Beer, Cigarettes & Marijuana -- What's the difference?

[The Rabbi]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

Get your facts straight and then maybe we can talk. No one died from a marijuana related incident? Really? Link please.

Can you link us to any site that documents death by marijuana?

His assertion was based on a lack of evidence to the contrary.

But if you have evidence that refutes his, I'd like to see it, please.

DUI Library: Fatalities Accidents - Study on DUI and Accidents | DUI.com

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Gee, no one died from a fire, slip and fall, bicycle, bear or any number of other things not included on your list. Wonder how many people were high when they died in the car accident, were hunting with a firearm or used another drug in conjunction with marijuana?

I wonder how many people were listening to 'Freebird' when they died in a car accident ... be careful with the Skynyrd, they're dangerous!

....Or, Bloodrock!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KExNxttleaI]YouTube - Bloodrock - Bloodrock 2 - 07 - D.O.A.[/ame]

​

 

[Wry Catcher]

In my never ending effort to alleviate ignorance, I provide the following information:

The Federal Controlled Substance Schedule





Schedule I

The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse and has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.



• Examples of Schedule I substances include heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana, and methaqualone.



Schedule II

The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse and has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions. Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.



• Examples of Schedule II substances include morphine, phencyclidine (PCP), cocaine, methadone, and methamphetamine.



Schedule III

The drug or other substance has less potential for abuse than the drugs or other substances in schedules I and II and has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to moderate or low physical dependence or high psychological dependence.



• Anabolic steroids, codeine and hydrocodone with aspirin or Tylenol ®, and some barbiturates are examples of Schedule III substances.



Schedule IV

The drug or other substance has a low potential for abuse relative to the drugs or other substances in Schedule III and has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. Abuse of the drug or other substance may lead to limited physical dependence or psychological dependence relative to the drugs or other substances in Schedule III.



• Examples of drugs included in schedule IV are Darvon®, Talwin®, Equanil®, Valium®, and Xanax®.



Schedule V

The drug or other substance has a low potential for abuse relative to the drugs or other substances in Schedule IV and has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. Abuse of the drug or other substances may lead to limited physical dependence or psychological dependence relative to the drugs or other substances in Schedule IV.



• Cough medicines with codeine are examples of Schedule V drugs.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That would be why I put the qualifier there. Of course it's not the same. I never claimed that it was. But medically, yes nicotine is a mood-altering drug.


2 shots? You're a lightweight.

Only drink at weddings & funerals. And then, only when toasting.

What do you do?

Die o' boredom......

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[geauxtohell]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

What do cigarettes have to do with this? Are you claiming they are also a perception altering substance??

Of course they are. You don't see many people clamoring for Nicotine-less smokes, do you?

Here's how I see the difference:

Alcohol is addictive to the point that addicts are in danger of dying during withdrawal. It impairs the senses and judgment and kills brains cells. It also destroys the liver. You can overdose on alcohol.

Cigarettes are highly addictive and highly carcinogenic to virtually every tissue in the body. Even if you avoid cancer, they destroy lung tissue and your odds of getting COPD are high, which is a progressively fatal condition that will have you in the hospital several times a year for COPD exacerbation until it contributes to your death in some manner or the other.

Pot is not physiologically addictive, impairs the senses and alters judgment. You can't overdose on it, but the long term effects on the body are not well studied/known. There is some evidence to suggest it might trigger schizophrenia in persons who are habitual users who are predispositioned to it.

If alcohol and cigs are going to be legal, I don't see why Pot is illegal. I think California will legalize it for recreational use and pending on how that turns out other states will follow suit a year or two later.

 

[geauxtohell]

The fact that you'd place BEER in the same category as cigarettes & marijuana explains why you are a "young lefty"...... or IOW, a fool.

You are right. The societal harms caused by alcohol dwarf MJ and cigs. Also, as I noted, withdrawal from alcohol kills people. That is not the case with the other two.

 

[geauxtohell]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

What do cigarettes have to do with this? Are you claiming they are also a perception altering substance??

They are.

Subtly, yes. But they do - if they didn't, why would someone get addicted to cigarettes?

There is a reason the sympathetic receptor class in the PNS are referred to as "nicotinic receptors".

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It seems to me that lots of people want to justify their addiction to marijuana......

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sorry. I forgot to turn-off my Bimbo-firewall.)

Addiction??!!!!

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[editec]

Pot is essantially harmless except for the negative effects on the lungs.

It is not addictive, but it can be habit forming.

Unlike alcohol and nicotine marijuana has no known toxicity level.

 

[geauxtohell]

Nice qualifier. Must explain why i get falling down drunk on 2 shots,

Because you are a lightweight.

but can smoke 3 cartons and still drive half a country away.

Because the active component in alcohol and cigs bind different neuro-receptors to cause different effects. The point is, they still bind receptors and alter the body from the norm.

 

[geauxtohell]

/sigh...


Even as a Monthly/Social Weed smoker it's ridiculous to say there are 0 deaths caused by Weed..

I know 1 person who has actually gotten severely injured under the use of Pot.. Not to mention the people i know telling me stories about people who have died under the use.

Thanks for playing the Ignorant game, come back next week for more.

If you want to go into ROTC, you need to stop smoking pot. You are going to be asked about your drug use for the past six years on your security clearance papers.

 

[amrchaos]

To younglefty

The reason Marijuana is illegal is because it is too enjoyable!

If you take too much pleasure from it, it must be illegal.

This includes sex(only time it is not sinful is if you are trying to produce a child. Not because you and your partner are horny that is called lust and should be avoided at all costs!), gambling, and other types of pleasures that makes living worthwhile.

Get with the program, younglefty! Beome a youngconservative and shun your sinful ways! Oh--I meant illegal ways!

 

[geauxtohell]

Then, of course--you have a link to anyone--over the decades that has ended up in one of our emergency rooms because of an overdose of marijuana--or one that has died of some kind of lung disease--over long term use of it.

Then maybe--you'll show some credibility.

The facts are: That our forefathers were fined if they did not grow marijuana plants--whose bi-products were used for rope and tents. George Washinton's main crop was the marijuana plant--and our declaration of independence is written on hemp paper.

Yawn.
This took all of 15 seconds. The internet is great.
Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction -- As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers

That study was conducted with a sample of 10 patients. This is not a misprint.

Bullous lung disease due to marijuana

HII SW, TAM JDC, THOMPSON BR, NAUGHTON MT. Respirology 2008; 13: 122-127 Background and objective: 

In contrast to the well-described effects of tobacco smoking upon pulmonary emphysema, with ∼15% of smokers being affected at the age of 65 years, the effects of marijuana smoking are rarely reported and poorly understood. Methods: 

We report a series of 10 patients (mean age 41 ± 9 years, eight male, two female), who presented over a period of 12 months to our respiratory unit with new respiratory symptoms, and who admitted to regular chronic marijuana smoking (>1 year continuously). Symptoms on presentation were dyspnoea (n = 4), pneumothorax (n = 4) and chest infection (n = 2). Results: 

Good catch. I was hoping someone would provide the methodology. I was too lazy to hunt it down myself. When n=10, the power of the study is so absurdly low that it's hard to take it seriously. I wonder what their P value and confidence intervals were?

Also, 4 of them had a pneumothorax but only 2 had a chest infection?

My take is that MJ has simply not been well studied enough to make definitive statements, but I don't think anyone can deny their is a link to cancer.

 

[saveliberty]

The federal government wants to regulate your sugar and salt intake. Marijuana is certainly a reasonable substance to regulate by that standard. Your weak arguments about marijuana not killing you it was the fall or the car crash is laughable. Sort of like saying the heart attack killed you, not the excess weigh, smoking, lack of exercise and so on. They are called contributing factors folks.

The premise of the thread is false. It is also interesting to see how unmellow you stoners are when it comes to discussing this issue. It is illegal for good reason. Take your energy and passion using it to end cigarette use and limit alcohol use. That would be far more helpful and productive.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Why are two of the above legal but the one isn't?
- 75000 die a year from alcohol related incidents.
- 0 die a year from Marijuana related incidents.
Why the hell can you drink as much alcohol as you want in America but a person can't smoke a joint without worrying about doing jail time? Simple question, please answer to the point.

What do cigarettes have to do with this? Are you claiming they are also a perception altering substance??

Of course they are. You don't see many people clamoring for Nicotine-less smokes, do you?

Here's how I see the difference:

Alcohol is addictive to the point that addicts are in danger of dying during withdrawal. It impairs the senses and judgment and kills brains cells. It also destroys the liver. You can overdose on alcohol.

Cigarettes are highly addictive and highly carcinogenic to virtually every tissue in the body. Even if you avoid cancer, they destroy lung tissue and your odds of getting COPD are high, which is a progressively fatal condition that will have you in the hospital several times a year for COPD exacerbation until it contributes to your death in some manner or the other.

Pot is not physiologically addictive, impairs the senses and alters judgment. You can't overdose on it, but the long term effects on the body are not well studied/known. There is some evidence to suggest it might trigger schizophrenia in persons who are habitual users who are predispositioned to it.

That's some bullshit-study that (typically) shows-up at the BBC-website.

​

 

[Care4all]

the govt does not have the constitutional powers to make alcohol, cigarettes or marijuana illegal....what they have done, is unconstitutional....they used back door methods to make marijuana illegal....they said it was still legal, but you had to buy a tax stamp to distribute it, then when doctors applied for the tax stamp to prescribe it, the gvt had no tax stamps to purchase....they never printed any....they killed marijuana's legality, over night.

the companies like cocacola and Hearst Paper and the alcohol industry lobbied hard to ban it because marijuana was competition to them....hemp paper, what the original bible text was printed on, was huge competition for Hearst, who owned newspapers and magazines and had just bought huge tracks of forest and a paper company....

On top of this, there was racism....the religious said that marijuana made mexican men rape white women....

HEMP, marijuana, was required BY LAW for every plantation in the south to grow...the colonies needed the rope made from it, to operate their new vessels they were building....Jefferson owned several Hemp plantations.

Please watch the History Channel's, "History of illegal Drugs" documentary.

 

[geauxtohell]

It seems to me that lots of people want to justify their addiction to marijuana by saying it's harmless, or less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes. Simply put, lie to yourselves if you must - take whatever drug you feel inclined to.... but.... don't affect me and mine. I'm sick and tired of my family being impacted by the selfish stupidity of others. You want to affect your brain, body and kill yourselves. Absolutely fine and dandy. Just don't kill someone else while your doing it. Thanks.

Since your drug of choice is alcohol how are you any better? Have you ever driven after drinking any alcohol? Then you have put society in as much danger, if not more, than a pot smoker.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The premise of the thread is false. It is also interesting to see how unmellow you stoners are when it comes to discussing this issue. It is illegal for good reason.

....But, you forgot what that good-reason was....right?


​

 

[geauxtohell]

Would suck to be one of them.

You didn't even get his point do you?

Take a biostats class, or just a statistics class.

 

[geauxtohell]

What do cigarettes have to do with this? Are you claiming they are also a perception altering substance??

Of course they are. You don't see many people clamoring for Nicotine-less smokes, do you?

Here's how I see the difference:

Alcohol is addictive to the point that addicts are in danger of dying during withdrawal. It impairs the senses and judgment and kills brains cells. It also destroys the liver. You can overdose on alcohol.

Cigarettes are highly addictive and highly carcinogenic to virtually every tissue in the body. Even if you avoid cancer, they destroy lung tissue and your odds of getting COPD are high, which is a progressively fatal condition that will have you in the hospital several times a year for COPD exacerbation until it contributes to your death in some manner or the other.

Pot is not physiologically addictive, impairs the senses and alters judgment. You can't overdose on it, but the long term effects on the body are not well studied/known. There is some evidence to suggest it might trigger schizophrenia in persons who are habitual users who are predispositioned to it.

That's some bullshit-study that (typically) shows-up at the BBC-website.

​

They are just reporting the results of a scientific study (n = 523 this time as opposed to 10 on the last study).

Cannabis-induced psychosis and subsequent schizoph... [Br J Psychiatry. 2005] - PubMed result

I'd be inclined to wave it off too, except I just got off a rotation where a patient who was a chronic MJ smoker started to manifest psychosis and other s/s of schizophrenia. I am not sure what the final conclusion was.

My point is this: the effects of chronic MJ use on the body haven't been well studied. It's reasonable to assume that anything that alters the body, like nicotine and ethyl alcohol, will do some sort of damage to people.

That doesn't bother me. People can make their own choices, but it's a little premature to say that MJ is absolutely harmless.