Boycott Israel

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore,, et al,

Yes, this is one of those flip-flops that 'the Arab Palestinians do; depending on what suits them.

• The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) made the recommendation options. The UN General Assembly selected A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947 as the Resolution to adopt.
※ As originally stated, the announcement from the Provisional Government was was issued:
§ Pursuant to Chapter I, UN Charter, Article 1(2) → principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.
§ After completing the minimum "Steps Preparatory to Independence" - Part 1, Section "B" - A/RES/181(II).

Resolution 181 was rejected and never implemented.

What else do you have?

(COMMENT)

When the UN Palestine Commission adjourned Sine Die, it made it perfectly clear, in a publically released forum (Press Release PAL/169), (17 MAY 1948) that: "The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

You can hardly get any more plain text and unambiguous as that.

BUT, the more interesting use of A/RES/181(II) comes from the Palestinian Declaration of Independence (1988):

Despite the historical injustice inflicted on the Palestinian Arab people resulting in their dispersion and depriving them of their right to self-determination, following upon UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947), which partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish, yet it is this Resolution that still provides those conditions of international legitimacy that ensure the right of the Palestinian Arab people to sovereignty.​

Now when I first say this, I had to read it a couple of times. Then, of course, there are the two more recent resolutions that dredge-up this historic document:

√ A/RES/43/177 (15 December 1988) wherein the UN Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988:

→ Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which,inter alia, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine.​

√ A/RES/67/19 (4 December 2012), wherein the UN Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations:

→ Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947,​

The next time you go to NYC, be sure to stop-by 405 E 42nd St and tell them that "Resolution 181 was rejected and never implemented." While the Arab Palestinians may have rejected it, they cannot use their rejection to stop the self-determination of the Israeli people.

F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS; A/RES/181 (II)

When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore,, et al,

Now you are just plan foolish.

• Invalid Question. The Question makes and incorrect presumption that the land was gifted from some entity, to some entity. --- OR --- The question presuppose that the land must be granted from some entity to some entity. Neither postulate is correct.

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Palestine was not a party to the Treaty. In fact, the word Palestine does not appear in the treaty.

There is NO OBLIGATION or PROMISE to the Arab Palestinian if they are not a party to the treaty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Indeependent]

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to the Jewish people for their National Homeland.

Link?

I thought you were the expert...at bullshit.

 

[Indeependent]

The principle purpose of the Jewish Agency was to advise and cooperate with the British Mandate Administration of Palestine...

The Jewish agency was a creature of the Mandate. When the Mandate left, they had no authority.

So, before the end of the Mandate they had no authority to create a state. After the end of the Mandate, they had no authority to be there.

And you seem to be the only person on earth who holds this opinion.

Where is the flaw in my assessment?

The flaw?
The Treaty is a big ass document that references other documents and you try to bullshit everyone that you've mastered it.
But then again, this very conversation is a retread of how I pointed out your bullshit a little over a month ago.

You are dancing around the question.

The fact that you don't know anything but the assay of the Treaty.
You're a fucking imbecile.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

Yes, of course.

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore,, et al,

This is an almost an invalid question.

Prior to the end of the Mandate, the Jewish Agency was one of a choir of Jewish representatives that coordinated with the United Nations Palestine Commission (which was a legal entity administered under United Nations Mandate) on the Jewish self-determination action to declare independence; to secure their blessing.

Where did it say that they were authorized to declare a Jewish state and who would give them the land for their state?

And where did it say that the Jewish Agency existed separate from the Mandate?

BTW, the Jewish Agency was an advisory body to the Mandate with no power of authority.

(COMMENT)

Q1: Where did it say that they were authorized to declare a Jewish state?

√ FUNCTIONS and POWERS - Chapter IV - UN Charter:

Article 10
The General Assembly may discuss any questions or any matters within the scope of the present Charter or relating to the powers and functions of any organs provided for in the present Charter, and, except as provided in Article 12, may make recommendations to the Members of the United Nations or to the Security Council or to both on any such questions or matters.

• The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) made the recommendation options. The UN General Assembly selected A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947 as the Resolution to adopt.
※ As originally stated, the announcement from the Provisional Government was was issued:

§ Pursuant to Chapter I, UN Charter, Article 1(2) → principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples.
§ After completing the minimum "Steps Preparatory to Independence" - Part 1, Section "B" - A/RES/181(II).
§ Pursuant to the Preamble and Article 2, Mandate for Palestine,

≜ Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,
≜ The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.​

Q2: Who would give them the land for their state?

• Invalid Question. The Question makes an incorrect presumption that the land was gifted from some entity, to some entity. --- OR --- The question presuppose that the land must be granted from some entity to some entity. Neither postulate is correct. This is a question of sovereignty and not ownership. I own the land on which my house sits; but it is sovereign federal territory.

• The Israeli People, immigrated to the Territory under the Mandate, have the right to self-determination, that they freely determine their political status; and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

• The Allied Powers in 1920 and the Allied Powers in 1947 that it was necessary to recognize the collective rights of the immigrant turned indigenous which are indispensable for their existence, well-being and integral development as peoples.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Please, explain this part:
"The Allied Powers in 1920 and the Allied Powers in 1947 that it was necessary to recognize the collective rights of the immigrant turned indigenous"

Who are the immigrant turned indigenous?

(COMMENT)

The reason that the Allied Powers made citizenship explicit was to allow the Jewish Immigrants under Article 4 to be able to vote (citizens of the realm). The ability

For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:–

(a) Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.

(b) All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​

Understanding the “indigenous” designation is tricky. (See UN Fact Sheet: Who are indigenous peoples?)

√ The two most applicable criteria (but not the only criteria):

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

• Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources​

Remember: The Allied Powers agreed in Paragraph 3 of the Preamble to the Mandate That:

• Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;
​

Coupled with citizenship, the status is fixed; a strong link was established.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine was not a party to the Treaty. In fact, the word Palestine does not appear in the treaty.

Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.

Why do you keep pimping this Israeli talking point?

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

 

[Hollie]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

You need to pay attention to your koranology lessons. The Islamist community has a 1,400 year history of loathing for the Jewish community.

Prior to re-establishment of the Jewish community in the area invaded and conquered by the Islamist colonist community, that jewish community was under the bootheel of dhimmitude imposed by the Islamist community.

Talk that over with the community attending your madrassah.

 

[Indeependent]

Palestine was not a party to the Treaty. In fact, the word Palestine does not appear in the treaty.

Neither was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Iraq.

Why do you keep pimping this Israeli talking point?

And that's why Syria is currently occupying Lebanon.
And I don't see you complaining.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

I don't know what this guy was smoking...but...here are some questions that you always duck.

There were proposed borders. What happened to them?

Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city. What happened to that?

There was supposed to be an economic union. What happened to that?

The militaries of the states were to ultimately be under the control of the UN. What happened to that?

All of the Palestinian citizen who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state. This would include all refugees. What happened to that?

I don't see any part of Resolution 181 that was ever implemented.

 

[Shusha]

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to the Jewish people for their National Homeland.

Link?

Its the same link I always give you. Gave it to you just last week. Instead of playing dumb -- why don't you address it? Oh wait, I know why. Because it gives rights to the Jewish people. Can't have that. The HORROR!

 

[Shusha]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

This may come as quite a shock to you. Are you sitting down? There are TWO distinct cultural groups living in the territory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

This may come as quite a shock to you. Are you sitting down? There are TWO distinct cultural groups living in the territory.

Correction. It is not "the territory" it is Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to the Jewish people for their National Homeland.

Link?

Its the same link I always give you. Gave it to you just last week. Instead of playing dumb -- why don't you address it? Oh wait, I know why. Because it gives rights to the Jewish people. Can't have that. The HORROR!

I've read the link. Quote the part you are thinking about. I didn't see it.

 

[Shusha]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

This may come as quite a shock to you. Are you sitting down? There are TWO distinct cultural groups living in the territory.

Correction. It is not "the territory" it is Palestine.

Nope. It is the sovereign territory of the State of Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their
member.

The Zionist settlers never identified themselves as part of the community. They kept themselves away from the community.

They were not accepted by the community as members of the community.

This may come as quite a shock to you. Are you sitting down? There are TWO distinct cultural groups living in the territory.

Correction. It is not "the territory" it is Palestine.

Nope. It is the sovereign territory of the State of Israel.

Link. Provide the quote so I don't do a wild goose chase looking for something that is not there.

 

[Shusha]

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to the Jewish people for their National Homeland.

Link?

Its the same link I always give you. Gave it to you just last week. Instead of playing dumb -- why don't you address it? Oh wait, I know why. Because it gives rights to the Jewish people. Can't have that. The HORROR!

I've read the link. Quote the part you are thinking about. I didn't see it.

Of course you didn't see it. You studiously ignore it. Deliberately so you don't have to give rights to the Jewish people.

One more time. Jewish. National. Homeland.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Wrong! The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to Palestine.

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the territory to the Jewish people for their National Homeland.

Link?

Its the same link I always give you. Gave it to you just last week. Instead of playing dumb -- why don't you address it? Oh wait, I know why. Because it gives rights to the Jewish people. Can't have that. The HORROR!

I've read the link. Quote the part you are thinking about. I didn't see it.

Of course you didn't see it. You studiously ignore it. Deliberately so you don't have to give rights to the Jewish people.

One more time. Jewish. National. Homeland.

One more time. Citizenship in Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

One more time. Citizenship in Palestine.

The use of the term "Palestine" in a legal document**, alone, most certainly does NOT constitute the creation of a State nor does it preclude, prevent or prohibit a Jewish State from being created.


** And the legal document you are using is not the Treaty of Lausanne, but likely the Citizenship Order of 1925. Of course you ignore all the documents which lay claim to a Jewish National Homeland as though anything with the word Jewish in it can't possibly be legal or even exist.

 

[P F Tinmore]

One more time. Citizenship in Palestine.

The use of the term "Palestine" in a legal document**, alone, most certainly does NOT constitute the creation of a State nor does not preclude, prevent or prohibit a Jewish State from being created.


** And the legal document you are using is not the Treaty of Lausanne, but likely the Citizenship Order of 1925. Of course you ignore all the documents which lay claim to a Jewish National Homeland as though anything with the word Jewish in it can't possibly be legal or even exist.

They say the same thing.

BTW, you are grasping at straws.

BTW revisited. I am a neutral observer to this conflict. I am not Jewish or Israeli. I am not Muslim or Palestinian. I am just a mid-western WASP who developed an interest about 15 years ago.