the grading system, just publish the correct grading system at the beginning of the year and keep in close contact with the parents all year long.

Send out "good notes" when the student perform well on a lesson or do something well. The parents respond well to strokes just as children or teachers do. Commend them on working with their children. Thank them for helping at home and let them know it makes a difference! Let them know how well mannered their child is, or if they misbehaved and you know that they would want to know. Clost contact with parents is the key to parental support.

When you have an attitude of "keeping them off your back," try honey at the beginning of they year, it will make a world of difference, but above all, be honest.

 

[squeeze berry]

That was kind of the point of this thread before Mr Berry hijacked it with his sob stories of bad students.

If parents and GOOD educators had any recourse in dealing with failing teachers it would be as simple as getting rid of dead weight in any other field or institution.

Unfortunately, when grades don't match the tests overall, this Parental Trigger Law is the only option. It does seem like overkill but as stated earlier, at least some of the teachers in this particular case sided with the parents. Those will be the teachers who care, don't knee-jerk to blaming the kids or parents and will have no problem remaining employed, likely at the same school from which everyone was just fired.

what you call hijacking is what I call a different perspective, but apparently you are too narrow minded to tell the difference



The parents pull the trigger in other ways. Complaining about grades is one. Our school district had a strict grading policy.
100-98 = A+
97 - 93 = A
92- 90 = A-

The parents complained and we went to a 10 point grading system.


the state test is what really counts
the grades are to keep the parents off your back

i'm sure that last sentence will raise some eyebrows

Yes, it does raise eyebrows. Parents can be your greatest supporters if you are up front with them. Instead of watering down the grading system, just publish the correct grading system at the beginning of the year and keep in close contact with the parents all year long.

Send out "good notes" when the student perform well on a lesson or do something well. The parents respond well to strokes just as children or teachers do. Commend them on working with their children. Thank them for helping at home and let them know it makes a difference! Let them know how well mannered their child is, or if they misbehaved and you know that they would want to know. Clost contact with parents is the key to parental support.

When you have an attitude of "keeping them off your back," try honey at the beginning of they year, it will make a world of difference, but above all, be honest.

that comment was not one I made up.

I got it from someone else.

I have autistic and MR kids. They are fine. All of them like school and are eager to learn. I want to make their school experience as positive as possible. Learning can be fun.

They act up now and then, but when i understand what the triggers are, I avoid them or at least try to minimize the impact.



One family transferred from another state this past year. The child had been put in isolation there for most of the school day b/c she was disruptive.

The mom was worried about how we would handle this.

I simply told her that isolation was not our policy and that some how we would figure out a way to work around disruptions if they happened.

We found out what the triggers were, changed her seating assignment away from a kid she had issues with, and gave her time to complete tasks without hovering over her.
Needless to say, the mom was relieved and grateful.

but I can't perform miracles.

 

[Samson]

Parents ever think of taking responsibility?

 

[Jackson]

what you call hijacking is what I call a different perspective, but apparently you are too narrow minded to tell the difference



The parents pull the trigger in other ways. Complaining about grades is one. Our school district had a strict grading policy.
100-98 = A+
97 - 93 = A
92- 90 = A-

The parents complained and we went to a 10 point grading system.


the state test is what really counts
the grades are to keep the parents off your back

i'm sure that last sentence will raise some eyebrows

Yes, it does raise eyebrows. Parents can be your greatest supporters if you are up front with them. Instead of watering down the grading system, just publish the correct grading system at the beginning of the year and keep in close contact with the parents all year long.

Send out "good notes" when the student perform well on a lesson or do something well. The parents respond well to strokes just as children or teachers do. Commend them on working with their children. Thank them for helping at home and let them know it makes a difference! Let them know how well mannered their child is, or if they misbehaved and you know that they would want to know. Clost contact with parents is the key to parental support.

When you have an attitude of "keeping them off your back," try honey at the beginning of they year, it will make a world of difference, but above all, be honest.

that comment was not one I made up.

I got it from someone else.

I have autistic and MR kids. They are fine. All of them like school and are eager to learn. I want to make their school experience as positive as possible. Learning can be fun.

They act up now and then, but when i understand what the triggers are, I avoid them or at least try to minimize the impact.



One family transferred from another state this past year. The child had been put in isolation there for most of the school day b/c she was disruptive.

The mom was worried about how we would handle this.

I simply told her that isolation was not our policy and that some how we would figure out a way to work around disruptions if they happened.

We found out what the triggers were, changed her seating assignment away from a kid she had issues with, and gave her time to complete tasks without hovering over her.
Needless to say, the mom was relieved and grateful.

but I can't perform miracles.

You just did.

 

[rightwinger]

What makes them think they will get better teachers?

 

[editec]

THESE STATS might explain much about the outcome of their school

The income per capita in Victorville is 39.3% less than the California average and 31.3% less than the national average.

The median household income in Victorville is 28.8% less than the California average and 16.5% less than the national average.


Thepoverty level in Victorville is 38.3% greater than the California average and 52.2% greater than the national average.

source of data

 

[Jackson]

THESE STATS might explain much about the outcome of their school

The income per capita in Victorville is 39.3% less than the California average and 31.3% less than the national average.

The median household income in Victorville is 28.8% less than the California average and 16.5% less than the national average.


Thepoverty level in Victorville is 38.3% greater than the California average and 52.2% greater than the national average.

source of data

Catholic schools spend less per pupil on education than public schools but get better results. What makes the difference is that parents care and the teachers hold pupils to standards. In this instance the parents care or they would not have taken the steps they have.

The parents my be limited on how much they can help at home, but caring and supporting the school is the mojor factor. The school still has the resources available to them through Federal programs.

 

[Jackson]

What makes them think they will get better teachers?

The teachers will be going in to this school knowing they are under the microscope and expecting to teach and have their students progress to the standards. Passing students on without the mastery of skills could just exacerbate the situation.

 

[squeeze berry]

wow...

very revealing.

According to this Victorville, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


27% of households have a single parent
23 % hispanic
many hispanics may be ELL too.


I'll bet this school district doesn't pay very well. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for the teachers that will be "fired".

 

[Jackson]

wow...

very revealing.

According to this Victorville, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


27% of households have a single parent
23 % hispanic
many hispanics may be ELL too.


I'll bet this school district doesn't pay very well. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for the teachers that will be "fired".

No teacher got rich in their field. Teaching for good teachers is really more of a "calling." Good teachers would go there for the challenge in itself.

 

[blimpo]

Hooray for the parents! Parents should be standing up for what;s right all over the nation! We should be riling against failing schools! Let's hope this is just a beginning!

What causes many schools to be "failing schools" is what gets off in the morning, bred and raised by the parents supposedly raising hell.

Near me is a school corp. with schools in the city and affluent suburbs. The city schools struggle while the outer schools flourish.

If it is the teachers, why don't they prove it by: Trading staffs.

Move the "failing" teachers to the suburb schools for a year while the 4 star teachers work in the city.

They won't use this experiment because they know nothing at the schools would change.
The suburb schools' good test scores would continue while the city would struggle.

The results wouldn't be politically correct.
BTW- One of the major goals of education is to put African American teachers in inner city schools to be models for the students. Today, many of those teachers are the ones on the chopping blocks for bad test scores.
Kind of defeats the purpose of them being there.
Logic in all this is totally lost.

 

[rightwinger]

What makes them think they will get better teachers?

The teachers will be going in to this school knowing they are under the microscope and expecting to teach and have their students progress to the standards. Passing students on without the mastery of skills could just exacerbate the situation.

No they won't. It is a piss poor school district with piss poor pay. After their stunt in firing every teacher, they will end up with piss poor teachers

 

[squeeze berry]

wow...

very revealing.

According to this Victorville, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


27% of households have a single parent
23 % hispanic
many hispanics may be ELL too.


I'll bet this school district doesn't pay very well. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for the teachers that will be "fired".

No teacher got rich in their field. Teaching for good teachers is really more of a "calling." Good teachers would go there for the challenge in itself.

Only good teachers accept less than they are worth?

Is there any other profession where that is the case?

Is there any other profession that gets so much disrespect?

Do you see threads bashing doctors or automotive OEM supervisors?

I'm not expecting to get rich, but for crissakes we need to put a roof over our heads the same as anyone else.

teaching is my second career, so don't say I don't know what private industry is all about.

I have been a teacher for 5 years now.I'm getting better at it and acquiring more qualifications.

My question, why should I go to a school with a troubled past and a history of firing teachers indiscriminately?

Why should I go to a school that pays sub-par and has a low SES demographic of Victorville? Why should I take that chance?

What's going to happen is that only teachers that are inexperienced or desperate will go to troubled schools. No one will stick around long enough to get fired.

If trends in education continue,no one will want to be a teacher. Why take the abuse?

Just call Kelly services and get another teacher after the morning teacher walks out of the door in disgust.

 

[rightwinger]

wow...

very revealing.

According to this Victorville, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


27% of households have a single parent
23 % hispanic
many hispanics may be ELL too.


I'll bet this school district doesn't pay very well. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for the teachers that will be "fired".

No teacher got rich in their field. Teaching for good teachers is really more of a "calling." Good teachers would go there for the challenge in itself.

Only good teachers accept less than they are worth?

Is there any other profession where that is the case?

Is there any other profession that gets so much disrespect?

Do you see threads bashing doctors or automotive OEM supervisors?

I'm not expecting to get rich, but for crissakes we need to put a roof over our heads the same as anyone else.

teaching is my second career, so don't say I don't know what private industry is all about.

I have been a teacher for 5 years now.I'm getting better at it and acquiring more qualifications.

My question, why should I go to a school with a troubled past and a history of firing teachers indiscriminately?

Why should I go to a school that pays sub-par and has a low SES demographic of Victorville? Why should I take that chance?

What's going to happen is that only teachers that are inexperienced or desperate will go to troubled schools. No one will stick around long enough to get fired.

If trends in education continue,no one will want to be a teacher. Why take the abuse?

Just call Kelly services and get another teacher after the morning teacher walks out of the door in disgust.

Exactly. A district that will so readily place the blame on every teacher is looking for scapegoats

Any decent teacher would avoid Victorville like the plague