But, Aren't Nazis and Fascists Really Left-Wingers?

[L.K.Eder]

You can't just give a word a new meaning because you don't like the original one or because the history behind it is unappealing.

Think about this for a minute; you're trying to tell us all that Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Merriam-Webster, Wikipedia, Econlib, ect.. Are all wrong in their definition of socialism?

Because it sure as hell isn't what you're trying to sell us.

hilarious. hahahahaha

It is. Franco here is trying to tell us that the Communist Manifesto is in reality Right-Wing Propaganda.

you have no idea why i laughed at your post, right?

bizarre

 

[francoHFW]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. My World Book 1960 says socialism is always democratic, so does every European socialist. The dictionary definitions given here make no difference between them- ridiculous. Europeans tend to call it social democracy now to stop getting involved in RW American cold war dinosaur idiocy.

 

[tooAlive]

hilarious. hahahahaha

It is. Franco here is trying to tell us that the Communist Manifesto is in reality Right-Wing Propaganda.

you have no idea why i laughed at your post, right?

bizarre

I had a feeling, given your previous posts.

Nonetheless, I turned it into something useful.

 

[francoHFW]

You can't just give a word a new meaning because you don't like the original one or because the history behind it is unappealing.

Think about this for a minute; you're trying to tell us all that Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Merriam-Webster, Wikipedia, Econlib, ect.. Are all wrong in their definition of socialism?

Because it sure as hell isn't what you're trying to sell us.

hilarious. hahahahaha

It is. Franco here is trying to tell us that the Communist Manifesto is in reality Right-Wing Propaganda.

Left Wing propaganda, dimwit. But you chumps fall for ALL extremist propaganda. LOL

 

[tooAlive]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. My World Book 1960 says socialism is always democratic, so does every European socialist. The dictionary definitions given here make no difference between them- ridiculous. Europeans tend to call it social democracy now to stop getting involved in RW American cold war dinosaur idiocy.

Can you explain to me what is democratic about having the government control the economy and possess all property?

This isn't about the cold war; it's about words and what their definitions are.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. My World Book 1960 says socialism is always democratic, so does every European socialist. The dictionary definitions given here make no difference between them- ridiculous. Europeans tend to call it social democracy now to stop getting involved in RW American cold war dinosaur idiocy.

the social democratic party of germany (SPD) easily precedes the cold war.

europeans don't adapt their political concepts to american mood swings.

 

[francoHFW]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. My World Book 1960 says socialism is always democratic, so does every European socialist. The dictionary definitions given here make no difference between them- ridiculous. Europeans tend to call it social democracy now to stop getting involved in RW American cold war dinosaur idiocy.

Can you explain to me what is democratic about having the government control the economy and possess all property?

This isn't about the cold war; it's about words and what their definitions are.

Yup. Socialism is democratic. , for years now. You're talking about communism.

 

[francoHFW]

I see the libs kept rambling on about Hitler being a right-winger, yet none of them bothered to refute any of this.

Communism and fascism are essentially the same thing. Persecution of certain individuals, extreme government oppression, ect.. Having both of these on each extremity of the political spectrum is useless, as the "spectrum" would then serve no purpose. You can't have the same letter at both ends of the alphabet.

Yes, of course, they're both totalitarian and horrible. The reason Nazism is RW is because it keeps the corporations and is in partnership with them- That's why it it is just a giant totalitarian step from conservatism- that's FASCISM.

Communism folds all industry and commerce into the government. Nobody's for that anymore, except under duress...hell never was put in without violent revolution.

My goodness.. Are you serious?

The Nazis had control over the corporations. The Nazis controlled what the corporations produced. The Nazis controlled what wages were paid by those corporations. The Nazis controlled who got to live in private property. Are those right-wing ideologies?

Is that all RW propaganda too?

Serious, and correct. That's called totalitarianism- RW totalitarianism, ie Fascism, subcategory Nazism.

 

[Cowman]

You can't just give a word a new meaning because you don't like the original one or because the history behind it is unappealing.

Think about this for a minute; you're trying to tell us all that Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Merriam-Webster, Wikipedia, Econlib, ect.. Are all wrong in their definition of socialism?

Because it sure as hell isn't what you're trying to sell us.

hilarious. hahahahaha

It is. Franco here is trying to tell us that the Communist Manifesto is in reality Right-Wing Propaganda.

Communism is LEFT WING, you fucking idiot. He wasn't saying what you're claiming he was saying.

You guys are so caught up in your desire to defend what you perceive as "right wing" and so you can't possibly have any really bad things be in your region of the ideological divide.

Well guess what? Real people understand that just because something is left wing or right wing, it doesn't mean it has anything to do with you. The categorization as left wing and right wing is so fucking broad it's mindblowing. I have no problem with the fact that horribly oppressive communist regimes were left wing. They were terrible and always will be terrible. It's left wing and I acknowledge that. I don't try to fabricate some fairy tale that all the bad stuff is opposite of left wing. Left wing ideology is capable of producing some terrible things. Same thing with right wing ideology.

Shit isn't all sunshine and giggles. Fascism happens to lie on the right side of the political spectrum, and communism lies on the left. The two have been diametrically opposed in theory and in execution.

But no... Nazism is called National Socialism so it must be the same thing as socialism!

Derp.

 

[Doc91678]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. My World Book 1960 says socialism is always democratic, so does every European socialist. The dictionary definitions given here make no difference between them- ridiculous. Europeans tend to call it social democracy now to stop getting involved in RW American cold war dinosaur idiocy.

Can you explain to me what is democratic about having the government control the economy and possess all property?

This isn't about the cold war; it's about words and what their definitions are.

Yup. Socialism is democratic. , for years now. You're talking about communism.

------------------------------------------------------------------




By Bruce Walker
November 25, 2007


The Nazis were Marxists, no matter what our tainted academia and corrupt media wishes us to believe. Nazis, Bolsheviks, the Ku Klux Klan, Maoists, radical Islam and Facists -- all are on the Left, something that should be increasingly apparent to decent, honorable people in our times. The Big Lie which places Nazis on some mythical Far Right was created specifically so that there would be a bogeyman manacled on the wrists of those who wish us to move "too far" in the direction of Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater.

**snip**

Continue reading ---->
Archived-Articles: The Nazis Were Marxists

 

[tooAlive]

Shit isn't all sunshine and giggles. Fascism happens to lie on the right side of the political spectrum, and communism lies on the left. The two have been diametrically opposed in theory and in execution.

But no... Nazism is called National Socialism so it must be the same thing as socialism!

You keep saying it, but not once have you been able to demonstrate how communism and fascism are any different.

Anarchy on the other hand is diametrically opposed to both those systems, and should be on the extreme right. So no, we aren't trying to "purge" the right of any undesirable political ideologies as anarchy is just as bad as anything on the extreme left.

 

[tooAlive]

Can you explain to me what is democratic about having the government control the economy and possess all property?

This isn't about the cold war; it's about words and what their definitions are.

Yup. Socialism is democratic. , for years now. You're talking about communism.

------------------------------------------------------------------




By Bruce Walker
November 25, 2007


The Nazis were Marxists, no matter what our tainted academia and corrupt media wishes us to believe. Nazis, Bolsheviks, the Ku Klux Klan, Maoists, radical Islam and Facists -- all are on the Left, something that should be increasingly apparent to decent, honorable people in our times. The Big Lie which places Nazis on some mythical Far Right was created specifically so that there would be a bogeyman manacled on the wrists of those who wish us to move "too far" in the direction of Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater.

**snip**

Continue reading ---->
Archived-Articles: The Nazis Were Marxists

Another fantastic post that hits the nail on the head.

 

[Cowman]

Shit isn't all sunshine and giggles. Fascism happens to lie on the right side of the political spectrum, and communism lies on the left. The two have been diametrically opposed in theory and in execution.

But no... Nazism is called National Socialism so it must be the same thing as socialism!

You keep saying it, but not once have you been able to demonstrate how communism and fascism are any different.

Anarchy on the other hand is diametrically opposed to both those systems, and should be on the extreme right. So no, we aren't trying to "purge" the right of any undesirable political ideologies as anarchy is just as bad as anything on the extreme left.

What, you mean other than the fact that Socialists and Fascists have frequently been opposed to each other?

Maybe you're not familiar with Giustizia e Libertà, a liberal socialist group dedicated to fighting fascism in Italy during WW2.

Maybe the fact that the leading fascist groups, such as the Nazi Party and those of Benito Mussolini who distanced themselves from and felt opposed to Socialism as it was known. They were both avowed enemies of the classical Marxist socialism. which is an offshoot of the type of socialism people refer to today when they say "socialist".

Mussolini himself said that Socialism as a doctrine was dead. Hitler and Mussolini were both individuals that felt socialism was wrong and that they knew the proper way, and what they had devised was better in every way and that Marxism was wrong.

But you seem to think that national socialists and socialists were the same?

They killed each other, they politically aligned themselves against each other, because they were VERY different.

Who is the ignorant ape here? Who is the historically inept? Who is the person who doesn't seem to know a single god damn thing about fascism and socialism? I'm telling you how the two greatest fascist figureheads felt about socialism, and how they chose to lead their national socialist in opposition of it... and yet you say there's no difference?

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[Pogo]

Yup. Socialism is democratic. , for years now. You're talking about communism.

------------------------------------------------------------------




By Bruce Walker
November 25, 2007


The Nazis were Marxists, no matter what our tainted academia and corrupt media wishes us to believe. Nazis, Bolsheviks, the Ku Klux Klan, Maoists, radical Islam and Facists -- all are on the Left, something that should be increasingly apparent to decent, honorable people in our times. The Big Lie which places Nazis on some mythical Far Right was created specifically so that there would be a bogeyman manacled on the wrists of those who wish us to move "too far" in the direction of Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater.

**snip**

Continue reading ---->
Archived-Articles: The Nazis Were Marxists

Another fantastic post that hits the nail on the head.

Uh - not exactly. Something hit this Bruce Walker on the head. The Nazis fought against Communists, both inside and outside Germany. Right from the beginning.

After the Reichstag Fire on 27th February, 1933, the Nazi Party launched a wave of violence against members of the German Communist Party and other left-wing opponents of the regime. This included Thälmann (the Communist Party Presidential candidate the previous year) who was arrested and imprisoned on 3rd March 1933

(link)

Only in Bruce Walker's perverted fantasy world where everything that is socially unacceptable moves over there on the other guy's side, even philosophies diametrically opposed, do such false equivalencies exist.. Bruce Walker has his head up his ass. To pretend that only one's opponent side has extremists is proof enough of that. Apparently there are some still walking around trying the theory that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. Doesn't work. You have convinced only yourself, and wishful thinking still does not trump reality.

The Nazis were indeed the extreme right. If that truth is inconvenient, do something about it. But do something more honest --this is pathetic.

 

[tooAlive]

Who is the ignorant ape here? Who is the historically inept? Who is the person who doesn't seem to know a single god damn thing about fascism and socialism? I'm telling you how the two greatest fascist figureheads felt about socialism, and how they chose to lead their national socialist in opposition of it... and yet you say there's no difference?

Are you fucking kidding me?

We've been over that very same point; it's a strawman argument.

All I'm asking is that you answer a very simple question.

How is what Hitler did any different from the principles of socialism as outlined by Karl Marx?

The Nazis controlled the corporations, what the corporations produced, who ran the corporations, the wages paid by corporations, the prices charged by corporations, and even dictated who got to have "private property." Which also happened to be controlled by the state, since they could seize it at any time.

Again, I understand that they killed "socialists" left and right, along with communists, capitalists, Jews, homosexuals, and any other individual deemed undesirable. However, their own actions put them in the same category as the very people they were persecuting.

 

[tooAlive]

The Nazis were indeed the extreme right. If that truth is inconvenient, do something about it. But do something more honest --this is pathetic.

If the Nazis were on the extreme right, then where does anarchy fall? In the middle?

Because you surely can't have anarchy together with fascism or communism; they're polar opposites.

 

[Pogo]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. .

Oh that ain't true. Any kind of gummint or social philosophy can be taken to the extreme of totalitarianism but that's got nothing to do with the philosophy itself, unless the philosophy is nothing more than power-hungry dictatorship.

There's a religious sect called the Hutterites (Hutterian Bretheren) settled in western Canada, the Dakotas and Montana. They run their colonies under a near-totally communist system; no private property, all work and assets belong to the collective, etc. But at the same time they are the antithesis of authoritarian, with a Minister and elected Council heading the operation and votes on community decisions. A communistic democracy.

Communism and authoritarianism are like fish and bicycles: unrelated to each other. We tend to look at historical examples of the USSR or Cuba and confuse the underlying social philosophy with the way they went about implementing it, but they're two different things.

 

[tooAlive]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism, in practice ALWAYS totalitarian. .

Oh that ain't true. Any kind of gummint or social philosophy can be taken to the extreme of totalitarianism but that's got nothing to do with the philosophy itself, unless the philosophy is nothing more than power-hungry dictatorship.

There's a religious sect called the Hutterites (Hutterian Bretheren) settled in western Canada, the Dakotas and Montana. They run their colonies under a near-totally communist system; no private property, all work and assets belong to the collective, etc. But at the same time they are the antithesis of authoritarian, with a Minister and elected Council heading the operation and votes on community decisions. A communistic democracy.

Communism and authoritarianism are like fish and bicycles: unrelated to each other. We tend to look at historical examples of the USSR or Cuba and confuse the underlying social philosophy with the way they went about implementing it, but they're two different things.

You're right about that. True communism is described as being class-less, state-less, and money-less. Without a state there would be no authoritarianism. I suppose you could look at it as a form of money-less anarchy.

The reason communism is regarded as being totalitarian is because there's absolutely no way to implement it without having an oppressive, authoritarian state to enforce "equality" and "collectivism."

The people in the religious sect you're talking about have voluntarily decided to live in that communist system. The problem comes when you try to force everyone to live the same way. Many will naturally refuse, which is why communism needs a state.

 

[Pogo]

The Nazis were indeed the extreme right. If that truth is inconvenient, do something about it. But do something more honest --this is pathetic.

If the Nazis were on the extreme right, then where does anarchy fall? In the middle?

Because you surely can't have anarchy together with fascism or communism; they're polar opposites.

Not really. Anarchy is to fascism and communism as atheism is to Christianity and Islam-- the second two are flavors of something, the first is the absence of it.

Funny that you protest polar opposites here, yet want to comingle fascism and communism -- which really are polar oppositesr.

AmyNation posted this graph back on page one:

See how "anarchy" is off the scale? That means it's not on the same playing field.

 

[tooAlive]

The Nazis were indeed the extreme right. If that truth is inconvenient, do something about it. But do something more honest --this is pathetic.

If the Nazis were on the extreme right, then where does anarchy fall? In the middle?

Because you surely can't have anarchy together with fascism or communism; they're polar opposites.

Not really. Anarchy is to fascism and communism as atheism is to Christianity and Islam-- the second two are flavors of something, the first is the absence of it.

Funny that you protest polar opposites here, yet want to comingle fascism and communism -- which really are polar oppositesr.

AmyNation posted this graph back on page one:

See how "anarchy" is off the scale? That means it's not on the same playing field.

I actually started another thread entirely about that very subject.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...political-spectrum-and-why-it-is-correct.html