Caliber vs Shot placement

[Mr. P]

I agree and disagree. If I hit you in the hip with a .45 ACP Silvertip, it's going to spin you around at least so I can get another shot. A .22/.25 might not even slow you down. IMO, you have a greater margin for error with a larger caliber. But in the end, you DO have to drop your target.

I never have cared for Glazers. Too many possible limitations to its use. for instance, if you have to fire through your pocket, you're SOL. And I really don't put it past home invaders to be wearing body armor. In their place, I would.

But, but, that's illegal.

 

[Gunny]

But, but, that's illegal.

So's coming through my door without a pass, all of which I will do my best to render moot with a few, well-placed rounds.:2guns:

 

[Mr. P]

So's coming through my door without a pass, all of which I will do my best to render moot with a few, well-placed rounds.:2guns:

I know, Gunny. That was the point really.

 

[Ninja]

Newbie here, so I'll try not to step on any toes.

I'd rather hit a badguy on the pinkie with a .22 than miss him completely with a .50 BMG.

--snowman

 

[Shooter1/1]

so this is intresting to me, I have had this debate with students and other instructors on ranges from Moyock to Al, Hillah and I will give the same answer,
" if we are talking about handguns used by common shooters for self defense then the caliber best used is the caliber that you can put where you want it to go." you see no one is going to, in there right mind, defend themself with a .22ratshot however we can start this discussion somwhere around 9mm and up through the .357 one might say that the 40 would be a good tweener round but this fails to adress the massive chamber preasure and felt recoil you might not find in a 45. so to my students I now say, "find the round and pistol that you can hit the target with, hit that taget manytimes and as your taget becomes smaller and farther away and you are still hitting it you have found the right round for you. now shot placement under stress is the next class.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I agree and disagree. If I hit you in the hip with a .45 ACP Silvertip, it's going to spin you around at least so I can get another shot. A .22/.25 might not even slow you down. IMO, you have a greater margin for error with a larger caliber. But in the end, you DO have to drop your target.

I never have cared for Glazers. Too many possible limitations to its use. for instance, if you have to fire through your pocket, you're SOL. And I really don't put it past home invaders to be wearing body armor. In their place, I would.

Like I said, "You can be the best pistol shooter in the world and a .25 ACP still might not get the job done." I'm a huge advocate of big rounds, ie. .357 mag, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 sig. I only use glazers in my home due to children. I don't want penetration through walls. Its a risk I'm willing to take. Anywhere else it's Speer Gold Dots. I like Silvertips, but they are hard to come by.

 

[Shooter1/1]

I am not sure that Glazers are always the way to go. you have to take into account what you are shooting and what you are shooting at. not all pistols feed the Glazer well, just as some have poor ramp angles for hollow points. Body armor or a well placed phone book will stop the round and there for I am not 100% sold on it. I am wondering if the Air Martials are still giving the Glazers to agents on plains as that was it's first intended use. a better solution might be something on the order of a Ranger XST. it has less over-pen issues and dose a great job thwacking bad guys. All that being said, there is this great spot that you can aim, and if you are well trained with ANY arm it will produce results every time... it's called the face! from the upper lip to the eye-brow ridge. you hit the intruder or offender in that magic area and it will produce desired results on target. A great way to train to this standard is to put a 3X5 note card on your target backer and keep your rounds in that space. unless the bad guy is wearing a level III mask you will get the job done. and Mr. P, you can train to point shoot for the head, takes a lot of work, and ammo.

CSM, sorry to hear about the bent 9mm, damn armorers!

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I am not sure that Glazers are always the way to go. you have to take into account what you are shooting and what you are shooting at. not all pistols feed the Glazer well, just as some have poor ramp angles for hollow points. Body armor or a well placed phone book will stop the round and there for I am not 100% sold on it. I am wondering if the Air Martials are still giving the Glazers to agents on plains as that was it's first intended use. a better solution might be something on the order of a Ranger XST. it has less over-pen issues and dose a great job thwacking bad guys. All that being said, there is this great spot that you can aim, and if you are well trained with ANY arm it will produce results every time... it's called the face! from the upper lip to the eye-brow ridge. you hit the intruder or offender in that magic area and it will produce desired results on target. A great way to train to this standard is to put a 3X5 note card on your target backer and keep your rounds in that space. unless the bad guy is wearing a level III mask you will get the job done. and Mr. P, you can train to point shoot for the head, takes a lot of work, and ammo.

CSM, sorry to hear about the bent 9mm, damn armorers!

Pelvis is a better target. Bigger, less likely to be armored, and if the subject can't walk, they can't advance. Rangers are actually teaching this now as a variation of the Mozambique method.

As for Glazers, like I said, kids in the house, penetration through walls is a concern. I'm confident enough with a weapon to make shots count. I'd rather take a round than shoot my kids. I'll take my chances.

 

[Ninja]

Maybe this is a California thing, but I hear all types of nonsense on this subject at gun shops.

A while back on of the local FFLs was trying to sell me a Walther P22.

"I don't know man, some of my friends have had cycling issues with theirs, plus I'm not sure .22's a viable home defense round."

"What? .22's the BEST home defense round! You can just sit back and shoot burglars in the eye all day."

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Maybe this is a California thing, but I hear all types of nonsense on this subject at gun shops.

A while back on of the local FFLs was trying to sell me a Walther P22.

"I don't know man, some of my friends have had cycling issues with theirs, plus I'm not sure .22's a viable home defense round."

"What? .22's the BEST home defense round! You can just sit back and shoot burglars in the eye all day."

You're shitting me right?

 

[Ninja]

You're shitting me right?

Dead serious. I wouldn't go near the shop except that they have the best powder prices in town.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Dead serious. I wouldn't go near the shop except that they have the best powder prices in town.

Their FFL should be revoked. Bullshitting is one thing, but that i fuckin' retarded.

 

[Ninja]

I think it's a California thing. Gun shops around here seem to be the main source for disinformation within the gun community.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I think it's a California thing. Gun shops around here seem to be the main source for disinformation within the gun community.

must be

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have a 9 mm. I prefer it as I shot it all that time in the Marine Corps. I prefer more rounds and the 9 will stop most people. And if it does not you have 13 more to pump in to their ass after the first 2. Had a .45, wanted to love it, just couldn't. My first hand gun was a .357 Magnum revolver Single action at that ). And I had a 30 carbine single action as well , went well with my M1 Carbine, same round and all.

Had a shot gun, never got into them either, but they are good for close work. When I had it I loaded it with alternating slug/double 00.

I currently have 3 weapons. M1 Garand 30.06 with around 600 rounds of ammo, 19 clips. M1 Carbine 1100 rounds 2 30 round mags 4 15 round mags and a couple 10's and 5's. And my 9mm but almost no ammo for it. Mags are bad on it also. I got sick and left them loaded once for a very long time. ( paranoia will do that)

Haven't fired in at least 2 maybe 3 years and I am fat out of shape and sickly, Doctor likes me not playing but I really should lose some weight, get some stamina and shot some.

 

[Shooter1/1]

yeah the pelvic area is a good shot for two reasons. first it sets you up for a crown shot and two they are not advancing and are most likely going to blead out. a lot of the SOF community as well as LE and Feds are teaching it. this is not a new idea though, Jeff Cooper was a big proponent of the "Pelvic girddle" shot. It seems nothing is new in the gun fighting world just old ideas made new. I notice not too many people have brought up the carbine as a home defense tool. the other thing we seem to have left out is the impact of a good light source and how it can affect shot placement in low light situations.