Barstow cops are fucked!

[Billo_Really]

First off, my post #34

Actually, it was post #33.

goes into depth about why she was indeed legally obligated to give her name; but hell lets just go with she was DRIVING.

No, she was not driving. She was standing.

Second, she tried to walk away, which is why the officer put her in cuffs.

The cop told her she had two minutes to confirm he had the right to make the request. He only gave her 20 seconds.

Third, apparently you watched a different video than I did in determining who was crazy...

You saw what you wanted to see.

The white woman assaulted her? Because she asked the woman to slow the fuck down in a school parking lot?

No, because she threatened her and her little girl.

That's a new definition of "assault" in my book. My neighbors put out signs that say "SLOW - children at play" when their grandkids are visiting. Is that assault too? How about when my kids were younger and played hockey in our driveway, I'd stand at the end of the driveway with a huge red flag to slow down people coming around the blind corner. Is that assault too? Or does it only qualify as assault when I yelled at them that the speed limit was 25mph not 50mph?

If you stood out in the middle of the street forcing the car to stop, then go up to the car, slam your hand on the hood and threaten the driver, then yes, that is assault.

Sounds like you've lost sight of what America stands for, and what that officer was there to do to me.

To you?

Why should the first woman (who works with/for those kids) keep her mouth shut about someone driving like a maniac around them?

That's what she alleged, it's not what was proven.

Is that "freedom" in your book? Ignore common sense and endanger kids to "prove a point" in what appears to be a personal disagreement aka road rage situation? Then tell the police to fuck off because you feel like it's your right to put a bunch of innocent uninvolved children at risk?

These are hypotheticals. Not what actually occurred.

Maybe you need to evaluate the context of the "American Values" you are actually supporting here...

One of our American values is that a person is presumed innocent, until proven guilty. How have you demonstrated that value in regards to the black woman?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

You said it was a Bette Midler song. It isn't.

You dumbass.

All I know, is she sang that song, that's what I was referring to. Is it wrong for me to say, "I like The Who's Summertime Blues song", because Eddie Cochran happened to write it?

Best you not lampoon other people's music when you don't know what the hell you're talking about to avoid future embarrassment.

 

[OZman]

No crime was commited, the officer admitted this fact, therefore the woman was within her rights to refuse giving her full details.

This is a universal problem and is not confined to the U.S.A.

It really depends on the state one is in. 22 states require a person to produce identification or name and address when asked for said info by a law enforcement officer.

Evidently it is not required in California, and as such the officer overstepped his authority. This whole episode was being handled well by the officer until the word "white" was used. This seemed to me, to outrage the officer, and lead to his overreaction.

California law cant supercede federal law.

And under federal SCOTUS ruling Terry v. Ohio...a person must identify themselves if they are part of an investigation of a "POSSIBLE" but not yet confirmed crime.

Did a crime POSSIBLY occur? Yes. She may have attempted to vandalize the womans car. She may have committed a violation of laws governing school property behavior.

Was the crime confirmed? Well...the cop was trying to by INVESTIGATING it. It looked like his hunch was there wouldnt be charges.

If anything. ..his investigation was going to simply confirm no crime occurred.

But that bitch had to "Keep It Real" and act like ghetto trash.

Yes the woman did overreact as well, but the officer could have defused the encounter with a more moderate approach.

We cannot have a civilized society where it is ok to simply refuse the requests of law enforcement while conducting their lawful duties.
What's worse, the line dividing civilized and anarchist blurs when citizens are excused when they use physical force to interfere or resist a legal and proper police investigation..

Tell that to the judge who dismissed the charges.

If you consider grown men throwing pregnant women to the ground "civilized" then we will never agree on this matter.

 

[Billo_Really]

Best you not lampoon other people's music when you don't know what the hell you're talking about to avoid future embarrassment.

Oh, I know what I was talking about and it wasn't this bullshit you're spewing. You're doing everything you can to make this about me, because you don't have the fuckin' balls to talk about the real issue that we now live in a totalitarian police state where the cops can do anything they please to anybody.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Best you not lampoon other people's music when you don't know what the hell you're talking about to avoid future embarrassment.

Oh, I know what I was talking about and it wasn't this bullshit you're spewing. You're doing everything you can to make this about me, because you don't have the fuckin' balls to talk about the real issue that we now live in a totalitarian police state where the cops can do anything they please to anybody.

It became about you when you idiotically implied that Bette Midler was the author of that song. And now you idiotically accuse others of not discussing the issue when you were the one who sidetracked.

 

[MikeK]

Ah yes, the highly corrupt and criminal associated Teamsters... such a great "role model" of "workers rights" and unions... They are a political operation from top to bottom, raiding "enemy" unions in order to control everything, and they heavily participated in organized crime from at least the 1950's until what 2006? (what's been "found out" anyway) They /might/ have straightened up their organized crime roots, but they've turned instead to using the federal government to hold back their competition - (Buried Bailout Brown Bailout

While I really don't know how much of your anti-union protest and condemnations are wholly accurate and valid I hasten to say, as I've previously offered, contemporary unions are not without warts. Some really big and ugly ones. And there is no question that federal action should be taken to eliminate them. But the best thing to be said about this issue is it is imperative to avoid tossing out the baby with the bath-water.

I urge you to avoid accentuating the negative while ignoring the positive. Because there is no question that without the union movement there would be no American Middle Class and all American workers would be in a similar position to WalMart's employees -- only much worse because there would be no 40-hour week, or paid vacations, or any of the existing, federally protected benefits that would not exist if the union movement did not initiate them.

 

[MikeK]

Watching COPS can be very educational if one is interested in observing the orientation and the typical forms of police behavior of police in various parts of America. Otherwise it can be rather repetitious

It isn't typical. We did some Super Troopers shit when I was a cop, but nothing like I see other cops doing on that show. Assuming all cops are the same is low brow, even for you.

I will agree that some aspects of the police behaviors seen in the COPS reality documentary are not universal, but they certainly do appear to be typical -- with specific reference to the clearly excessive "GET ON THE GROUND" take-downs. While there is no question that such conduct is sometimes necessary there clearly are more occasions when it is absolutely uncalled for -- and in some instances, plainly brutal!

I'm also referring to this:

"Driver! With your left hand, open the door!"

"Step out of the car!"

"Put your hands behind your head and interlace your fingers!"

"Face away from my voice!"

"Now walk backward!"

"Stop!"

"Get on your knees!"

"Lie face down!"

"Arms out to the side!"

Whether or not this exercise in authoritarian masturbation is in accordance with "procedure," unless it is conducted during the apprehension of a known, well-armed, homicidally violent subject, it takes place often enough to be regarded as typical -- as well as unnecessary.

Equally typical is the forcing down of a clearly submissive subject and the piling on by half-a-dozen vigorously aggressive cops, twisting his arms with unnecessary force while applying handcuffs, with a knee grinding his face into dirt or onto pavement. While sometimes this kind of forceful exercise is necessary, more often than not it is nothing but a legitimized form of excessive force.

And it is damn typical!

 

[EverCurious]

Ah yes, the highly corrupt and criminal associated Teamsters... such a great "role model" of "workers rights" and unions... They are a political operation from top to bottom, raiding "enemy" unions in order to control everything, and they heavily participated in organized crime from at least the 1950's until what 2006? (what's been "found out" anyway) They /might/ have straightened up their organized crime roots, but they've turned instead to using the federal government to hold back their competition - (Buried Bailout Brown Bailout

While I really don't know how much of your anti-union protest and condemnations are wholly accurate and valid I hasten to say, as I've previously offered, contemporary unions are not without warts. Some really big and ugly ones. And there is no question that federal action should be taken to eliminate them. But the best thing to be said about this issue is it is imperative to avoid tossing out the baby with the bath-water.

I urge you to avoid accentuating the negative while ignoring the positive. Because there is no question that without the union movement there would be no American Middle Class and all American workers would be in a similar position to WalMart's employees -- only much worse because there would be no 40-hour week, or paid vacations, or any of the existing, federally protected benefits that would not exist if the union movement did not initiate them.

I think I gave them credit where it was due. They /were/ a necessity to move forward in a proper business ethics, however, they have since crossed the line becoming just as greedy as the businesses they were founded to "police." The government, and thus the people, recognized and passed laws to "police" those businesses that were acting improperly, the unions however press for unsustainable and unreasonable business practices that are harming our economy, our job market viability, and the very people they supposedly work for.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Best you not lampoon other people's music when you don't know what the hell you're talking about to avoid future embarrassment.

Oh, I know what I was talking about and it wasn't this bullshit you're spewing. You're doing everything you can to make this about me, because you don't have the fuckin' balls to talk about the real issue that we now live in a totalitarian police state where the cops can do anything they please to anybody.

You're gonna hurt yourself if you keep backpedaling like that!

 

[jillian]

Fuck you, you racist fucking pricks!





no


Fuck Barstow cops!

This country is becoming Nazi Germany.

no.

Fuck you, you racist fucking pricks!





Fuck Barstow cops!

This country is becoming Nazi Germany.

 

[MikeK]

I think I gave them credit where it was due. They /were/ a necessity to move forward in a proper business ethics, however, they have since crossed the line becoming just as greedy as the businesses they were founded to "police." The government, and thus the people, recognized and passed laws to "police" those businesses that were acting improperly, the unions however press for unsustainable and unreasonable business practices that are harming our economy, our job market viability, and the very people they supposedly work for.

So let's say we eliminate all unions. What do you think would come of that? (Aside from the gratitude of the Walton family, and others, for ridding them of a pestering annoyance.)

 

[thereisnospoon]

What's your point?
If we lose our ability to punish those who knowingly and blatantly violate our laws, we lose any ties to civility.
Simply put, one cannot "do whatever they want".....If a person violates the community, they can expect sanctions for doing so.

Think about it. We have a "for-profit" prison industry. That means they must have a certain level of inmates to make a profit for their investment. That stands in stark contrast to a country based on the rule of law.

I'm not going to discuss conspiracy theories

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I think I gave them credit where it was due. They /were/ a necessity to move forward in a proper business ethics, however, they have since crossed the line becoming just as greedy as the businesses they were founded to "police." The government, and thus the people, recognized and passed laws to "police" those businesses that were acting improperly, the unions however press for unsustainable and unreasonable business practices that are harming our economy, our job market viability, and the very people they supposedly work for.

So let's say we eliminate all unions. What do you think would come of that? (Aside from the gratitude of the Walton family, and others, for ridding them of a pestering annoyance.)

Fewer Democrats.

 

[MikeK]

How many times should they have to tell her? He said flat out that she needed to give him her full name at least twice. Then after she tried to walk away, they told her at least three times to stop resisting /before/ taking her to the ground, then they told her at least three times to get in the car, before dragging her ass into the seat. It wouldn't have mattered what they said anyway, she wasn't listening...

She started the conversation, yelling about the incident from across the parking lot before the officer even got there to ask her shit, then when the officer made a SIMPLE request for her fucking name, she turned around and decided that the police were "harassing" her. Its absolutely ridiculous...

I wish to make it clear I am not on the woman's side in this dispute, nor am I interested in peeling a legal onion as to whether or not her actions called for her being arrested. My dispute is not the fact that the cops arrested her but rather the way they effected the arrest.

I am sure if the wife of one of those cops was eight months pregnant, and if she committed some minor offense, and if the two male cops who arrested her took her down onto her belly to cuff her, the cop/husband would want to take a nightstick to those two incompetent goons -- and he'd be right.

I will repeat what I said earlier, if two male cops are incapable of cuffing a pregnant woman without putting her down on her swollen belly they don't belong on the job!

When your only tool is a hammer you tend to treat every problem like a nail.

 

[MikeK]

Watching COPS can be very educational if one is interested in observing the orientation and the typical forms of police behavior of police in various parts of America. Otherwise it can be rather repetitious

It isn't typical. We did some Super Troopers shit when I was a cop, but nothing like I see other cops doing on that show. Assuming all cops are the same is low brow, even for you.

It doesn't call for malfeasance on the part of "all cops" to provoke the kind of anti-police atmosphere we are witnessing today. All it takes is a conspicuous trend, which, thanks to the proliferation of video-recording devices, has clearly emerged in recent years.

The general public is getting a much closer look at police misconduct than they've ever had before and they are not seeing faces and reading names. They are seeing uniforms and badges.

 

[MikeK]

I used to watch cops for entertainment when I was a kid. Now I can't watch that show without screaming at the TV. I'd say that's a good political evolution. I see it too. It especially pissed me off when a cop informed a suspect that their car now belonged to their sheriff's department. Asset forfeiture works against the citizen so efficiently it can be assumed right on the streets by any cop.

I know exactly how you feel with regard to asset forfeiture and it infuriates me, too. It is one of the most evil aspects of the drug war, which is not only wholly ineffective and wasteful but is broadly counterproductive. The drug war has given rise to a Law-enforcement Industrial Complex which has transformed our civilian police into a para-military strike force which is preoccupied with drug interdiction and prison construction.

 

[OnePercenter]

Both women should be arrested for wasting my tax money.

 

[OnePercenter]

I know exactly how you feel with regard to asset forfeiture and it infuriates me, too. It is one of the most evil aspects of the drug war, which is not only wholly ineffective and wasteful but is broadly counterproductive. The drug war has given rise to a Law-enforcement Industrial Complex which has transformed our civilian police into a para-military strike force which is preoccupied with drug interdiction and prison construction.

You mean a couple transporting tens of thousands of dollars to buy 'restaurant equipment?' Sure.

I'll bet you're a Libertarian.

 

[MikeK]

You mean a couple transporting tens of thousands of dollars to buy 'restaurant equipment?' Sure.

I mean the so-called War On Drugs is a complete farce which serves no interests other than those of the oppressive Law Enforcement Complex it's given birth to and nourishes along with a few corporate profiteers.

The War On Drugs has done absolutely nothing to reduce access to and use of recreational drugs. Nothing. Illegal drugs are as readily available today as they were on the day the puppet, Reagan escalated Nixon's stupid mistake by giving rise to another Prohibition.

It doesn't take a Mensa-level IQ to realize the War On Drugs is a monstrously wasteful, seriously counterproductive social deficit in many ways. The use of harmful and addictive drugs is a medical problem, not a law-enforcement objective -- and that should be obvious to anyone with a functional brain. Public education is the way to approach the problem -- not goons with badges. Public education is the way the use of cigarettes, the most addictive and insidiously destructive of all drugs, has been substantially eliminated without arresting a single individual.

I'll bet you're a Libertarian.

And you'd lose that bet.

I'm essentially a Socialist. But I do espouse some Libertarian ideals.

 

[OnePercenter]

And you'd lose that bet.

I'm essentially a Socialist. But I do espouse some Libertarian ideals.

Your 'Rainbows and Unicorn' rant makes you sound full-blow Libertarian.