California not suffering, drought?

[jc456]

You're claiming the US government drought maps are a vast conspiracy? Like I said, you're delusional. Only you know the RealTruth, eh?

Could you tell us again about how grapes grown with water from rapidly declining reservoirs proves there's no drought? That bit of non-logic was quite amusing.

Can you show us which Grapes are watered by Reservoir instead of making a bullshit statement off the top of your head. You can not because you lied.

He did not lie. The grapes grown in Napa Valley (the most famous wine region in California) get their water from reservoirs (Lake Berryessa if memory serves), which are being depleted due to lack of rain. Many also get water from groundwater, which is also being depleted. Of course they all get water from rain--but that has been nonexistent.
CALIFORNIA Napa grape growers fret over their future amid severe drought -- Tuesday January 28 2014 -- www.eenews.net

Your ignorance is astounding.

Can you explain how come the recent California Rain is excluded from the Map and the Report.

The map reflects conditions of 9/2/2014. The rains came several days after that, so obviously are not included. Duh.

The Map is for dummies by the activist, David Simeral.

My OP stands vaild, California is not suffering. Record yields of Grape every year of this drought, Grapes are for wine, I did not cherry pick the grape data, it just stands out as bragging while others suffer the politics

A record harvest of Grapes for Wine while telling the public we can not take a bath or flush our toilets. I bet Obama drank that wine with his Hollywood friends as well as his friends in the rich city of Carmel.

Keep parroting your B.S. As has already been shown to you, CA agriculture is suffering to the tune of what is expected to be $1 billion. Ski resorts had horrible seasons, as did ski towns, because there was simply not any snow. Many grape farmers are also suffering. I have already given you links to data that proves all of this to be true.

Methinks that you are so blinded by your denial of global warming that refuse to the negative effects of the CA drought because you think seeing those effects means global warming is real. In reality, the presence of a drought does not require you to believe in global warming.

An objective, informed poster. What a welcome breath of fresh air.

hey watch out for that Tree......................

 

[Crick]

hey watch out for that Tree......................

So, we're both old enough to remember the George of the Jungle segments on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

Do you have any quality material with which to dispute or refute the comments of poster ShackledNation?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Elektra, you are about the stupidest liar on this board.

http://cdrf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/drought-monitor-map.jpg

7 Powerful Photos Before And After The California Drought

14 Facts Everyone Should Know About The California Drought

^ Local, not Global

 

[CrusaderFrank]

hey watch out for that Tree......................

So, we're both old enough to remember the George of the Jungle segments on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

Do you have any quality material with which to dispute or refute the comments of poster ShackledNation?

OK had to give you props for that

Signed,

Lance Link

 

[jc456]

hey watch out for that Tree......................

So, we're both old enough to remember the George of the Jungle segments on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

Do you have any quality material with which to dispute or refute the comments of poster ShackledNation?

dude, I have no idea what he's pointing out.

Here is a link from Wines and Vines. You tell me is this BS or is this showing that California is reporting record grape production?

that's why I posted what I posted. George always hit the tree, I just don't get the inaccurate posting. Not sure why that is so. It's easy to investigate on the internet.

 

[jc456]

hey watch out for that Tree......................

So, we're both old enough to remember the George of the Jungle segments on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

Do you have any quality material with which to dispute or refute the comments of poster ShackledNation?

dude, I have no idea what he's pointing out.

Here is a link from Wines and Vines. You tell me is this BS or is this showing that California is reporting record grape production?

that's why I posted what I posted. George always hit the tree, I just don't get the inaccurate posting. Not sure why that is so. It's easy to investigate on the internet.

And it looks like a lot of stompin parties going on for a drought ridden season California Festivals Link

Oh and these types of articles are funny. Check the picture, it is taken in January when the plants are pruned and are supposed to look like the picture. Wine News link The fall is harvest, so at the moment 2104 is not recorded yet.

 

[Crick]

ShackledNation's linked article:

CALIFORNIA:
Napa grape growers fret over their future amid severe drought
Debra Kahn, E&E reporter

ClimateWire: Tuesday, January 28, 2014

YOUNTVILLE, Calif. -- California's drought has farmers worried about protecting Napa Valley's reputation for world-class wines.

It's 75 degrees and cloudless outside, and the conference hall in downtown Yountville -- an enclave of upscale inns, restaurants and tasting rooms -- is filled with more than 100 grape growers, mostly gray-haired, wearing plaid shirts and jeans.

"I've never had sunny weather make me feel so gloomy," said Jon Ruel, director of viticulture and winemaking at Trefethen Family Vineyards and president of Napa Valley Grapegrowers, which includes more than 670 growers, vineyards and associated businesses.

A drought-troubled vineyard in Napa Valley. Photo by Debra Kahn.

Grape farmers gathered here last week to discuss how to protect their fields from record-low rainfall. Options are limited in the Napa Valley, where farms get all of their water from rain that fills rivers and reservoirs, typically 30 inches per year. This year, grape growers are praying for 8 inches. They've gotten no more than 3.5 inches since the rainy season began in October.

Growers are anxious and looking for advice. Wine grape production is Napa County's economic engine, producing $657 million in gross revenue in 2012, according to state statistics. And while about 15 percent of wine sold in the United States is from Napa County, it accounts for 31 percent of total retail value, or $10.1 billion, according to a 2012 industry study.

"I have zero water," said Ashley Bennett, associate vineyard manager for Cain Vineyard and Winery in St. Helena, which specializes in cabernet. "If you had to use all your water last year, then you have no water this year." Her vines are also suffering from Pierce's disease, she said, a bacterial infection spread by insects that dries out leaves and fruit.

Most aren't as badly off as Bennett, who acknowledges that her situation is an extreme. Bennett's vineyard is on a hillside, which doesn't have groundwater wells and relies only on reservoirs that fill with rainwater. She has two ponds that hold about 32 acre-feet of water total; both are dry.

Most areas along the Napa Valley floor have relatively stable supplies of groundwater, so they're not in danger of going totally dry. And farmers in the valley are taking pains to make that point to regulators. Napa County began studying groundwater levels in 2009. The county is now preparing to build a pipeline to bring recycled water to the Coombsville area, which its survey found was in decline, in contrast to most other areas that had good data.

Peter McCrea, proprietor of Stony Hill Vineyard in St. Helena, is chairman of the county's Groundwater Resources Advisory Committee, which is readying recommendations on how to encourage voluntary groundwater monitoring and conservation. He said he expected his own output from his hillside farm to drop about 50 percent from last year's yield of 2 tons of grapes per acre.

"If I'm an optimist, I'd say it'd be about half of what last year was," he said. But he doesn't expect quality to decline. During the dry years of 2006-07, he said, quality was actually improved.

"The grapes are more intense," he said. "You don't get as many grapes, but the ones you do get tend to have more intense fruit."

Adaptation to a 'new reality'
At last week's meeting, experts cautioned against trying to grow too many grapes with not enough water.

"The most challenging thing, because of where we are in the world, is we can't get away with sacrificing quality," said Mike Wolf of Michael Wolf Vineyard Services, which helps operate dozens of farms in the valley. "We just can't go down that road."

Farmers advised their colleagues to pare back their plants according to the amount of water they have. Cutting back leaf canopies reduces the amount of energy that leaves can send to grapes, which prevents the vines from growing more shoots. And using slow-release fertilizers can prevent early growth spurts.

"Focus on a smaller vine if you can accept kind of a reduced crop," Wolf said.

Farmers can also adjust their watering practices. "If you have the choice to do drip irrigation, it'd be much more efficient than overhead," said Amy Warnock, viticulturist at Orin Swift Cellars. But drip irrigation is also flawed, as it deposits water onto only a small percentage of the soil, Garrett Buckland, a partner at Premiere Viticultural Services, pointed out.

Dry farming, which involves carefully managing rainfall, soil and crop timing, can work, but it's not suited to large, densely planted vineyards, Wolf said.

"We have to get smarter about how we water and when we water," Buckland said. Instruments like soil moisture probes; dendrometers, which measure plant growth; and porometers, which measure leaves' CO2 and water vapor conductivity, can help farmers make watering decisions, he said.

As well, Buckland said, farmers in highly visible areas should consider the optics of watering vines with overhead sprinklers during a drought, even if they have adequate supplies. During the daytime, as tourists pass by, "maybe consider turning that off," he said.

They can also take drought into their decisions when planting new vines.

"Maybe we can't grow syrah in Calistoga because it's so thirsty," Wolf said. "If this does in fact become the new reality ... you're making a nominally 25- or 30-year commitment to something that you may not be able to support."

Farmers with well water are deciding whether to start irrigating now to moisten the soil or wait until mid-March, when buds will start to blossom.

There's still hope that the winter will bring enough rain, but long-range forecasts through April are for more dry weather. The high-pressure zone over Northern California, a result of the polar jet stream, has persisted since March 2013.

"Seeing 10 months of this pattern is really unheard of," Buckland said. "We may not be able to break this pattern before winter is over."

Worst could be yet to come
Growers are also worried about next year's supplies. As a perennial plant, the grapevine takes two years to bear fruit, so buds that emerge this year won't ripen until next year. A dry year this year could hamstring bud development, said Mark Matthews, a viticulture professor at the University of California, Davis.

"What we really haven't seen that could happen is, if it's dry enough, grapevines actually become damaged and start to die, so you don't get the buds you need for the 2015 season," he said. "That potentially could become devastating, and it's not like when you're growing corn or something when you can just plant again next year. It's a 30-year commitment."

"This is becoming more frequent, whether we like it or not," said Buckland.

The grape growers' association provided farmers at the meeting with information about crop insurance. For basic catastrophic coverage, which pays out if losses exceed 50 percent of historical yield, the U.S. Department of Agriculture pays the entire premium. The payment is set at 55 percent of established market prices. For fuller coverage, growers can choose to insure themselves up to 85 percent of their historic yield.

Outside the community center, grower Mike Applegate discussed insurance with his agent. If his production is below 25 percent of normal, his insurance kicks in, he said. He said it pays out roughly every five years. Farmers have until Jan. 31 to sign up; they'll know whether it was worth it by the end of the year, when they finish harvesting their crops.

"There's an inch of rain out there," Applegate said. "Jump on it, dude."

 

[jc456]

ShackledNation's linked article:

CALIFORNIA:
Napa grape growers fret over their future amid severe drought
Debra Kahn, E&E reporter

ClimateWire: Tuesday, January 28, 2014

YOUNTVILLE, Calif. -- California's drought has farmers worried about protecting Napa Valley's reputation for world-class wines.

It's 75 degrees and cloudless outside, and the conference hall in downtown Yountville -- an enclave of upscale inns, restaurants and tasting rooms -- is filled with more than 100 grape growers, mostly gray-haired, wearing plaid shirts and jeans.

"I've never had sunny weather make me feel so gloomy," said Jon Ruel, director of viticulture and winemaking at Trefethen Family Vineyards and president of Napa Valley Grapegrowers, which includes more than 670 growers, vineyards and associated businesses.

A drought-troubled vineyard in Napa Valley. Photo by Debra Kahn.

Grape farmers gathered here last week to discuss how to protect their fields from record-low rainfall. Options are limited in the Napa Valley, where farms get all of their water from rain that fills rivers and reservoirs, typically 30 inches per year. This year, grape growers are praying for 8 inches. They've gotten no more than 3.5 inches since the rainy season began in October.

Growers are anxious and looking for advice. Wine grape production is Napa County's economic engine, producing $657 million in gross revenue in 2012, according to state statistics. And while about 15 percent of wine sold in the United States is from Napa County, it accounts for 31 percent of total retail value, or $10.1 billion, according to a 2012 industry study.

"I have zero water," said Ashley Bennett, associate vineyard manager for Cain Vineyard and Winery in St. Helena, which specializes in cabernet. "If you had to use all your water last year, then you have no water this year." Her vines are also suffering from Pierce's disease, she said, a bacterial infection spread by insects that dries out leaves and fruit.

Most aren't as badly off as Bennett, who acknowledges that her situation is an extreme. Bennett's vineyard is on a hillside, which doesn't have groundwater wells and relies only on reservoirs that fill with rainwater. She has two ponds that hold about 32 acre-feet of water total; both are dry.

Most areas along the Napa Valley floor have relatively stable supplies of groundwater, so they're not in danger of going totally dry. And farmers in the valley are taking pains to make that point to regulators. Napa County began studying groundwater levels in 2009. The county is now preparing to build a pipeline to bring recycled water to the Coombsville area, which its survey found was in decline, in contrast to most other areas that had good data.

Peter McCrea, proprietor of Stony Hill Vineyard in St. Helena, is chairman of the county's Groundwater Resources Advisory Committee, which is readying recommendations on how to encourage voluntary groundwater monitoring and conservation. He said he expected his own output from his hillside farm to drop about 50 percent from last year's yield of 2 tons of grapes per acre.

"If I'm an optimist, I'd say it'd be about half of what last year was," he said. But he doesn't expect quality to decline. During the dry years of 2006-07, he said, quality was actually improved.

"The grapes are more intense," he said. "You don't get as many grapes, but the ones you do get tend to have more intense fruit."

Adaptation to a 'new reality'
At last week's meeting, experts cautioned against trying to grow too many grapes with not enough water.

"The most challenging thing, because of where we are in the world, is we can't get away with sacrificing quality," said Mike Wolf of Michael Wolf Vineyard Services, which helps operate dozens of farms in the valley. "We just can't go down that road."

Farmers advised their colleagues to pare back their plants according to the amount of water they have. Cutting back leaf canopies reduces the amount of energy that leaves can send to grapes, which prevents the vines from growing more shoots. And using slow-release fertilizers can prevent early growth spurts.

"Focus on a smaller vine if you can accept kind of a reduced crop," Wolf said.

Farmers can also adjust their watering practices. "If you have the choice to do drip irrigation, it'd be much more efficient than overhead," said Amy Warnock, viticulturist at Orin Swift Cellars. But drip irrigation is also flawed, as it deposits water onto only a small percentage of the soil, Garrett Buckland, a partner at Premiere Viticultural Services, pointed out.

Dry farming, which involves carefully managing rainfall, soil and crop timing, can work, but it's not suited to large, densely planted vineyards, Wolf said.

"We have to get smarter about how we water and when we water," Buckland said. Instruments like soil moisture probes; dendrometers, which measure plant growth; and porometers, which measure leaves' CO2 and water vapor conductivity, can help farmers make watering decisions, he said.

As well, Buckland said, farmers in highly visible areas should consider the optics of watering vines with overhead sprinklers during a drought, even if they have adequate supplies. During the daytime, as tourists pass by, "maybe consider turning that off," he said.

They can also take drought into their decisions when planting new vines.

"Maybe we can't grow syrah in Calistoga because it's so thirsty," Wolf said. "If this does in fact become the new reality ... you're making a nominally 25- or 30-year commitment to something that you may not be able to support."

Farmers with well water are deciding whether to start irrigating now to moisten the soil or wait until mid-March, when buds will start to blossom.

There's still hope that the winter will bring enough rain, but long-range forecasts through April are for more dry weather. The high-pressure zone over Northern California, a result of the polar jet stream, has persisted since March 2013.

"Seeing 10 months of this pattern is really unheard of," Buckland said. "We may not be able to break this pattern before winter is over."

Worst could be yet to come
Growers are also worried about next year's supplies. As a perennial plant, the grapevine takes two years to bear fruit, so buds that emerge this year won't ripen until next year. A dry year this year could hamstring bud development, said Mark Matthews, a viticulture professor at the University of California, Davis.

"What we really haven't seen that could happen is, if it's dry enough, grapevines actually become damaged and start to die, so you don't get the buds you need for the 2015 season," he said. "That potentially could become devastating, and it's not like when you're growing corn or something when you can just plant again next year. It's a 30-year commitment."

"This is becoming more frequent, whether we like it or not," said Buckland.

The grape growers' association provided farmers at the meeting with information about crop insurance. For basic catastrophic coverage, which pays out if losses exceed 50 percent of historical yield, the U.S. Department of Agriculture pays the entire premium. The payment is set at 55 percent of established market prices. For fuller coverage, growers can choose to insure themselves up to 85 percent of their historic yield.

Outside the community center, grower Mike Applegate discussed insurance with his agent. If his production is below 25 percent of normal, his insurance kicks in, he said. He said it pays out roughly every five years. Farmers have until Jan. 31 to sign up; they'll know whether it was worth it by the end of the year, when they finish harvesting their crops.

"There's an inch of rain out there," Applegate said. "Jump on it, dude."

Crick, go read the seasons for grape growing here from California Vinyard web site (link)

excerpt:
"Winter
During California’s colder winter months, the vines settle into a dormant state and pruning takes place. Just like fruit trees, higher-quality fruit grows on vines that have been cut back properly, so in winter when vines have lost their leaves and are almost empty of sap, growers begin pruning. Pruning requires experience and must be done very carefully, as too much will cause less fruit to grow in the coming months and too little may produce lower-quality grapes. Pruning sets the stage for the upcoming crop and is considered a skillful art among most growers and vineyard workers."

I think January is winter. And if you actually go to the web site and read what happens in winter, you'll find they do their pruning then. that's why in January, you'll see bare plants. I sent that link earlier.

We now have to wait for updates on the harvest which is coming.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Everything is fine, as long as you are a rich wine producer, plenty of water to expand profits while at the same time the people are told we ain't got the water to flush the toilet or take a hot bath.

Irony?

A few things;

Many of the grapes are grown in the North, where there is plenty of water. Most of the issue with drought in in Southern California due to Brown and the ruling democrats shutting off delta water.

Secondly, grapes are generally grown with reclaimed water, which is not suitable for drinking.

 

[jc456]

Everything is fine, as long as you are a rich wine producer, plenty of water to expand profits while at the same time the people are told we ain't got the water to flush the toilet or take a hot bath.

Irony?

A few things;

Many of the grapes are grown in the North, where there is plenty of water. Most of the issue with drought in in Southern California due to Brown and the ruling democrats shutting off delta water.

Secondly, grapes are generally grown with reclaimed water, which is not suitable for drinking.

32K of posts???????????????????????????? holy crap. What is your job?

 

[RollingThunder]

It takes a special kind of insanity to start a thread proclaiming that California isn't really in a drought when every newspaper in the state is filled with stories about the severity of the drought and the state is under mandatory water use restrictions. 'Eekthetroll' posted that demented OP based, apparently, on some deranged paranoia over a old 1974 movie about political and economic shenanigans over water in LA in 1938.

It takes an even more special, politically motivated kind of insanity to post meaningless drivel in support of that crackpot OP, like ol' JustCrazy did.

 

[jc456]

It takes a special kind of insanity to start a thread proclaiming that California isn't really in a drought when every newspaper in the state is filled with stories about the severity of the drought and the state is under mandatory water use restrictions. 'Eekthetroll' posted that demented OP based, apparently, on some deranged paranoia over a old 1974 movie about political and economic shenanigans over water in LA in 1938.

It takes an even more special, politically motivated kind of insanity to post meaningless drivel in support of that crackpot OP, like ol' JustCrazy did.

Not nearly as insane as someone claiming that .14 degree f tmeperatures changes climate and causes sea levels to rise.

 

[RollingThunder]

It takes a special kind of insanity to start a thread proclaiming that California isn't really in a drought when every newspaper in the state is filled with stories about the severity of the drought and the state is under mandatory water use restrictions. 'Eekthetroll' posted that demented OP based, apparently, on some deranged paranoia over a old 1974 movie about political and economic shenanigans over water in LA in 1938.

It takes an even more special, politically motivated kind of insanity to post meaningless drivel in support of that crackpot OP, like ol' JustCrazy did.

Not nearly as insane as someone claiming that .14 degree f tmeperatures changes climate and causes sea levels to rise.

That would be insane....but, of course, you're ridiculously wrong, as usual, this time by a whole order of magnitude. Moron!

Since the early 20th century, the global air and sea surface temperature has increased about 0.8 °C (1.4 °F), with about two-thirds of the increase occurring since 1980.[5]
(source)

 

[Uncensored2008]

So because you have a pretty picture, there is a drought? Really, this proves your drought? holy crap again. Dude, you need to relax a bit.

There is a drought, it's California. Drought and fire are the two constants. 6 years of drought followed by a year of floods, followed by two moderate years. This is the way California is.

 

[jc456]

So because you have a pretty picture, there is a drought? Really, this proves your drought? holy crap again. Dude, you need to relax a bit.

There is a drought, it's California. Drought and fire are the two constants. 6 years of drought followed by a year of floods, followed by two moderate years. This is the way California is.

yep, so what? It isn't unprecendented is it? so again, so what? A pretty picture isn't going to change what the actual climate of the state is. Posting nonsense about the drought is nonsense.

 

[jc456]

It takes a special kind of insanity to start a thread proclaiming that California isn't really in a drought when every newspaper in the state is filled with stories about the severity of the drought and the state is under mandatory water use restrictions. 'Eekthetroll' posted that demented OP based, apparently, on some deranged paranoia over a old 1974 movie about political and economic shenanigans over water in LA in 1938.

It takes an even more special, politically motivated kind of insanity to post meaningless drivel in support of that crackpot OP, like ol' JustCrazy did.

Not nearly as insane as someone claiming that .14 degree f tmeperatures changes climate and causes sea levels to rise.

That would be insane....but, of course, you're ridiculously wrong, as usual, this time by a whole order of magnitude. Moron!

Since the early 20th century, the global air and sea surface temperature has increased about 0.8 °C (1.4 °F), with about two-thirds of the increase occurring since 1980.[5]
(source)

I'll agree to disagree with you. It is .08 degree C. prove me wrong! again go look at what affect 120PPM of CO2 increase is to the energy feedback.

 

[Uncensored2008]

yep, so what? It isn't unprecendented is it? so again, so what? A pretty picture isn't going to change what the actual climate of the state is. Posting nonsense about the drought is nonsense.

Not only is it not "unprecedented," drought in California is the precedent. A drought in California is about as meaningful as a twister in an Oklahoma trailer park.

This isn't even close to the worst drought I've seen, 1975 had this one beat to hell. Plus most of the issue this time is political, with Sacramento simply cutting off water supplied to the central valleys.

 

[elektra]

Everything is fine, as long as you are a rich wine producer, plenty of water to expand profits while at the same time the people are told we ain't got the water to flush the toilet or take a hot bath.

Irony?

A few things;

Many of the grapes are grown in the North, where there is plenty of water. Most of the issue with drought in in Southern California due to Brown and the ruling democrats shutting off delta water.

Secondly, grapes are generally grown with reclaimed water, which is not suitable for drinking.

politics is water in california, farmers lost 50% of their water before the so-called "drought".

 

[elektra]

It takes a special kind of insanity to start a thread proclaiming that California isn't really in a drought when every newspaper in the state is filled with stories about the severity of the drought and the state is under mandatory water use restrictions. 'Eekthetroll' posted that demented OP based, apparently, on some deranged paranoia over a old 1974 movie about political and economic shenanigans over water in LA in 1938.

It takes an even more special, politically motivated kind of insanity to post meaningless drivel in support of that crackpot OP, like ol' JustCrazy did.

Two above average years for grape production with links proving so is, "meaningless drivel".

RollingBlunder has an intelligence comprehension problem which leads to bouts of rage and rants.

Another blunder by rollingblunder, this thread is about california not suffering.

Read the title, its not, "California not suffering drought"

The title is, "California not suffering, drought?".

The difference us clear unless you are blinded with ridiculousness and rage over your opinion and politics.

Again, post the suffering, while we enjoy the fat above average vintage year for non-essential wine.

 

[Crick]

If you think grape harvests trump data like

you're whacked.