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Wow. I'm seeing nothing here I haven't a gazillion times. I honestly don't neither Christian NOR atheists are capable of objectively evaluating history. The Christians have their usual idyllic interpretation of Christian history, the atheists have their usual agenda to disprove the historicity of Jesus. Nothing to see here.
Vespasian freed Josephus because his prophecies came true.
Vespasian then wanted to learn about the Jews and their religion.
Just because he wanted Josephus to write a book about the Jews does not prove that it is pro Roman propaganda.
It has become a misconception because of Josephus imperial patronage.
When you read his work he explains that he wanted Gentiles to know and learn about the Jews.
The site I put up is facts.
Sorry if you do not believe that the manuscripts are in the museums that it mentions.
Jesus did fulfill all of the prophesy. When it is pointed out to the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is their messiah they become Christian Jews.
You guys own 158 million deaths.And liberalism has killed far more people that Christianity ever could.Unfortunately, Christianity is still being used very much as its inventors envisioned -- to control the masses and to realize highly questionable political agendas (including war profiteering). The sooner it goes the way of the Greco/Roman mythology that preceded it ...the better.
really? more than right wing nut fascists did?
You guys own 158 million deaths.And liberalism has killed far more people that Christianity ever could.
really? more than right wing nut fascists did?
wow......................................................................................................................................
"When people stop believing in God, they then do not believe in nothing.... they will believe in anything." (G.K. Chesterton)
You guys own 158 million deaths.really? more than right wing nut fascists did?
if you say so.
", you will fail.
Wow. I'm seeing nothing here I haven't a gazillion times. I honestly don't neither Christian NOR atheists are capable of objectively evaluating history. The Christians have their usual idyllic interpretation of Christian history, the atheists have their usual agenda to disprove the historicity of Jesus. Nothing to see here.
i'm not an atheist.
i have no doubt Yeshua existed as a person. i simply don't believe he was the messiah. that isn't the same thing as being an atheist... as i do believe in G-d.
but thanks for the input, anyway.
maybe if you don't pre-judge what you're reading, you won't think you're seeing nothing informative or new.
I made my case in the linked thread. Go dispute it if you can.
But if all you have is "
You fail.if you say so.
I made my case in the linked thread. Go dispute it if you can.
But if all you have is "
the 'linked thread' was a nonsensical opinion piece based on a ridiculous basic premise.
Vespasian freed Josephus because his prophecies came true.
Vespasian then wanted to learn about the Jews and their religion.
Just because he wanted Josephus to write a book about the Jews does not prove that it is pro Roman propaganda.
It has become a misconception because of Josephus imperial patronage.
When you read his work he explains that he wanted Gentiles to know and learn about the Jews.
The site I put up is facts.
Sorry if you do not believe that the manuscripts are in the museums that it mentions.
Jesus did fulfill all of the prophesy. When it is pointed out to the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is their messiah they become Christian Jews.
Christian ministries sites are not 'fact'. they are BELIEF. that's fine. but you should know the difference between the two.
he didn't fulfill theprophesy. the temple hasn't been rebuilt. none of the things that were supposed to happen either before or after the coming of the messiah have happened.
who says the manicscripts don't exist?
i think you need to get over the fact that others' don't share your BELIEFS and deal with the history.
Vespasian freed Josephus because his prophecies came true.
Vespasian then wanted to learn about the Jews and their religion.
Just because he wanted Josephus to write a book about the Jews does not prove that it is pro Roman propaganda.
It has become a misconception because of Josephus imperial patronage.
When you read his work he explains that he wanted Gentiles to know and learn about the Jews.
The site I put up is facts.
Sorry if you do not believe that the manuscripts are in the museums that it mentions.
Jesus did fulfill all of the prophesy. When it is pointed out to the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is their messiah they become Christian Jews.
Christian ministries sites are not 'fact'. they are BELIEF. that's fine. but you should know the difference between the two.
he didn't fulfill theprophesy. the temple hasn't been rebuilt. none of the things that were supposed to happen either before or after the coming of the messiah have happened.
who says the manicscripts don't exist?
i think you need to get over the fact that others' don't share your BELIEFS and deal with the history.
What I stated is historical facts.
Yes Christian sites are about belief's, but what I put up is facts about the manuscripts.
Just because it's a Christian site does not mean that it is just full of beliefs.
You are using you own beliefs and not facts.
The temple will be rebuilt in the future. This is a belief.
All of the things prophesied have happened.
That the word of God would be preached to the whole world. That the Jews would have their Nation.
That Ethiopian Jews would return.
That there will be increase in Knowledge.
That Earthquakes, Volcano's and violent storms would become worse and worse.
That Nation would rise against Nation and there will be wars and rumors of wars.
Good will be called evil and Evil will be called Good.
All of it is happening.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
Wow. I'm seeing nothing here I haven't a gazillion times. I honestly don't neither Christian NOR atheists are capable of objectively evaluating history. The Christians have their usual idyllic interpretation of Christian history, the atheists have their usual agenda to disprove the historicity of Jesus. Nothing to see here.
Christian ministries sites are not 'fact'. they are BELIEF. that's fine. but you should know the difference between the two.
he didn't fulfill theprophesy. the temple hasn't been rebuilt. none of the things that were supposed to happen either before or after the coming of the messiah have happened.
who says the manicscripts don't exist?
i think you need to get over the fact that others' don't share your BELIEFS and deal with the history.
What I stated is historical facts.
Yes Christian sites are about belief's, but what I put up is facts about the manuscripts.
Just because it's a Christian site does not mean that it is just full of beliefs.
You are using you own beliefs and not facts.
The temple will be rebuilt in the future. This is a belief.
All of the things prophesied have happened.
That the word of God would be preached to the whole world. That the Jews would have their Nation.
That Ethiopian Jews would return.
That there will be increase in Knowledge.
That Earthquakes, Volcano's and violent storms would become worse and worse.
That Nation would rise against Nation and there will be wars and rumors of wars.
Good will be called evil and Evil will be called Good.
All of it is happening.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
All of many things are happening. It still falls into the realm of belief, belief that these things fulfill a prophecy. My primary problem with revealed religion and belief in prophecy is that interpretation is heavily involved, so much so that there have been major schisms within Christianity because of it.
Don't get me wrong, some of these things are noteworthy, but some of them really are not.
The increase in knowledge and travel in Daniel, which is interpreted as prophecy by much of Christianity, is problematic because it was written in the midst of the explosion of the Hellenistic Period and the early rise of Rome. In context, these periods of great expansion, learning, and influence of both these eras easily fits the criteria spoken of in Daniel. Was it prophecy? Maybe, but it could easily be seen as simply observing what was going on at the time and drawing out a natural conclusion. Afterall, it was written after the exploits of Alexander the Great were well-known, so is it much of a stretch to predict an increase in travel and knowledge?
Extreme weather and volcanoes? I don't know. Maybe. Before weather patterns and trends were seriously recorded, it's a bit difficult to say if current activity is outstanding in the stretch of our Earth's history. Even establishing that current activity is truly outstanding in the scope of history since these prophecies were written is dubious. The Ancient Romans wrote of wine vineyards in England when the weather was warm enough there for it, and again there are records of them in England in the 11th Century. To think that such drastic pattern changes didn't coincide with peaks and valleys in extreme weather globally at the times seems a bit naive. Today, there are people everywhere, and they have cameras. We see bizarre weather phenomena almost in real time. None of that makes recent weather trends outstanding in the scope of human history.
That Nation would rise against Nation and there will be wars and rumors of wars? Sorry, but that's the sum of human history, partner. That is to be considered prophetic?
That evil will be called good and good will be called evil? Mmmm. Unless I am mistaken, the only place that notion appears is in Isaiah, and the language is hardly prophetic. Again, the Roman persecution of Jews and Christians easily ties into this passage and needs not be seen as a prophecy, unless somebody needs it to be, in which case, it is.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
Again, does the Roman Empire ring a bell? Why didn't the world end 2000 years ago? I mean, Mt Vesuvius provides you with your increased volcanic activity, as does the bizarre weather patterns that allowed for wine vineyards in England. All of it coincides quite nicely.
I'm not trying to prove the Bible wrong, nor am I claiming that the Bible is not prophetic. All I'm saying is that predictions of the end times are nothing new. People have been making them for thousands of years, sometimes using the Bible as their inspiration. So, I suppose my beefs aren't so much with the Bible as they are with people and their general nuttiness.
What I stated is historical facts.
Yes Christian sites are about belief's, but what I put up is facts about the manuscripts.
Just because it's a Christian site does not mean that it is just full of beliefs.
You are using you own beliefs and not facts.
The temple will be rebuilt in the future. This is a belief.
All of the things prophesied have happened.
That the word of God would be preached to the whole world. That the Jews would have their Nation.
That Ethiopian Jews would return.
That there will be increase in Knowledge.
That Earthquakes, Volcano's and violent storms would become worse and worse.
That Nation would rise against Nation and there will be wars and rumors of wars.
Good will be called evil and Evil will be called Good.
All of it is happening.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
All of many things are happening. It still falls into the realm of belief, belief that these things fulfill a prophecy. My primary problem with revealed religion and belief in prophecy is that interpretation is heavily involved, so much so that there have been major schisms within Christianity because of it.
Don't get me wrong, some of these things are noteworthy, but some of them really are not.
The increase in knowledge and travel in Daniel, which is interpreted as prophecy by much of Christianity, is problematic because it was written in the midst of the explosion of the Hellenistic Period and the early rise of Rome. In context, these periods of great expansion, learning, and influence of both these eras easily fits the criteria spoken of in Daniel. Was it prophecy? Maybe, but it could easily be seen as simply observing what was going on at the time and drawing out a natural conclusion. Afterall, it was written after the exploits of Alexander the Great were well-known, so is it much of a stretch to predict an increase in travel and knowledge?
Extreme weather and volcanoes? I don't know. Maybe. Before weather patterns and trends were seriously recorded, it's a bit difficult to say if current activity is outstanding in the stretch of our Earth's history. Even establishing that current activity is truly outstanding in the scope of history since these prophecies were written is dubious. The Ancient Romans wrote of wine vineyards in England when the weather was warm enough there for it, and again there are records of them in England in the 11th Century. To think that such drastic pattern changes didn't coincide with peaks and valleys in extreme weather globally at the times seems a bit naive. Today, there are people everywhere, and they have cameras. We see bizarre weather phenomena almost in real time. None of that makes recent weather trends outstanding in the scope of human history.
That Nation would rise against Nation and there will be wars and rumors of wars? Sorry, but that's the sum of human history, partner. That is to be considered prophetic?
That evil will be called good and good will be called evil? Mmmm. Unless I am mistaken, the only place that notion appears is in Isaiah, and the language is hardly prophetic. Again, the Roman persecution of Jews and Christians easily ties into this passage and needs not be seen as a prophecy, unless somebody needs it to be, in which case, it is.
Men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Christians will be under attack and killed.
Again, does the Roman Empire ring a bell? Why didn't the world end 2000 years ago? I mean, Mt Vesuvius provides you with your increased volcanic activity, as does the bizarre weather patterns that allowed for wine vineyards in England. All of it coincides quite nicely.
I'm not trying to prove the Bible wrong, nor am I claiming that the Bible is not prophetic. All I'm saying is that predictions of the end times are nothing new. People have been making them for thousands of years, sometimes using the Bible as their inspiration. So, I suppose my beefs aren't so much with the Bible as they are with people and their general nuttiness.
Everyone who has predicted end times did not have the two keys that really make end times true,which is the word must be spread to the whole world and that Israel became a nation, with Ethiopian Jews coming back the Israel. As well as all Jews all around the world.
Revelation was written after the second Temple was destroyed and Jews became scattered.
Israel became a Nation again after 2,000 years.
Ethiopian Jews were still living in Ethiopia in the time of Rome 2,000 years ago. So that is why the world did not end 2,000 yrs ago.
Even the deciples thought that end times was going to happen while they were alive.
Anyone can choose to believe or not to believe in the warnings of end times.
I was just stating what the Bible says about end times.
People will always want to justify what they want to believe. They always have and they will. It's just human nature.
A couple of things has been left out of what he says.
First -
the Work's of Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews and a History of the Jewish Wars, describes how Jesus looked. That he says the man did exist.
Second - there is evidence of Aramaic manuals.
"Is It True That Some NT Documents were First Written in Aramaic/Syriac and THEN in Greek?" - Probe Ministries
Textually speaking, there is little manuscript evidence to substantiate an Aramaic precedent over the Greek. There are however, ten different Syriac manuscript sources which have survived, dating from the fifth to the tenth centuries A.D. The earliest, a palimpsest written in the 4th or 5th century, is the oldest extant manuscript which is a representative of the Old Syriac translation (which probably originated around 200 A.D). All of these manuscripts give evidence of having borrowed from pre-existing sources--the Hebrew, the Greek Septuagint, or the Massoretic tradition.
By far the best Aramaic specimen of the Syriac Peshitta is found in the Ambrosian Library in Milan, and dates from the sixth or seventh century A.D. Close behind is one in the British Museum in London which dates from the ninth or tenth century A.D.
First -
the Work's of Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews and a History of the Jewish Wars, describes how Jesus looked.
