Ghost of a Rider
Gold Member
Yes, as planned. So?As planned.
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Yes, as planned. So?As planned.
Trump didn't send anyone anywhere. These people didn't work for him and he didn't force them.So how did those Elipse rally goers who wanted to "stop the steal" end up there?
Trump SENT them
"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.Trump didn't send anyone anywhere. These people didn't work for him and he didn't force them.
Capable of anything. But then they did something.Any group of supporters or activists are capable of anything. Trump and Trump supporters are not unique in that respect
He increased, exacerbated, and intensified ......and then directed that anger at the People's House and our elected Representatives.He didn't incite any emotions or feelings they weren't feeling already.
Ummm, no.In fact, no one was armed at the Capital building later.
Not false. Testimony at the J6 Hearings relayed that Trump had been told there were weapons in the crowd .....and he cavalierly and uncaringly said the people ain't there to hurt him.False.
Passion is one thing. Violence that follows immediately is another animal.The very point of political speech is to provoke passion about issues.
Moot.And what if no one had broken into the Capital that day?
Mere words and speeches can and have caused panic, injury, and death.I DO give a shit when people start assigning blame to mere words and speech
"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.
Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.
And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.
So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.
The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America.
Thank you all for being here. This is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you."
DJT Jan 6th closing remarks.
Pop quiz, where were they going?
He absolutely did “send” them to the Capitol.Look, you're just not getting where I'm coming from. I know Trump said these things and I know some in the crowd did as he asked. The point I'm trying to make here is that they did as he asked because it was what they wanted to do and so they chose to do it.
Trump did not "send" anyone to the Capital; he didn't have the power or authority to do so.
Capable of anything. But then they did something.
What was "unique" in this situation was that Trump as President of the United States of America called his cult to gather ("Be there. Will be wild")....he, and his crowd fluffers before him, incited and increased the anger temperature....and then, critically, that angered crowd violently attacked the People House and the men and women protecting it.
THAT was unique. Don Trump must not be allowed to fig-leaf himself by saying "How was I to know they were mad?
There is blame to be assigned for J6. About 1,100 so far have gotten some of the blame. Some more of the blame need fall on Don Trump.
He increased, exacerbated, and intensified ......and then directed that anger at the People's House and our elected Representatives.
----------------------------------------------------
Ummm, no.
That is not true.
A quick google will disabuse you of that canard.
Not false. Testimony at the J6 Hearings relayed that Trump had been told there were weapons in the crowd .....and he cavalierly and uncaringly said the people ain't there to hurt him.
Passion is one thing. Violence that follows immediately is another animal.
Moot.
Mere words and speeches can and have caused panic, injury, and death.
"Fire" shouted in a crowded theatre is merely a word.
Don Trump is morally responsible for the violence of J6. The upcoming trial for J6 will determine.....if he is criminally responsible in the eyes of the law.
In my layman's opinion, he is.
But my opinion has far less import than the jury's.
Let's go to trial. The sooner the better.
Trump had no power to compel anyone to go anywhere. It was their choice and it always was.He absolutely did “send” them to the Capitol.
He told them to go there and “stop the steal “ and said he was going with them
Nowhere in any of that rhetoric does Trump tell them to break into the Capital.
Don Trump, as POTUS, is different than other 'people'. He had a duty. A responsibility. As the leader.People direct anger at Congress every day.
A prankster or a malevolent player could scream "fire" ....when there was no fire.there is, in fact, a literal fire and that their lives are in danger.
And you still have not answered my question. Can you tell me why not every person at the rally broke into the Capital?
Not only did he send them to the Capitol building at the end of his speech with his words that day, but he also called all of them to come to the Capitol, DC, on that special day beginning in December.Look, you're just not getting where I'm coming from. I know Trump said these things and I know some in the crowd did as he asked. The point I'm trying to make here is that they did as he asked because it was what they wanted to do and so they chose to do it.
Trump did not "send" anyone to the Capital; he didn't have the power or authority to do so.
Hahahaha, well he didn't 'Order' them to go if that's what you mean or need to cast some blame on the Dirty Don. He certainly proved he had the power to compel them to come to DC that day.Trump had no power to compel anyone to go anywhere. It was their choice and it always was.
Not even ever you lying fuck
And when Vito Corleone said "Make him an offer he can't refuse."
He wasn't talking about cannoli.
But they knew what he meant.
Don Trump, in his leadership role as President of the United States of America had a greater duty, a greater responsibility, to be judicious and thoughtful in his rhetoric. Most especially after he had been active for weeks stoking anger over a lie about the elections. Most especially after hearing a dozen or so of his crowd fluffers use incendiary and instigating harangues of the assembled MAGA crowd.
He knew what he had there. He should have known.
He knew his people. His dozens and dozens of rallies had been instructive on how to incite, stoke, and provoke his fanboys. He'd seen it before. He could calibrate it. He should have calibrated it better.
He knew the power of his words. He knew the kind and mood of people who were out there.
Those folks came to DC angry. Trump made 'em that way over the previous weeks. So Trump and others made 'em angrier at the Ellipse.
He cocked the gun, and aimed it at the Capitol.
It went off.
For Don Trump to now claim.....'I didn't know they were that mad! I didn't know they'd go to the Capitol and do what they did. I didn't know.'.....is disingenuous. Is dishonest. He should have known. Real leaders are responsible.
Don Trump, as POTUS, is different than other 'people'. He had a duty. A responsibility. As the leader.
He failed to quiet the mob. He failed to forestall or mitigate the riot to come.
He should have. It was his duty.
That's on him.
He was derelict in his duty as President, as Commander in Chief, as the nation's top leader.
A prankster or a malevolent player could scream "fire" ....when there was no fire.
And tragedy occurs.
Words matter....even the word 'fire'
How it is spoken and in what context or what circumstances matter.
I am mildly convinced you know that.
Ummm? And I would know that how?
I'm an old farmer in Carharts......and was near 800 miles away on a tractor bucket pruning apple trees on January 6th, the day of the insurrection. When my bride called and told me to look at the newsfeeds on my phone.....I was gobsmacked. And will remember it like I remember the Kennedy assassination, like 9/11. Tragedies for America. How could I not?
And someone or someone(s) are responsible for those tragedies. Someone was blamed for those tragedies.
And must be for January 6th.
I believe Don Trump bears the lion's share of blame for J6.
I hope I am clear on that.
And they may have been inclined to go to the Capitol but Trump reinforced that and egged them on and even told them “the rules were different” and they should fight like hell.
Hahahaha, well he didn't 'Order' them to go if that's what you mean or need to cast some blame on the Dirty Don.
He certainly proved he had the power to compel them to come to DC that day.
When he finally told them to go home… they didIf he didn't order them then he didn't send them.
No he didn't. Neither Trump nor anyone else has the power to compel someone to do something they're not already inclined to do. Besides, inviting his supporters to D.C. is not a crime. If it wasn't wrong before the riot then it wasn't wrong after the riot.
The gathering, the march on the Capitol, and the riot was not a spontaneous event. Instead of trying calm the rioters, the Trumpyberra incited them even further during the event.If he didn't order them then he didn't send them.
No he didn't. Neither Trump nor anyone else has the power to compel someone to do something they're not already inclined to do. Besides, inviting his supporters to D.C. is not a crime. If it wasn't wrong before the riot then it wasn't wrong after the riot.
Don't be fatuous.Don't be stupid. A quote from a movie is not evidence that Trump directed them to break into the Capital.
- The fact remains that none of this is evidence or proof that Trump incited them to break into the Capita
- .You've been clear on that from the beginning. I just happen to disagree.
No, he didn't. No one does.When he finally told them to go home… they did
He had the power to get those maniacs to do whatever he wanted