Best defensive team in Super Bowl history?

[HUGGY]

So here's another way of looking at the Bears in SB XX

3 points came off turnovers. On their second play of the game, Walter Payton fumbled and the Pats recovered on the Chicago 19. They had 3 plays for 0 yards and kicked a FG.

Here are NE's drives in the first half

1st drive --> 3 plays, 0 yards, FG
2nd drive --> 3 plays, -10 yards, punt
3rd drive --> 2 plays, -7 yards, fumble
4th drive --> 1 play, -5 yards, fumble
5th drive --> 3 plays, -1 yard, punt
6th drive --> 3 plays, -13 yards, punt
7th drive --> 6 plays, 17 yards, punt

So, in the first half, NE had -19 yards in offense and 1 first down.

Here are NE's drives in the second half

8th drive --> 6 plays, 12 yards, punt
9th drive --> 3 plays, 3 yards, INT returned for a TD
10th drive --> 2 plays, 19 yards, fumble

USATODAY.com - Super Bowl XX play-by-play

By this time, it's 44-3 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd quarter. NE had 2 first downs, 15 yards in offense and 4 turnovers.

Seattle's defense was good but not that good.

Here is another way to look at it...

Bears held a so-so offense of season 85 to ten points.

Seahawks held the best offense in the history of the NFL to 8 points.

 

[HUGGY]

I have a problem debating some folks that probably can't remember what they had for breakfast about something that happened nearly thirty years ago vs something that should be fairly fresh in everybody's minds.

The Patriots were not even the best offense in the AFC in 85. They were barely above the middle of the pack. It was hardly a challenge for the much heralded Bears to hold them to 10 points.

The Seahawks had to face the BEST offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

I think some folks on this MB have been letting their fuzzy memories allow comparisons that simply are unsupportable with the realities of the two games in question.

 

[Billo_Really]

I have a problem debating some folks that probably can't remember what they had for breakfast about something that happened nearly thirty years ago vs something that should be fairly fresh in everybody's minds.

The Patriots were not even the best offense in the AFC in 85. They were barely above the middle of the pack. It was hardly a challenge for the much heralded Bears to hold them to 10 points.

The Seahawks had to face the BEST offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

I think some folks on this MB have been letting their fuzzy memories allow comparisons that simply are unsupportable with the realities of the two games in question.

That defense couldn't do what they did if they were playing the Ken Stablers' Oakland Raiders, Dan Marino's Dolphins or Sonny Jergenson's Redskins. For the simple fact that Stabler and Marino got rid of the ball too fast and Jergenson spent his whole career throwing off his back foot.

They'd also have problems against Steve Young's 49ners, Fran Tarkenton's Vikings or Roger Staubach's Cowboys. They were too mobile of quarterbacks.

They'd also have problems against Eric Dickerson's Rams, Walter Payton's Bears or Jim Browns Browns. If an offensive line can't stop a good pass rush, a great running back can.

 

[Billo_Really]

Well then go to the admin and request a change of thread title to "The Best Defense In The Playoffs".

Job done...easy peezy !!

They won a title, not a coronation.

 

[HUGGY]

I have a problem debating some folks that probably can't remember what they had for breakfast about something that happened nearly thirty years ago vs something that should be fairly fresh in everybody's minds.

The Patriots were not even the best offense in the AFC in 85. They were barely above the middle of the pack. It was hardly a challenge for the much heralded Bears to hold them to 10 points.

The Seahawks had to face the BEST offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

I think some folks on this MB have been letting their fuzzy memories allow comparisons that simply are unsupportable with the realities of the two games in question.

That defense couldn't do what they did if they were playing the Ken Stablers' Oakland Raiders, Dan Marino's Dolphins or Sonny Jergenson's Redskins. For the simple fact that Stabler and Marino got rid of the ball too fast and Jergenson spent his whole career throwing off his back foot.

They'd also have problems against Steve Young's 49ners, Fran Tarkenton's Vikings or Roger Staubach's Cowboys. They were too mobile of quarterbacks.

They'd also have problems against Eric Dickerson's Rams, Walter Payton's Bears or Jim Browns Browns. If an offensive line can't stop a good pass rush, a great running back can.

Meaningless drivel.

The Broncos put up the highest stats in history. None of the teams you listed were better on offense than the 2013 Broncos. That's a fact. Debating that fact is stupid. Your warm and fuzzy memories of teams from the past don't make their accomplishments factually any better than last years Broncos. Holding the greatest offense in history to 8 points is Seattle's accomplishment.

 

[Billo_Really]

Meaningless drivel.

Who the fuck are you? docmauser? That's his word!

The Broncos put up the highest stats in history.

For a season.

None of the teams you listed were better on offense than the 2013 Broncos.

For the season.

That's a fact. Debating that fact is stupid.

I'm not debating that fact.

Your warm and fuzzy memories of teams from the past don't make their accomplishments factually any better than last years Broncos.

If you're comparing seasons. But we're talking about one game and how the Seahawks would do defensively in that one game against certain teams.

What I'm doing, is breaking the Seahawks defensive down to certain factors that played a roll in the success they had against Denver, in that game. And one of those factors, was their pass rush and their ability to get to Manning. Another factor was the weather, which forced Manning out of his comfort zone. And another factor was how long Manning held the ball before he threw.

So it stands to reason, that quarterbacks who had quicker releases, would be a factor in reducing the success of that Seahawk defense. Ken Stabler and Johnny Unitas, were the best 2-minute quarterbacks in the history of the NFL. Marino had the quickest release of any quarterback in history. And against them, the Seahawks would barely get off the line before they saw the ball going the other way. Ergo, that pass rush wouldn't be as effective.

Holding the greatest offense in history to 8 points is Seattle's accomplishment.

You're forgetting that the field conditions were not conducive to the Broncos when they set those records. It's no secret Manning has a history of not performing well in the cold. So you can't claim you beat the best offense in history, because the conditions that best offensive set all their records in, were not present in the game.

You sound like all those Israeli kiss-asses who defend it at all costs because their so butt-hurt others won't respect something that means so much to them. The Seahawks are good. And comparing them to the '85 Bears is showing respect. But they only won one game! So it's a little too soon to be talking about them in terms of "best in history". They haven't earned that right yet.

One last thing, when I start stating examples from the "best in history", if you haven't seen those guys play, you're not even qualified to hang in a conversation on that level, because you don't know what you're talking about. But I did see them play. Game after game, season after season. So I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Toro]

So here's another way of looking at the Bears in SB XX

3 points came off turnovers. On their second play of the game, Walter Payton fumbled and the Pats recovered on the Chicago 19. They had 3 plays for 0 yards and kicked a FG.

Here are NE's drives in the first half

1st drive --> 3 plays, 0 yards, FG
2nd drive --> 3 plays, -10 yards, punt
3rd drive --> 2 plays, -7 yards, fumble
4th drive --> 1 play, -5 yards, fumble
5th drive --> 3 plays, -1 yard, punt
6th drive --> 3 plays, -13 yards, punt
7th drive --> 6 plays, 17 yards, punt

So, in the first half, NE had -19 yards in offense and 1 first down.

Here are NE's drives in the second half

8th drive --> 6 plays, 12 yards, punt
9th drive --> 3 plays, 3 yards, INT returned for a TD
10th drive --> 2 plays, 19 yards, fumble

USATODAY.com - Super Bowl XX play-by-play

By this time, it's 44-3 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd quarter. NE had 2 first downs, 15 yards in offense and 4 turnovers.

Seattle's defense was good but not that good.

Here is another way to look at it...

Bears held a so-so offense of season 85 to ten points.

Seahawks held the best offense in the history of the NFL to 8 points.

That's a fair point.

But the Patriots were still a SB team. They weren't playing the Hamilton Tiger-Cats or Cal-Berkley. They were playing the team representing the AFC in the SB.

To hold any SB team to 2 first downs and 15 yards after 3 quarters goes down as probably the greatest defensive performance in SB history.

 

[Edgetho]

I wasn't alive for the 85 bears... but...

The 2013 Seahawks nationally embarrassed the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL in front of the largest audience of viewers that has ever existed in any and every kind of sporting event...

So what did the 85 bears do again?

They allowed only 10 points for the entire playoffs.

They shut two teams out.


Here's a taste...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-_C0gwIFg0]1985 Chicago Bears 46 Defense - YouTube[/ame]

This poll is over before it even gets started.

Didn't the '85 Bears Defense score more points than the opposition's combined offenses in the playoffs? Something like that.

THE best game I've ever seen was the Dolphins vs. the '85 Bears.

The Dolphins won, and it wasn't because they wanted to make the playoffs. Ir was pride.

If you had asked me last year who the best QB of all time was, I would have said Dan Marino. Not even close. Joe Montana wouldn't even make my top five.

If you had asked me prior to Super Bowl 48, I would have said that Peyton Manning was closing in on the top spot.

Now it's back to Dan Marino. Not even close.

You gotta remember guys..... Back in Marino's day, the QB didn't just get hit, he got assaulted.... abused. Late hits weren't the exception, they were the rule.

Holding was actually called in those days, too. And you could mug a receiver all the way down the field until the ball was in the air.

A receiver running across the field in a crossing pattern had to watch out he didn't KILLED by a marauding Linebacker waiting for him. Now, you even pass gas within 5 yards of a receiver or, especially, the QB and it's 15 yards.

I'm telling you like it is.... Football was a better game in those games. Anybody that tries to tell you otherwise is a blithering idiot who ought to stick to watching his recorded tapes of Olympic Ribbon Dancing and Synchronized Swimming

The NFL is an American Game. An American Game for American Men.

And it was better in those days.

Today's athletes are better. Of that, there is no doubt. Bigger, stronger and meaner. The hitting today is off the charts because of it and I guess something needs to be done to prevent guys from getting permanently crippled and injured.

Here's a thought..... Don't run the fucking Crossing Pattern and my Linebacker won't take your fucking head off.

Anybody ever think about that?

Guess not...

Back when Football was real...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m0SzNtY9WI]Dolphins Bears 1985 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[hangover]

The Bears were a flash in the pan for one season. Big whoop. Ancient history. Patriots of won three SB's since then, Bears Zero.

 

[rightwinger]

The Bears were a flash in the pan for one season. Big whoop. Ancient history. Patriots of won three SB's since then, Bears Zero.

They only won in 85 but they had a great defense for about four years 84-87. Their biggest problem was that other NFC teams got better Giants, Redskins and Niners

 

[HUGGY]

So here's another way of looking at the Bears in SB XX

3 points came off turnovers. On their second play of the game, Walter Payton fumbled and the Pats recovered on the Chicago 19. They had 3 plays for 0 yards and kicked a FG.

Here are NE's drives in the first half

1st drive --> 3 plays, 0 yards, FG
2nd drive --> 3 plays, -10 yards, punt
3rd drive --> 2 plays, -7 yards, fumble
4th drive --> 1 play, -5 yards, fumble
5th drive --> 3 plays, -1 yard, punt
6th drive --> 3 plays, -13 yards, punt
7th drive --> 6 plays, 17 yards, punt

So, in the first half, NE had -19 yards in offense and 1 first down.

Here are NE's drives in the second half

8th drive --> 6 plays, 12 yards, punt
9th drive --> 3 plays, 3 yards, INT returned for a TD
10th drive --> 2 plays, 19 yards, fumble

USATODAY.com - Super Bowl XX play-by-play

By this time, it's 44-3 with 2 minutes to play in the 3rd quarter. NE had 2 first downs, 15 yards in offense and 4 turnovers.

Seattle's defense was good but not that good.

Here is another way to look at it...

Bears held a so-so offense of season 85 to ten points.

Seahawks held the best offense in the history of the NFL to 8 points.

That's a fair point.

But the Patriots were still a SB team. They weren't playing the Hamilton Tiger-Cats or Cal-Berkley. They were playing the team representing the AFC in the SB.

To hold any SB team to 2 first downs and 15 yards after 3 quarters goes down as probably the greatest defensive performance in SB history.

AND to hold the most prolific scoring machine to ZERO points until the last 5 seconds of the third qtr also rightfully should be in that conversation.

 

[Dutch]

The Steel Curtain was the nickname given to the famous defensive line of the American football team Pittsburgh Steelers during their 1970s dynasty years.

This defense was the backbone of the Steelers dynasty that won four Super Bowls (IX, X, XIII, and XIV). Over the years, the nickname evolved into a reference to the entire defensive squad.

In the 1976 season, the Steelers' defense was a juggernaut, arguably the greatest defense of all time. After the Steelers started 1-4 and lost their quarterback, Terry Bradshaw, the Steelers' defense took over.

In eight of the next nine games, the defense didn't allow a single touchdown, shutting out opponents five times including three consecutive games. During this nine game stretch the Steelers allowed a total of two touchdowns and five field goals. The defense also allowed an average 3.1 points per game and the team had a 22 points average margin of victory. Eight of the Steelers starting eleven defensive players were selected for the Pro Bowl, and four were eventually selected to the Hall of Fame.

"Mean" Joe Greene
L.C. “Hollywood Bags” Greenwood
Dwight “Mad Dog” White
Ernie “Fats” Holmes
Pittsburgh Steelers: The NFL's Steel Curtain | Bleacher Report

My favorite Bradshaw pic:

 

[antiquity]

Yep. Their defense was close to the Bears but not quite. I agree with you...the 1985 Bears were the best ever.

Steel Curtain was better....longer too. Two back to back SB's in six years. I'd like to see Seattle match that, but Goodell won't let it happen. Not good for the bottom line.

I dissagree. This years Superbowl drew the highest TV rating ever. It was the most watched show in history. It also drew in the most gambling money which cannot be denied has "some" influence. Betting was up about 11 percent..and set a record for total money exchanged. There was a huge chunk of "smart money" that was laid down last minute on a Seahawks win. The betting houses cleaned up.

Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman are two of the most recognised and liked players in the NFL. That fact is supported by jersey sales.

Seattle is the new "darling" NFL team. A repeat matchup in the 2015 SB between Seattle and Denver should set the bar even higher for viewership and betting.

As to the "best Superbowl defense ever". It is hard to say. Did Chicago go up against the "best offense" as Seattle did? It is impossible to prove one way or the other.

Considering the job at hand and the level of predicted competition holding the offense record breaking Broncos to 1 TD and a 2 pt conversion could be viewed as the best defensive acomplishment in any Superbowl ever.

I agree, its hard to take one team from the past and compare them to a team of today.

Today's teams are bigger faster and smarter than teams of past years. But with that said I think Dick Butkus was one of the greatest players to play in NFL history. No one on the Seattle roster can compare to him, but team wise Seattle is the best.

One thing I disagree with you is the match up in a possible Super Bowl next year...like this year the Super Bowl was played in Seattle against San Fran and the Denver game played in NJ was just frosting on the cake. Most likely the SB will be played in Seattle again this year against the same two teams. In less Denver improves their defense, teams in the AFL have learn their weakness from this years SB will have a field day playing them. Cincinnati and possible the Colts could contend. I look for New England to fade and not contend next season.

 

[antiquity]

For the record, the Rams had the greatest defensive line in the history of the NFL.

The Fearsome Foursome:

Merlin Olsen
Deacon Jones
Lamar Lundy
Rosie Greer​

I watched all those players in both College and pro ball as the Rams were my team when they played. Too bad they never win any big games. In fact I don't remember the LA Rams even playing .500 ball.

 

[HUGGY]

For the record, the Rams had the greatest defensive line in the history of the NFL.

The Fearsome Foursome:

Merlin Olsen
Deacon Jones
Lamar Lundy
Rosie Greer​

The last incarnation of "The Fearsome Foursome" of the Los Angeles Rams variety lasted nearly 13 seasons in various configuragtions. Unfortunately for that group most of their history was under the coaching of Chuck Knox. Many do not know that Knox was considered an O-Line guru and built up protection schemes for several midlin to average QBs ending with an aging and decrepite Joe Namouth. He racked up several great reg season records but was along with the Fearsome foursome a failure in the playoffs. As far as I know ...no Knox coached team ever made it to the championship game.

As a coach for the Seattle Seahawks Knox was unimaginative. I thought he was just plain stupid. Clearly that was not possible because no one could make it to coaching an NFL team if they had a low IQ..

ORRRrrr....could they?

 

[BobPlumb]

It is hard to compare defenses from different eras

The 85 Bears were built to stop the run and control the line of scrimmage.
The 14 Hawks were built to defend the pass

If the 85 bears had to abide by today's hitting rules..............

 

[Billo_Really]

The last incarnation of "The Fearsome Foursome" of the Los Angeles Rams variety lasted nearly 13 seasons in various configuragtions. Unfortunately for that group most of their history was under the coaching of Chuck Knox. Many do not know that Knox was considered an O-Line guru and built up protection schemes for several midlin to average QBs ending with an aging and decrepite Joe Namouth. He racked up several great reg season records but was along with the Fearsome foursome a failure in the playoffs. As far as I know ...no Knox coached team ever made it to the championship game.

As a coach for the Seattle Seahawks Knox was unimaginative. I thought he was just plain stupid. Clearly that was not possible because no one could make it to coaching an NFL team if they had a low IQ..

ORRRrrr....could they?

I can name the reason the Rams didn't make it to the championship game in two words......................JOE KAPP!

 

[Billo_Really]

I watched all those players in both College and pro ball as the Rams were my team when they played. Too bad they never win any big games. In fact I don't remember the LA Rams even playing .500 ball.

They went 11-0 in '69 before losing their final 3 games (2 to the Vikings, 1 to the Lions).

 

[HUGGY]

The rules dictate what shapes the makeup of "the best defense or offense" in history.

The teams from the 50's, 60's, 70's and onward through the decades can't be compared realistically to the more recent teams.

The rules have evolved and so have the players. Some of the greats such as Buttkiss and Larry Taylor and others couldn't even play today because what they did well can't be done at all in this era.

One thing for certain is that today's athletes are faster, bigger and smarter than those from the past. This is true in all sports.

There will NEVER be another great linebacker that is allowed to get to a QB and smash him in the face with his elbow and intimidate with violence like the greats that have been formentioned on this and other threads.

Someone like Butkus if placed on the Seahawk roster in the SB would have been thrown out of the game by the officials and been a deterant to the Hawks before his ejection from the game. He wasn't fast enough to cover the recievers of the Broncos. He wouldn't have done a measurably better job stopping the Bronco run game. The Hawks kept the Bronco run game to around ten yards in the first half and after that the coaches on both sides of the ball changed thier styles.. Seattle went into more of a prevent and Denver more into the short pass with the exception of their only TD drive.

There would have been no place for a Butcus in the second half for Seattle..he would have been sitting on the bench. At 6' 3" and 243 lbs he is too small to be the morphing roving DE that the Hawks use to crash to the QB and too slow to keep up with the elite recievers a player like Kam Chancellor is forced to run with.

That hit Chancellor laid on D Thomas that set the tone for the SB game Butkus could have never made because for one he wouldn't have been in position to make that play.

I'm not saying that Butkus couldn't have been very disruptive to Manning but it is doubtful to me that he would have been MORE disruptive than Seattle was. The Hawks pretty much had Manning off his comfort zone. With Peytons quick release Dicky Boy wouldn't had enough time to get to the QB and even if he did manage to get to Manning he would have been penalized every time for roughing.

 

[deaddogseye]

A couple of other teams belong in the discussion especially if you are including SB losing teams like Denver:
-either Packer SB team even though their best Ds were pre SB
-69 Vikings; one of the most dominant defenses I've ever seen. When you realize how weak the offense was, you appreciate the domination of this D even more.
- 69 Chiefs; just look at the personnel on this team
- Colts; another absolutely dominant defense. I grew up a Jets/ Namath fan but I'm glad they didnt have to play 2 out of 3. If they played 20 Balt might have won 19

But the Bears were a truly great D as were the Ravens, the Steelers, the Giants