Buffet rule passage would cost us jobs

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

To the contrary, increasing the INCOME tax rate on millionaires would facilitate them to keep more money in their businesses, rather than using it to buy their fourth mansion or another Caddy for their wives.

I wonder how those blue collar construction workers would feel about having less homes to build. I wonder how those unionized auto workers at General Motors would feel if they had less Cadillacs to build.

 

[JRK]

To the contrary, increasing the INCOME tax rate on millionaires would facilitate them to keep more money in their businesses, rather than using it to buy their fourth mansion or another Caddy for their wives.

I wonder how those blue collar construction workers would feel about having less homes to build. I wonder how those unionized auto workers at General Motors would feel if they had less Cadillacs to build.

Thats trickle down
from the person who makes the faucet to the sales commission on the caddy
BTW
Business expense has 0 to do with the buffet tax. thats IS THE issue
Most monies used to invest in capital gains has been taxed at east once

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you hire staff or invest in capital equipment, that's a legitimate business deduction, that ought to result in building wealth. Taking a tax dodge like sending your money to some off-shore shelter is something that ought to be stopped for simple tax fairness.

You are incorrect.
Capital gains can be realized by many many things. The sale of property is an example.
The receipt of a stock dividend is a capital gain. The majority of Americans who receive capital gains are not bazillionaires hiding their money off shore( As if it's any of your fucking business), they are ordinary Americans.
Once again, another lib socialist buys into class warfare.
Now....a lesson...There is no such thing as tax fairness. As with others on your side, you do not view taxation as a means to raise revenue. You view it as a means to punish those who YOU believe have "to much" or "more than they need"...You weep and snivel over this foreign notion of "fairness"..There is no "fair". Life is not fair. And it should not be. Not in the context used by the Left. You think it just is "not fair" for one to have more than another. More accurately you think no one should have "more than you". Your jealousy is incredible.
The problem your side had is you people just cannot mind your own fucking business.

Nice moving of the goal posts. You're the one who claimed that increasing "INCOME" tax for millionaires would result in job loss. You simply haven't a clue on business accounting. To the contrary, increasing the INCOME tax rate on millionaires would facilitate them to keep more money in their businesses, rather than using it to buy their fourth mansion or another Caddy for their wives.

Yeah yeah yeah..Whenever you libs get your asses kicked on the facts you accuse others of 'moving the goal posts'....You're out of bullets Kool -Aid boy.
BTW you fucking molester of logic, I stated NO SUCH THING.. And I run a successful small business. You lefties are never short on assumptions.
It is none of your God damned business what a private individual does with their money.
How come you don't have a bitch fit over how Al Gore spends HIS money?
Taxation REMOVES wealth from the economy. Period. Taxation stimulates NOTHING but more wasteful government spending on garbage we don't need.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Capital gains are taxed at the corporate level prior to being taxed at the individual shareholder level.

ROTFL that would mean that ALL income from working is double taxes because first it is taxes at the corporate level and then a the income level.

That is essentially correct.
That's not my position at all. I'm not sure where you got that from. You assume an awful lot.

If it is not your position the why the hell did you say that cpaital gains are double taxed? Where you knowing lying?

Where do you think the $16 trillion in debt came from? If we have the money why are we in debt?

ROTFL you've never heard of loans have you?

When people discuss raising taxes on the rich, they are referring to taxes on their income and most families making less than $50k a year aren't paying anything.

So according to you pay 26% of your income in taxes is paying nothing. Clearly you do not know what the definition of nothing is.
Who Pays Taxes in America?

Raising the top tier tax rate or the capital gains rate will not result in a lower income tax rate for the "poor" nor a lower rate in any other form of taxation.

God how many times do I have to tell you it either results in lower taxes for the poor or more services for the poor in which both increase living standards.

Regarding your link, you're going to have to cite the specific page(s) you are getting your information from. I work for a living and cannot sort through a 57 page document to find one statistic. I gave you that courtesy in another thread when I used one of your PDF links.

Figure 3 page 49. The middle class has seen their taxes increase by around 16% since 1980.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The federal government is one gigantic entity. The private sector is made up of thousands of entities, many of which strategically leverage debt in order to build and expand their growth. It's actually quite common. The difference is they typically get a positive return for that debt, whereas the federal government does not.

Incorrect as usual the increase in debt since 2010 has resulted in the saving of 20million job years. Plus investments in the stimulus will save the total economy around 2.5trillion dollars over ten years. Furthermore lots of government spending creates more benefits then the costs. These include NASA, research, pre-school, energy efficiency programs, clean energy production, transportation, Ameircorps, planned parenthood, the MEP, the FNF, commodity check offs, WIC etc etc etc

The multiple failures of these so called "green energy" companies that have gone bankrupt after receiving billions in government funding are a perfect example of what I am speaking of. Private sector companies would almost never make such foolish investments because they'd go out of business.

ROTFL Lets look at the green energy loans in their whole instead of cherry picking the data.
1) Less then 5% of loans to green energy companies went to companies that went bankrupt which is more then half the rate of bankruptcies for private lending
2) Government green energy loans creates 4-8$ in private lending for every 1$ of government investment.
Top 25 Largest Banks - with Highest Default Rate Home Loan Portfolios - Quarterly
Brookings: "DOE

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/52739.pdf
^9 billion dollars used for wind/solar grants created 75,000 jobs, and 25billion dollars in increased economic activity.

North American PV Installs Set to Double in 2011. Will Congress Let the Successful Grant Program End? | ThinkProgress
^The governments solar industry grant program (1603) has resulted in 23 billion in leveraged investment from the private sector creating 22,000 projects, and doubling solar production in 2011. Extending the program through 2016 would create over 40,000 jobs

So according to you creating jobs, saving money and increase economic output is a failure

Further more government controlled health care, utilities, charity, insurance, schools, transportation, prisons, retirement and courts all are more efficient then their private sector counter parts

That is an opinion and not a fact. Tuition to a private school is typically far less than what a public school spends on each student and the results at the private school are usually far better.

Wrong like usually.
For-Profit Colleges Spend Much Less On Educating Students Than Public Universities
^For profit colleges spend less than a third on educating students then public university’s even though for profit colleges have tuition costs that are double those of public universities.
GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.
About Those Milwaukee Vouchers | ThinkProgress
^Milwaukee students who take vouchers and go to private schools score anywhere from 10-30% lower on standardized tests.

Public Schools Outperform Private Schools in Math Instruction
^ILL researchers have found that public school students outscore private score students in math because public schools have more certified teachers, and curriculum that de-emphasized learning by rote methods.

Many doctors won't even take Medicare patients anymore.

Actually more doctors take Medicare then private insurance. Those with Medicare are 70% more likely to be accepted then those on private insurance
Who's Afraid Of Public Insurance? - Mark Blumenthal - NationalJournal.com

Most public transit agencies are government run and grossly inefficient and expensive for the services they provide. There isn't a single subway system in the country that is profitable and they are all government run.

Again you're wrong
What We Learned From The Stimulus | Smart Growth America
^Public transportation creates twice the amount of jobs that roads and highway infrastructure dose.
Little engine that saves money | StarTribune.com
^MN transit rail is 30 cents per mile cheaper than using cars/busses.
Environmental Law & Policy Center : Benefits of high speed rail
^Rail spending creates 1.7-2.5 dollars in benefits for every dollar spent.

Study: Economic benefits of Kansas-Oklahoma rail service would far outweigh cost | High Speed Rail Updates
^The cost benefit ratio for a high speed rail from Kansas to Oklahoma would be 1: 3.2.
Congestion and the real value of public transit - The Washington Post
^New report shows that the reduced congestion caused by increased public transportation effectively pays for itself. This means when you include the other benefits and specific use of public transportation , public transportation saves the economy more money than it costs.

As for the others you mention, charity and retirement, well there you're just running your mouth and seeing what will stick. You have no evidence whatsoever to make either of those claims. You seem to believe that because you say something it magically makes it true.

Nope actually I'm just stating facts
Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

----So like I said before come back when you have the ability to think and have a basic clue about what you are talking about[----

We've found on this forum that the people who spend the most time telling others how uninformed and dumb they are, are the usually the very people who are the most uninformed and dumb.

Like I said before come back when you've got a clue.

 

[starcraftzzz]

ROTFL so according to you changing the tax system so that 50% of the population is in poverty (IE anyone making 35,000 or less) is the fix; not to mention it would result in the rich paying 10 times less in taxes the those in poverty

That's not what he said at all. You really like your Straw Man arguments. Usually people who engage in logical fallacies do so because they either don't understand what is being discussed or they can't defend their position.

Furthermore, virtually nobody in this country lives in poverty.

No dumbass you said we should make it so taxes all come from sales taxes of which would result in half the population going into poverty and poor people paying 10 times more in taxes the rich people.
Again me stating the effects of your policy preferences isn't strawmanning its tell you the truth that you're to stupid to realize

 

[JRK]

whats a matter star
cannot get anyone to reply?
GO AWAY

 

[starcraftzzz]

Please start a thread on this one and post your claims.

This should be rich.

The government manages money better than the private sector.

ROTFLMAO

You are past being a jackass and are now officially a zealot.

Only the biggest of Obamadicksuckers would say something this stupid.

ROTFL like always you are a dumbass who has an IQ of 50
Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly
Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.
Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

Yes you are a clulees retard

You have a room temperature IQ.
Look, you're wrong 100%. If you choose to kneel at the federal government altar, that is YOUR problem. Do not be so presumptuous as to believe the rest of us must do the same.
We have a Constitution which limits the powers of government. You wish to live or more accurately, exist, not as a citizen, but as a subject of government.
Well you can take that shove into your luggage and move the fuck out of the US.
Government....Pfffft....

See this is why you are a dumbass. You think responding to actual research, data and statistics with "you are 100% wrong" is an adequate refutation of those facts.

 

[starcraftzzz]

whats a matter star
cannot get anyone to reply?
GO AWAY

The thing I cant do is get you to learn basic English. But I guess given that your teachers couldnt get you to do it that it be impossible for me to

 

[starcraftzzz]

Exactly what is the issue with starting with a tax system that works in the two states I mentioned?

Um because the effects of the tax structures in those states results in millions of people going into poverty and the poor/middle class paying far more taxes then the rich

Never claimed it was fix all, just a place to start
The fair tax addresses those concerns.

Again a sales tax would result in 50% of the population being in poverty and the poor paying 10 times more taxes then the rich.
So plz tell me why you think having poverty increase by 300% is a good place to start

Wealth lost at the level that creates jobs is killing our jobs market. the very reaon the housing market cannot reccover is the jobs market, no other

ROTFL the housing market had a bubble the reason it is not recovering is because houses were over priced and over built.

Housing cost would re bound when the demand comes back, until the job market is fixed that will not happen

I see so according to you we need to fix demand; yet you propose a tax policy that would destroy demand by causing taxes to skyrocket on consumers.

Have you ever played in the stock market? Your comment on Raising capital gains taxes does not make sense (thats what we with class say instead of "stupid")

What you're saying is stupid. According to you people will stop making money if they make 900,000 instead of 1million. Again the bullshit you say will happen is based on you being an idiot

Until you put your wealth at risk, do not try and understand what those who do go thru.

Yes I am sure millionaires go through so much suffering.... Dumbass

You punish those people, they will find another way to create that wealth. This is why the volume on the Stock Market is is far down

The volume on the stock market is down because a financial crises caused the worst recession since the 30's. Furthermore after capital gains taxes were decreased in the late 90's and 00's stocks took a plunge.
In theory rich people are already do what they know is the best way to make money; making it so that they pay the same taxes as everyone else isn't going to make them do something else with that money

The wealth that a millionaire makes after risk and taxes,

ROTFL so you think a millionaire is taking a risk.. yea who would of thought how risky it would be to lose a million dollars on an investment when you have 10million more in your bank account

part of that wealth will be used to buy a new GM product, a new pool, maybe hire another employee to find a way to hire another employee thru real growth that comes from welath made thru capital gains

Of which if that same money had gone to a poor person it would of created 7 times more jobs.
Who Creates Jobs? Taxes, Spending, and Class War | Working-Class Perspectives

We added 700 billion to the welath the US govt spends from 2007.
What has this done for us?

Lets see it provided millions of students with grant money to go to college to become doctors, lawyers and scientists. In provided thousands of children pre-school educations; it make thousands of homes and buildings more energy efficient, billions in health, agriculture, and science research; millions of Americans with life saving health care, more roads and trains for transportation, etc etc etc

To all the Libs who have issue with our tax system
We agree, its a mess
The way we go forward is what we need to focus on, not punishing people who have made enough to become millionaires

I would dare any-one to sit oppisite another who has not lifted one finger or put one dime at risk of there wealth, give that person 150,000.00 and at the end as you go to walk off, that same person says to you "wait, we need another 100,000.00

ROTFL the ironic thing is that the current tax policies you support do the exact thing you just described.

Thats what your asking.
Thats a 10% hike in capital gains taxes
We all need to pay our share, yes, but to punish another American just because there millionaires is counter productive

Like always you are incorrect more taxs on the rich who already pay less then the poor will/can be used to lift millions out of poverty and to increase the middle classes living standards

That would be strike three
lets just skip strike one and strike 2, my Mother has nothing to do with this conversation

Well get someone to read for you because you've shown time and time again that you cannot read

Just because we dis agree and I have called you out on the information you have posted as not being accurate gives you no right to attack me as a person

See this is the problem you think saying "thats not true" makes it not true. All you've done is deny reality simply because you are to pathetic to admit that your whole world view is based on you being ignorant and stupid. Furthermore you saying "thats not true" is not a rebuttal to statistics and facts its just you being unable to actually form a coherent intelligent thought.

In life you can sit behind a key board and be the person you are, sadly that will not change that person you are when your not behind it

Again plz try to make sense

There is more inside me that feels like there is more to say to a person who has your ideals on life and how you treat your fellow Americans

I see so you are saying I should not treat you how you are. The fact is that you are a dumbass not treating you like one would be dishonest

That guy is clueles as to how our system works

See this is why I call you a dumbass because you think knowing facts, data statistics and reality makes one clueless

I have no idea how socializing anything will save monies when we cannot run the federal govt on 3.4 trillion in 2011, having to print 1.5 trillion of that

Again this is why I call you stupid because you do not even know the difference between the phrase "saving money" and "the federal deficit".
As I proved socializing a half dozen industries would result in money saved because the government can do those same services for a fraction of the cost that the private market does it.

when we could for 2.7 in 2007
We had it so close in 07, then came along Peosi, Reid and BHO

We actually had a budget surplus until Bush and Republicans came along.
And again this is why I call you stupid; you are blaming Obama for a housing bubble and financial crises that started in 2002. The current deficit is a result of that housing bubble and financial crisis. The fact that you can't even put two and two together is a sad reflection on your limited intelligence

 

[JRK]

star
you still waiting on ANYONE who will talk to you?
In life you attack people only because you dis agree with them, this is were you end up
so just go away
I mean it, I wish you nothing but good luck
But just go away, no-one wants to talk to people who think the word retard is a word you just throw around.
Talking about people mothers will get you in places you do not want to be Star
Just go away