Before there was a "greatest generation"

[oldfart]

As this is the memorial day weekend, I thought I would solicit some thoughts about a subject that has been bothering me. We have been through a period of glorification of those who served in WWII. I have never heard reasoning for why that generation should be elevated above those who fought in WWI, or the Civil War, or Korea, or Vietnam, or the more recent conflicts. If anyone has some thoughts on this, it would like to hear.

Finally, if we single out WWII soldiers, marines, seamen, and airmen, I would give pride of place to those who fought at Pearl Harbor, Bataan, Corregidor, Wake Island. and the dark days in the Pacific and Atlantic in 1942, when the US Navy lost six of its eight carriers, the Japanese advance seemed unstoppable, when the US Navy decided to abandon the convoy system in the Atlantic and we tried to "protect" our merchant ships from submarines by mounting machine guns on them. There was a time when it looked very much as if we were going to lose that war, and the time to build the ships and planes and train the forces that would land on D-Day and take back the Pacific was bought with the lives of the defenders who died or became prisoners in now forgotten parts of the world.

 

[Granny]

Very good post. We've probably put more emphasis on the Greatest Generation due to the book title of the same name and on-air broadcast of the journalist who wrote the book - Peter Jennings? It's a phrase still pretty much fresh in our minds.

I think we owe a lot of gratitude to all our service personnel regardless of which war they fought. Each gave a huge effort in bringing or keeping freedom for this country as well as for many other now thankless countries which have long forgotten what America did to free them when their countries were in great peril.

My great-grandparents came here from German held Poland ruled by the Kaiser and from Russian held Polish land ruled by the Czar. Those in the succeeding generations fought for this country and the freedom they came here to have. My paternal grandmother lost two sons in WWII, exactly one month apart, and both are buried in American Cemeteries in France.

Today there’s a part of me that wonders why … when a part of our population is absolutely dead-set on corrupting and destroying the freedoms we have gained at such sacrifice … by returning this country to the types of tyranny they came here to get away from.

In Flanders Field

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

By John McCrae, Canadian poet

 

[regent]

lt was the combo that gave that generation the title. First, they had the greatest and longest depression this nation has ever had, then the greatest war. Both depression and war affected most of the people not just a few. That generation could have created a new economic system or new type of government as some of the other nations did but instead they kept the same government and same economic system with a few changes. Some of those changes survived and are now part of our current economic system. Perhaps that is why historians have come to rate FDR as America's greatest president.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

lt was the combo that gave that generation the title. First, they had the greatest and longest depression this nation has ever had, then the greatest war. Both depression and war affected most of the people not just a few. That generation could have created a new economic system or new type of government as some of the other nations did but instead they kept the same government and same economic system with a few changes. Some of those changes survived and are now part of our current economic system. Perhaps that is why historians have come to rate FDR as America's greatest president.

This.

Except maybe the FDR part. A great president, he probably was not the equal of Washington, Jefferson or Lincoln. He and his cousin are probably the next two after those three.

My parents saw some of the worst of the depression and the war. Neither is unique. It was, as you suggest, the scale of events from 1929 through 1945. At 90 and 87 they are on the home stretch after lives few today can actually grasp.

 

[Granny]

I can't say I would classify FDR as a great president. His social programs, while maybe well intended, are part of the economic problems we have today. His programs have mushroomed into social and economic problems that are rife with corruption, misuse, and spinoff issues that most likely were not anticipated at the time they were instituted.

He was only one of our presidents who had the socialization of America as a goal.

 

[Connery]

The Greatest Generation speaks to a variety of events that occurred during a particular period in US history and was a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw. The expression Greatest Generation does not speak to the character of those who are members of that time period in as much as the the events they had to face. Each generation has had to face and overcome their own challenges all are equally "great".

To me the term is a contrivance and carries the same weight as other catchy names such as "America's team", The "Lost Generation" etc.

 

[Granny]

The Greatest Generation speaks to a variety of events that occurred during a particular period in US history and was a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw. The expression Greatest Generation does not speak to the character of those who are members of that time period in as much as the the events they had to face. Each generation has had to face and overcome their own challenges all are equally "great".

To me the term is a contrivance and carries the same weight as other catchy names such as "America's team", The "Lost Generation" etc.

Those who lived during the period did see many changes - a life-span of 85-90+ years had to be absolutely amazing to those who witnessed so much. I put more emphasis on the military aspect since the OP brought up Memorial Day in his post.

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

The Greatest Generation? Yes. There has been none greater or even equal to since then as far as I can determine.

 

[editec]

Minor correction.

The convoy system was not abandoned, it did not exist in the first few years especially before the USA officially went war.

That's why the Atlantic Fleet Merchant Marines have the second highest rate of deaths (after the 8th Army Air Corps) of the second world war.

 

[longknife]

lt was the combo that gave that generation the title. First, they had the greatest and longest depression this nation has ever had, then the greatest war. Both depression and war affected most of the people not just a few. That generation could have created a new economic system or new type of government as some of the other nations did but instead they kept the same government and same economic system with a few changes. Some of those changes survived and are now part of our current economic system. Perhaps that is why historians have come to rate FDR as America's greatest president.

I liked everything about your post until you came to that.

Along with Woodrow Wilson, FDR was about as socialist/progressive as any president we've had - until Obama.

Yes, many of his programs brought us out of the depression - but much longer than if it had been done through private investments. His Lend Lease program increased factory production - but at the ultimate cost to the individual taxpayers. He wanted us involved in Europe years before Pearl Harbor but couldn't due to Congress.

Ah, well, it's a useless argument as the left will never remove him from his pedestal.

 

[longknife]

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

The Greatest Generation? Yes. There has been none greater or even equal to since then as far as I can determine.

I certainly agree with that. Our current education system is doing everything possible to destroy individualism, good manners, compassion, ethics and morality. It is sad to say, but every day, we churn out youth who will be able to be ever called anything more than the Mediocre Generation.

 

[Connery]

The Greatest Generation speaks to a variety of events that occurred during a particular period in US history and was a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw. The expression Greatest Generation does not speak to the character of those who are members of that time period in as much as the the events they had to face. Each generation has had to face and overcome their own challenges all are equally "great".

To me the term is a contrivance and carries the same weight as other catchy names such as "America's team", The "Lost Generation" etc.

Those who lived during the period did see many changes - a life-span of 85-90+ years had to be absolutely amazing to those who witnessed so much. I put more emphasis on the military aspect since the OP brought up Memorial Day in his post.

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

The Greatest Generation? Yes. There has been none greater or even equal to since then as far as I can determine.

There were many generations prior to this one which were a "great" showed character and perhaps faced greater challenges. For example, those who fought to give birth to this nation or those who settled the west.

Moreover, those generations which came after the "Greatest Generation" were raised or influenced by the "Greatest Generation" who you claim to be "rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous". The adage that comes to mind is "the sins of the parents are visited upon their children". "Greatest" can be measured by legacy as well.

 

[regent]

lt was the combo that gave that generation the title. First, they had the greatest and longest depression this nation has ever had, then the greatest war. Both depression and war affected most of the people not just a few. That generation could have created a new economic system or new type of government as some of the other nations did but instead they kept the same government and same economic system with a few changes. Some of those changes survived and are now part of our current economic system. Perhaps that is why historians have come to rate FDR as America's greatest president.

I liked everything about your post until you came to that.

Along with Woodrow Wilson, FDR was about as socialist/progressive as any president we've had - until Obama.

Yes, many of his programs brought us out of the depression - but much longer than if it had been done through private investments. His Lend Lease program increased factory production - but at the ultimate cost to the individual taxpayers. He wanted us involved in Europe years before Pearl Harbor but couldn't due to Congress.

Ah, well, it's a useless argument as the left will never remove him from his pedestal.

America had almost four years of Hoover's Republican depression leadership, they offered no hope, they burned out the bonus army, they helped business, hoping with government money factories would reopen (trickle down), bread lines, fathers leaving home, charities overwhelmed, it was not a happy period. Then along came FDR with no plan, (there is no plan even today) but to experiment, find a way and survive. Not everything worked, but they kept trying, and people felt the government was trying, then along comes Hitler and company. Today, we can look back and see mistakes, see things they might have done, but even with all that behind us, what have we learned? What plan do we have today to prevent or cure another great depression? When things get sticky we go back to New Deal tactics.
As for the pedestal, it was the people and historians that put FDR on the pedestal and Republicans that passed the amendment to keep him there.

 

[oldfart]

Those who lived during the period did see many changes - a life-span of 85-90+ years had to be absolutely amazing to those who witnessed so much.

One of the problems I have with characterizations of time periods and "generations" is the degree to which they cohabit the same time and space. So. for example the age cohorts born in the early 20's were teenagers during the Depression and in the armed forces during WWII. They are the same generation who flooded the colleges in the early 50's and bought homes in the new suburbs. They were the first wave who retired with major Social Security and Medicare benefits in the 70's.

While the greatest generation was retiring, the workforce was flooded with the boomers born in the late 40's and 50's. This was golden and troubled generation that grew up with vastly expanded public education, an expectation of rising living standards, and limitless faith in the future. What they also got was the Bomb and Vietnam. And so it goes.

In my lifetime I have known individuals who grew up before the twentieth century, before automobiles, airplanes, and radios. I'm surrounded by young people who cannot envision a life without cell phones or an Internet. Life seems so much richer than the generalizations!

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

I am personally convinced that human nature has changed very slowly over time. We tend to blot out the more unsavory details of our past. Social skills are definitely a bit rougher, but some of the really ugly behavior is less acceptable and is diminishing. Public lynchings are no longer deemed the kind of entertainment you take a basket lunch to, for example. I'm disturbed by the disappearance of business ethics, but I don't think general ethical standards are in any decline.

 

[Granny]

The Greatest Generation speaks to a variety of events that occurred during a particular period in US history and was a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw. The expression Greatest Generation does not speak to the character of those who are members of that time period in as much as the the events they had to face. Each generation has had to face and overcome their own challenges all are equally "great".

To me the term is a contrivance and carries the same weight as other catchy names such as "America's team", The "Lost Generation" etc.

Those who lived during the period did see many changes - a life-span of 85-90+ years had to be absolutely amazing to those who witnessed so much. I put more emphasis on the military aspect since the OP brought up Memorial Day in his post.

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

The Greatest Generation? Yes. There has been none greater or even equal to since then as far as I can determine.

There were many generations prior to this one which were a "great" showed character and perhaps faced greater challenges. For example, those who fought to give birth to this nation or those who settled the west.

Moreover, those generations which came after the "Greatest Generation" were raised or influenced by the "Greatest Generation" who you claim to be "rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous". The adage that comes to mind is "the sins of the parents are visited upon their children". "Greatest" can be measured by legacy as well.

You are right - I just tend to the of the so-labled "Greatest Generation" as the end of the line of "greats." I'm a so-called War Baby and I think my upbringing did a lot to, shall we say, isolate me from things outside my house - not shield me, but isolate me. As far as my remarks about rudeness, etc., I'm particularly targeting some of those in the post-Vietnam years.

 

[Granny]

Those who lived during the period did see many changes - a life-span of 85-90+ years had to be absolutely amazing to those who witnessed so much.

One of the problems I have with characterizations of time periods and "generations" is the degree to which they cohabit the same time and space. So. for example the age cohorts born in the early 20's were teenagers during the Depression and in the armed forces during WWII. They are the same generation who flooded the colleges in the early 50's and bought homes in the new suburbs. They were the first wave who retired with major Social Security and Medicare benefits in the 70's.

While the greatest generation was retiring, the workforce was flooded with the boomers born in the late 40's and 50's. This was golden and troubled generation that grew up with vastly expanded public education, an expectation of rising living standards, and limitless faith in the future. What they also got was the Bomb and Vietnam. And so it goes.

In my lifetime I have known individuals who grew up before the twentieth century, before automobiles, airplanes, and radios. I'm surrounded by young people who cannot envision a life without cell phones or an Internet. Life seems so much richer than the generalizations!

In any event, the nation as a whole had people with more character, more good manners, more compassion, more ethics and morality, and an education system that put more emphasis on the basics of subjects that would actually be useful to people than on embracing and practicing all kinds of rude, ugly, deviant and promiscuous, and dangerous behaviors that will be detrimental to everybody.

I am personally convinced that human nature has changed very slowly over time. We tend to blot out the more unsavory details of our past. Social skills are definitely a bit rougher, but some of the really ugly behavior is less acceptable and is diminishing. Public lynchings are no longer deemed the kind of entertainment you take a basket lunch to, for example. I'm disturbed by the disappearance of business ethics, but I don't think general ethical standards are in any decline.

I don't deny that some of the behaviors of today were existent in previous periods, it just seems it was somewhat quietly practiced unlike today when it's flat out in-your-face and FU if you don't like it. People just didn't generally flaunt their behavior in public so much as it is today. It seems that anyone who tries to present any kind of modesty or decorum these days is publicly rebuked for failure to "join the fun."

 

[Wry Catcher]

As this is the memorial day weekend, I thought I would solicit some thoughts about a subject that has been bothering me. We have been through a period of glorification of those who served in WWII. I have never heard reasoning for why that generation should be elevated above those who fought in WWI, or the Civil War, or Korea, or Vietnam, or the more recent conflicts. If anyone has some thoughts on this, it would like to hear.

Finally, if we single out WWII soldiers, marines, seamen, and airmen, I would give pride of place to those who fought at Pearl Harbor, Bataan, Corregidor, Wake Island. and the dark days in the Pacific and Atlantic in 1942, when the US Navy lost six of its eight carriers, the Japanese advance seemed unstoppable, when the US Navy decided to abandon the convoy system in the Atlantic and we tried to "protect" our merchant ships from submarines by mounting machine guns on them. There was a time when it looked very much as if we were going to lose that war, and the time to build the ships and planes and train the forces that would land on D-Day and take back the Pacific was bought with the lives of the defenders who died or became prisoners in now forgotten parts of the world.

I attended boot camp at NTC San Diego and was briefly stationed on 32nd St. in that City. One day I went to Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery and walked among the graves. In one section I noted the graves of dozens of 18, 19 and 20 year old Marines who died on the same day. I don't recall the Island upon which they died (it was in '44 or ''45), but as I walked along I remembered all those films of our forces landing on remote beaches in the South Pacific.

I also spent some time on USS Bexar (APA-237) in 1967 and read some of the comments (Graffiti) left on the canvas racks by soldiers/Marines on their way to landings at Inchon during the Korean War. They were sobering; I was awaiting orders and the war in Vietnam was heating up.

Years later I took my oldest son to Wash. D.C. when he was fifteen. We walked along the Vietnam War Memorial and I was surprised by my reaction (real men don't tear up in front of their kids). I read the names of guys I went to school with, played ball against in high school and served with in the Navy.

They weren't all heros, but they gave their lives in service to our country. Too bad we can't send Senators and Congressmen into harms way.

 

[lynn63]

Lack of Integrity is the cancer that is destroying societies ability to prosper today. We don't hold people accountable for what comes out of their mouths, therefore trust becomes obsolete.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Lack of Integrity is the cancer that is destroying societies ability to prosper today. We don't hold people accountable for what comes out of their mouths, therefore trust becomes obsolete.

Well that maybe your opinion (though it sound like something Hannity or Limbaugh told you). Can you explain what you mean by this post?

 

[numan]

'
I find all this "greatest generation" crap to be blithering brainwashing.

The Americans who fought were betrayed by their government and leaders, exploited beyond endurance, killed and maimed to serve economic interests, not to benefit the soldiers and their families, and then tossed aside with lifelong psychological damage or physical wounds.

They were schmucks, who should have known better if they had been better educated and less brainwashed.

From the point of view of character and morals, America has simply become ever more degraded and coarsened since WWII. On the large scale, the last decent Americans were from the 1930's.

People who don't recognize that Vietnam and Iraq were evil, are just sick and twisted, in my opinion.
.

 

[Granny]

As this is the memorial day weekend, I thought I would solicit some thoughts about a subject that has been bothering me. We have been through a period of glorification of those who served in WWII. I have never heard reasoning for why that generation should be elevated above those who fought in WWI, or the Civil War, or Korea, or Vietnam, or the more recent conflicts. If anyone has some thoughts on this, it would like to hear.

Finally, if we single out WWII soldiers, marines, seamen, and airmen, I would give pride of place to those who fought at Pearl Harbor, Bataan, Corregidor, Wake Island. and the dark days in the Pacific and Atlantic in 1942, when the US Navy lost six of its eight carriers, the Japanese advance seemed unstoppable, when the US Navy decided to abandon the convoy system in the Atlantic and we tried to "protect" our merchant ships from submarines by mounting machine guns on them. There was a time when it looked very much as if we were going to lose that war, and the time to build the ships and planes and train the forces that would land on D-Day and take back the Pacific was bought with the lives of the defenders who died or became prisoners in now forgotten parts of the world.

I attended boot camp at NTC San Diego and was briefly stationed on 32nd St. in that City. One day I went to Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery and walked among the graves. In one section I noted the graves of dozens of 18, 19 and 20 year old Marines who died on the same day. I don't recall the Island upon which they died (it was in '44 or ''45), but as I walked along I remembered all those films of our forces landing on remote beaches in the South Pacific.

I also spent some time on USS Bexar (APA-237) in 1967 and read some of the comments (Graffiti) left on the canvas racks by soldiers/Marines on their way to landings at Inchon during the Korean War. They were sobering; I was awaiting orders and the war in Vietnam was heating up.

Years later I took my oldest son to Wash. D.C. when he was fifteen. We walked along the Vietnam War Memorial and I was surprised by my reaction (real men don't tear up in front of their kids). I read the names of guys I went to school with, played ball against in high school and served with in the Navy.

They weren't all heros, but they gave their lives in service to our country. Too bad we can't send Senators and Congressmen into harms way.

Very sobering ... makes it all too real when the names you read are people who were alive and real to you at one time. But I would have to say they were all heroes ... they were willing to serve, they paid the highest price, medals or no medals.