California Parents Pull the "Trigger"

Education begins at home.

While this is very true, trying to deal with the bureaucratic CA schools, one must SCREAM to be heard.

I'm sure not all districts are the same.

What is obvious to me is that even with state intervention nothing changed over several years...well they did build another school. :confused:

I'm not saying the school is without fault, just that I doubt it's that simple. I'm curious to know how many of these parents with failing kids have taken the time to sit down with their kid and help with their homework, have asked them what they learned that day, attended parent teacher conferences and school board meetings, or read through their textbooks to see what they are learning. I am willing to bet the percentage of parents who do any of those things is low.
 
what happens if the results are worse than before?

Great question Berry. The simple answer of course is the process continues until educators are found for the district who perform well.

Put yourself in the position of an educator. Are you going to accept a position in a district who just canned their entire staff and not be committed to proving your worth and teaching your students thereby keeping your job?

Competition works and the reason our public schools do not is because failure has been so protected. It's stunning really, in this one CRITICAL field we pump an incessantly increasing amount of federal funding and get continuously declining results.
Then you get educational heroes like Michelle Rhee forced to resign after dumping hundreds of failed teachers despite the clearly stellar results her approach to education in DC had.

I've heard some say that Katrina was the best thing to happen to the New Orleans school system in that its destruction left few options aside from charter schools. Their current performance speaks for itself.

We've tried pampering teachers, we've thrown so much money at the problem it's astounding yet the one approach that works so well in just about ever other field, that of competition is seen as a third rail.

Meanwhile, many of our kids are clearly NOT getting their "fair shot".

I am in the position of a teacher, and I've never felt pampered. In fact, I feel I'm getting too much blame.

Why would i want to work for a school district that fired all the teachers? All of them are bad?

Originally they wanted to fire 18, that wasn't all. When the sixth graders cannot read on grade level the teachers are at fault as well as the administrators. The teachers have to teach the curriculum and hold back students who do not master the core subjects. If you don't you are setting them up for failure in the next grade.

What is a sixth grade teacher supposed to do when she gets a class of third grade readers? Hold those students back until they have mastered the reading and math skills taught in each grade and then you have kids who can read on grade level. The administrators should not have allowed kids to slide by on social promotions.
 
Education begins at home.

While this is very true, trying to deal with the bureaucratic CA schools, one must SCREAM to be heard.

I'm sure not all districts are the same.

What is obvious to me is that even with state intervention nothing changed over several years...well they did build another school. :confused:

I'm not saying the school is without fault, just that I doubt it's that simple. I'm curious to know how many of these parents with failing kids have taken the time to sit down with their kid and help with their homework, have asked them what they learned that day, attended parent teacher conferences and school board meetings, or read through their textbooks to see what they are learning. I am willing to bet the percentage of parents who do any of those things is low.

I don't know. These parents shound like they care. It sounds like this school was passing students on regardless of mastery of subjects and if that happens and parents don't care they seldom cause problems but let it go on. These parents knew it was a failing school and didn't like it. They wanted their kids to learn.
 
with all due respect my ass......

Let's use some logic.

most students are average students
most teachers are average teachers

If I had 100 bright and eager students they would all pass the state test. I would be a super teacher.

What if I got 100 lazy and not so bright students and none passed the test. I'm a bad teacher right?

how do you know that in the first case I don't come into class and drink martinis and just let the kids do workshhets and in the second case do a brilliant job but they just don't get it?

Remember, half of the population is on the left side of the bell curve when it comes to intelligence. None of them are teachers.

That being said, I teach MR and autistic students. I must teach them all the core subjects witout a curriculum and no text books. I have to pull everything out of my ass. If you think it's eay, try it. On top of that I have to do all kinds of administrative bullshit. That leaves less time for actual teaching.

Now, riddle me tis. If my MR students show little to no progress should i be canned? Remember, they have been in school for over ten years and in some cases can't tie their shoes or blow their noses. My brightest students are at the first grade level at age 17. It's my fault they can't read corect?


And I'll stste that my literacy program is top notch. I'm one of the few teachers at the high school level that can teach phonics and comprehension skills.

Do you think you can do this smart alec?

PS no teacher can inject IQ points into someone's brain or give them a shock to get them to do the work.

No need to get so pissed Mr Berry. My intent was not to offend despite the fact that your angry rant warrants me jumping right into the mud with you...but I won't.

I've NEVER said teaching was easy. Nor is brain surgery but we expect those who do it to do it well just as in ever other professional field.
Use your one in a million example to defend all teachers if it makes you feel better. Tell me how the autistic kid who was recently in the news for being kept in a bag in the hallway was a "bad student". Tell me how another autistic child made the news when his mom recorded the utterly horrible treatment he received from his educators "wasn't the brightest student". And then tell me my examples mean nothing as they're the minority...as is the case in your illustration of your own personal experience.

Did you become a teacher because you thought it would be a piece of cake? Summers and weekends off? The satisfying feeling of always being the smartest person in the room while at work?

You're right. To hell with the kids if they don't know how to allow our educators to do their job.

what is your line of work?

Well Mr Berry, I'm too am a "teacher" of sorts though it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

I'm a supervisor in an automotive OEM.
Believe it or not, I'm guessing our work experiences are identical in many ways except I'm held to account for myself and the performance of the entire "class".

"Administrative bullshit"??? Tell me about it. From facilitating staffing and planning meetings to keeping training matrices on each of my team members to documenting each and every little bitch and whine anyone on the floor has to sitting a couple of co-workers down in my office to hash out the kinds of juvenile issues that might make your kids laugh.

And then after all that, I've got a job to do. Testing new chemistry and finding cost reductions, blah, blah, blah.

The point is I'm the man, just as you're the man or woman in your classroom. And when the shit hits the fan no one points their finger at the guy out on the line working for beer money. It's all on me.

Anyone who has ever had a job with any responsibility in ANY field short of possibly education knows what I'm talking about.
 
While this is very true, trying to deal with the bureaucratic CA schools, one must SCREAM to be heard.

I'm sure not all districts are the same.

What is obvious to me is that even with state intervention nothing changed over several years...well they did build another school. :confused:

I'm not saying the school is without fault, just that I doubt it's that simple. I'm curious to know how many of these parents with failing kids have taken the time to sit down with their kid and help with their homework, have asked them what they learned that day, attended parent teacher conferences and school board meetings, or read through their textbooks to see what they are learning. I am willing to bet the percentage of parents who do any of those things is low.

I don't know. These parents shound like they care. It sounds like this school was passing students on regardless of mastery of subjects and if that happens and parents don't care they seldom cause problems but let it go on. These parents knew it was a failing school and didn't like it. They wanted their kids to learn.

In Cali, they will pass a student on to the next grade as long as they don't have an F average, D-, yup!
 
Parents ever think of taking responsibility?

I think they did!

Look at what they accomplished!

Yeah, not my point.
Teachers can only do so much, and the norm today is for parent's to blame the teachers. When in reality the teacher can only do so much.
We used to get on our children for under performing, now parent's blame the teacher because it is the thing to do.
 
Education begins at home.

While this is very true, trying to deal with the bureaucratic CA schools, one must SCREAM to be heard.

I'm sure not all districts are the same.

What is obvious to me is that even with state intervention nothing changed over several years...well they did build another school. :confused:

I'm not saying the school is without fault, just that I doubt it's that simple. I'm curious to know how many of these parents with failing kids have taken the time to sit down with their kid and help with their homework, have asked them what they learned that day, attended parent teacher conferences and school board meetings, or read through their textbooks to see what they are learning. I am willing to bet the percentage of parents who do any of those things is low.

I understand exactly what you mean.

I have a personal interest in this story and the way Cali 'educates' students.
If we got back to teaching the basics, rather than teaching to the test, students would actually learn.

I have seen too many students fall through the cracks.
 
No need to get so pissed Mr Berry. My intent was not to offend despite the fact that your angry rant warrants me jumping right into the mud with you...but I won't.

I've NEVER said teaching was easy. Nor is brain surgery but we expect those who do it to do it well just as in ever other professional field.
Use your one in a million example to defend all teachers if it makes you feel better. Tell me how the autistic kid who was recently in the news for being kept in a bag in the hallway was a "bad student". Tell me how another autistic child made the news when his mom recorded the utterly horrible treatment he received from his educators "wasn't the brightest student". And then tell me my examples mean nothing as they're the minority...as is the case in your illustration of your own personal experience.

Did you become a teacher because you thought it would be a piece of cake? Summers and weekends off? The satisfying feeling of always being the smartest person in the room while at work?

You're right. To hell with the kids if they don't know how to allow our educators to do their job.

what is your line of work?

Well Mr Berry, I'm too am a "teacher" of sorts though it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

I'm a supervisor in an automotive OEM.
Believe it or not, I'm guessing our work experiences are identical in many ways except I'm held to account for myself and the performance of the entire "class".

"Administrative bullshit"??? Tell me about it. From facilitating staffing and planning meetings to keeping training matrices on each of my team members to documenting each and every little bitch and whine anyone on the floor has to sitting a couple of co-workers down in my office to hash out the kinds of juvenile issues that might make your kids laugh.

And then after all that, I've got a job to do. Testing new chemistry and finding cost reductions, blah, blah, blah.

The point is I'm the man, just as you're the man or woman in your classroom. And when the shit hits the fan no one points their finger at the guy out on the line working for beer money. It's all on me.

Anyone who has ever had a job with any responsibility in ANY field short of possibly education knows what I'm talking about.

now you are showing your true colors.

You hate teachers.

Your snide remarks to me started early and often, Mr internet tough guy
 
I'm not saying the school is without fault, just that I doubt it's that simple. I'm curious to know how many of these parents with failing kids have taken the time to sit down with their kid and help with their homework, have asked them what they learned that day, attended parent teacher conferences and school board meetings, or read through their textbooks to see what they are learning. I am willing to bet the percentage of parents who do any of those things is low.

I don't know. These parents shound like they care. It sounds like this school was passing students on regardless of mastery of subjects and if that happens and parents don't care they seldom cause problems but let it go on. These parents knew it was a failing school and didn't like it. They wanted their kids to learn.

In Cali, they will pass a student on to the next grade as long as they don't have an F average, D-, yup!

And are those grades up to the teacher? Let's ;look at standardized tests for a moment. Thoose standardized tests show what the reading and math levels are for each student and they had better correspond to those teachers' grades! How lenient were those grades?

As a teacher consultant I saw how teachers can grade "on the curve" when they make up their own tests and the kids blow them! If a teachers is passing a first grader who tests show they aren't ready for second grade, the administrator had better talk to that teacher about her grading system pronto!
 
what is your line of work?

Well Mr Berry, I'm too am a "teacher" of sorts though it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

I'm a supervisor in an automotive OEM.
Believe it or not, I'm guessing our work experiences are identical in many ways except I'm held to account for myself and the performance of the entire "class".

"Administrative bullshit"??? Tell me about it. From facilitating staffing and planning meetings to keeping training matrices on each of my team members to documenting each and every little bitch and whine anyone on the floor has to sitting a couple of co-workers down in my office to hash out the kinds of juvenile issues that might make your kids laugh.

And then after all that, I've got a job to do. Testing new chemistry and finding cost reductions, blah, blah, blah.

The point is I'm the man, just as you're the man or woman in your classroom. And when the shit hits the fan no one points their finger at the guy out on the line working for beer money. It's all on me.

Anyone who has ever had a job with any responsibility in ANY field short of possibly education knows what I'm talking about.

now you are showing your true colors.

You hate teachers.

Your snide remarks to me started early and often, Mr internet tough guy

Oh for fuck sake already...and YOU are in charge of forming young minds?
It's just too bad we didn't reference race or gender in this clearly pointless exchange.
I'm sure you'd feel EXTRA good calling me a racist. :lol::lol::lol:
 
Well Mr Berry, I'm too am a "teacher" of sorts though it makes no difference to the topic at hand.

I'm a supervisor in an automotive OEM.
Believe it or not, I'm guessing our work experiences are identical in many ways except I'm held to account for myself and the performance of the entire "class".

"Administrative bullshit"??? Tell me about it. From facilitating staffing and planning meetings to keeping training matrices on each of my team members to documenting each and every little bitch and whine anyone on the floor has to sitting a couple of co-workers down in my office to hash out the kinds of juvenile issues that might make your kids laugh.

And then after all that, I've got a job to do. Testing new chemistry and finding cost reductions, blah, blah, blah.

The point is I'm the man, just as you're the man or woman in your classroom. And when the shit hits the fan no one points their finger at the guy out on the line working for beer money. It's all on me.

Anyone who has ever had a job with any responsibility in ANY field short of possibly education knows what I'm talking about.

now you are showing your true colors.

You hate teachers.

Your snide remarks to me started early and often, Mr internet tough guy

Oh for fuck sake already...and YOU are in charge of forming young minds?
It's just too bad we didn't reference race or gender in this clearly pointless exchange.
I'm sure you'd feel EXTRA good calling me a racist. :lol::lol::lol:

your are boorish, ill mannered and ignorant
 
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now you are showing your true colors.

You hate teachers.

Your snide remarks to me started early and often, Mr internet tough guy

Oh for fuck sake already...and YOU are in charge of forming young minds?
It's just too bad we didn't reference race or gender in this clearly pointless exchange.
I'm sure you'd feel EXTRA good calling me a racist. :lol::lol::lol:

your are boorish, ill mannered and ignorant

Go troll someone else already admitted failure.
 
I don't know. These parents shound like they care. It sounds like this school was passing students on regardless of mastery of subjects and if that happens and parents don't care they seldom cause problems but let it go on. These parents knew it was a failing school and didn't like it. They wanted their kids to learn.

In Cali, they will pass a student on to the next grade as long as they don't have an F average, D-, yup!

And are those grades up to the teacher? Let's ;look at standardized tests for a moment. Thoose standardized tests show what the reading and math levels are for each student and they had better correspond to those teachers' grades! How lenient were those grades?

As a teacher consultant I saw how teachers can grade "on the curve" when they make up their own tests and the kids blow them! If a teachers is passing a first grader who tests show they aren't ready for second grade, the administrator had better talk to that teacher about her grading system pronto!

Yes, the grades are up to the teacher and DON'T match STAR!

Factor in that some students do not test well, but ace assignments...what then?
 
In Cali, they will pass a student on to the next grade as long as they don't have an F average, D-, yup!

And are those grades up to the teacher? Let's ;look at standardized tests for a moment. Thoose standardized tests show what the reading and math levels are for each student and they had better correspond to those teachers' grades! How lenient were those grades?

As a teacher consultant I saw how teachers can grade "on the curve" when they make up their own tests and the kids blow them! If a teachers is passing a first grader who tests show they aren't ready for second grade, the administrator had better talk to that teacher about her grading system pronto!

Yes, the grades are up to the teacher and DON'T match STAR!

Factor in that some students do not test well, but ace assignments...what then?

Teachers teach test taking techniques and give assignments in test taking formats.

When grades don't match the tests, and the whole class is that way, it is a red flag.
 
Parents ever think of taking responsibility?

I think they did!

Look at what they accomplished!

Yeah, not my point.
Teachers can only do so much, and the norm today is for parent's to blame the teachers. When in reality the teacher can only do so much.
We used to get on our children for under performing, now parent's blame the teacher because it is the thing to do.

All right, here's a personal example.
A student I know started his education career off awesomely, with two years of preschool. In first grade he was labeled a GATE/STAR student and proceeded to second grade at this elevated level. By the middle of second grade his grades started dropping and his parents pulled him from the program. By the end of third grade his learning levels were so low that his teacher put him on a 'watch' list. Proceeding through fourth grade, his parents hired a tutor to get him through fourth grade, and retained the tutor over the summer. By the end of fifth grade this student is reading at a fourth grade level. Additional testing did not prove this student learning disabled or ADD, ADHD etc.
What good did the 'watch' list do? None.

This student is a good kid, cooperative, doesn't get into trouble, has social outlets.

What do you think went wrong?
 
And are those grades up to the teacher? Let's ;look at standardized tests for a moment. Thoose standardized tests show what the reading and math levels are for each student and they had better correspond to those teachers' grades! How lenient were those grades?

As a teacher consultant I saw how teachers can grade "on the curve" when they make up their own tests and the kids blow them! If a teachers is passing a first grader who tests show they aren't ready for second grade, the administrator had better talk to that teacher about her grading system pronto!

Yes, the grades are up to the teacher and DON'T match STAR!

Factor in that some students do not test well, but ace assignments...what then?

Teachers teach test taking techniques and give assignments in test taking formats.

When grades don't match the tests, and the whole class is that way, it is a red flag.

I agree.
So, how do we go about getting rid of a bad teacher?
 
I think they did!

Look at what they accomplished!

Yeah, not my point.
Teachers can only do so much, and the norm today is for parent's to blame the teachers. When in reality the teacher can only do so much.
We used to get on our children for under performing, now parent's blame the teacher because it is the thing to do.

All right, here's a personal example.
A student I know started his education career off awesomely, with two years of preschool. In first grade he was labeled a GATE/STAR student and proceeded to second grade at this elevated level. By the middle of second grade his grades started dropping and his parents pulled him from the program. By the end of third grade his learning levels were so low that his teacher put him on a 'watch' list. Proceeding through fourth grade, his parents hired a tutor to get him through fourth grade, and retained the tutor over the summer. By the end of fifth grade this student is reading at a fourth grade level. Additional testing did not prove this student learning disabled or ADD, ADHD etc.
What good did the 'watch' list do? None.

This student is a good kid, cooperative, doesn't get into trouble, has social outlets.

What do you think went wrong?

trouble decoding the long vowel combinations would be my guess
 

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